Photo #33350: Papilio hipponous

26.09.2014 19:58, Alex Dumchus

Clearly not Helenus! Looking at mine (Vietnam, China, The Philippines, Thailand, Taiwan, Indonesia), they all have this back spot ending on the third vein, all save hystaspes which does on the fourth.

26.09.2014 11:29, Dmitriy Pozhogin

Sumatra ssp. is called enganius. No difference between this and ones from Java or Kalimantan. How it's possible to tell region by pic??? Your expert confused something. helenus fairly has different hindwing bands and never does yellow wedge on forewings. Not helenus it is. This is Papilio hipponous.

26.09.2014 10:36, Yuri Semejkin

One more point of view here. I've sent this to Y. A. Chistyakov, Institute of Biology and Soil Science, FEB RAS. His version: "Yury, this is most likely Papilio helenus, one of its subspecies, and one in you pic is clearly from Sumatra. Can't remember the precise name of ssp."

20.09.2014 12:58, Irina Nikulina

The chief of the Butterfly House said they surely didn't have P. pitmani, only P. hipponous and Р. polytes. So the ID is right) Bit later about the original stuff.

18.09.2014 1:16, Peter Khramov

Dmitry, you're right. Corrected.

18.09.2014 1:16, Peter Khramov Corrected data.

Dmitriy Pozhogin → Alex Dumchus.

18.09.2014 1:14, Irina Nikulina

Sasha, mine Tortricidae are waiting for you much)) They do want to get moved somewhere))

18.09.2014 1:03, Alexandr Zhakov

So you're having fun, I want to move as well :)))

18.09.2014 1:03, Dmitriy Pozhogin

If not hipponous but turns out pitmani, please ask for male as well. Nothing of pitmani at all!!! Will prepare that and check.

18.09.2014 1:02, Vasiliy Feoktistov

Oh, that's going :) Imho enough for moving :)

18.09.2014 1:00, Irina Nikulina

Yeah, well understood, I shifted responsibility to men))) Keeping myself safe from being "the opposite" to "hero and fine")))
Dmitry, I'll ask about specimen's body, as I got right, any female of the species even not hipponous?

18.09.2014 0:55, Alexandr Zhakov

According to the algorithm that was Alexandr Dumchus. :)))
Irina with 3rd version, Alexandr offered 1 not surely, Dmitry was sure.
Should have two fields, the identifier and who confirmed first :))) Then they share the responsibility :)))

18.09.2014 0:47, Peter Khramov

You can check the algorithm of naming the identifier by Irina's link below. The difference is easy, who was named identifier would become most responsible. If ID was right, so he/she is hero and fine. If not, the opposite.

18.09.2014 0:46, Dmitriy Pozhogin

Irina offered 3 for ID. Alexandr even not surely chose one, the right. I just supported his guess.

18.09.2014 0:44, Dmitriy Pozhogin

Is it possible to ask for this specimen's body, to science? Couldn't find anywhere female genitalia of this species.

18.09.2014 0:37, Irina Nikulina

I'll torture him near days for sure, couldn't reach by phone today. Very curious about the final diagnosis))

18.09.2014 0:36, Vasiliy Feoktistov

Dmitry, I agree. Can't object :) It does matter for me and moving who first said Papilio hipponous whilst you and Alexandr just upheld the thought. This is my algorithm of moving. Seems here anyway some special and not obvious rules rule:)

18.09.2014 0:31, Dmitriy Pozhogin

If to be precise to the end, butterfly houses get 99% Asian leps from the Philippines, so this should be hipponous. But if the original stuff (pupae) were from Thailand, this is Papilio pitmani Elwes & de Niceville,[1887]. Matters where the pupae are from. Cool anyway even if this one is Papilio hipponous.

18.09.2014 0:24, Dmitriy Pozhogin

Kindergarten indeed. Does it really matter who identified? Then it was Alexandr Dumchus.

18.09.2014 0:01, Vasiliy Feoktistov

OK. No argue with such a switch :)

17.09.2014 23:56, Peter Khramov Corrected data.

Irina Nikulina → Dmitriy Pozhogin.

17.09.2014 23:46, Irina Nikulina

Can't agree) If follow the algorithm Petr offered http://lepidoptera.pro/gallery/30976, then Dmitry is the author to note) It's already a pleasure for me not to fail in the family not quite known to me and to have a right guess) I leaned more to that one. (Also I checked the link below, didn't get what's not good with Nematopogon)

17.09.2014 23:27, Vasiliy Feoktistov

I noted Irina as identifier as she was first who proposed.

17.09.2014 23:23, Vasiliy Feoktistov Corrected data.

Not identified → Papilio hipponous / Confidently identified / Irina Nikulina.

17.09.2014 23:23, Vasiliy Feoktistov Corrected data.

Imago → Female.

17.09.2014 23:18, Dmitriy Pozhogin

hipponous female tentatively identified

17.09.2014 20:43, Vasiliy Feoktistov

Nearly no chance to get underside. To tentatively identified or wait?

17.09.2014 20:34, Dmitriy Pozhogin

hipponous female. Underside needed for 100% sure.

17.09.2014 20:24, Alex Dumchus

As Irina said right, It's most likely P.hipponous. Red eyespots are confusing, that's all. Mine of the collection don't have front eyespots, they're all males though. This looks female. Not polytes at least, I checked all mine, both collected myself and got from somewhere, don't look like. This marvel doesn't look any other else in Southeast Asia.
Not a rare species (quite rare compared to polytes) but isn't often to be raised. Here's something to check out: http://swallowtails.net/P_hipponous.htm

17.09.2014 5:05, Vasiliy Feoktistov

First I was confused with these yellow "wedges" in its forewings(
Bad butterfly houses usually have "just some leps", no any original data, here could be very helpful imho.

16.09.2014 22:24, Irina Nikulina

Took that already, no this species anywhere for some reason. The only one of those Yury shot stays undetermined) Can be some рolytes subspecies... Also considered Papilio hipponous and Papilio prexaspes duboisi, this is a task for Dmitry and Alexandr Dumchus though) Easier to ask the very chief of the Butterfly House in Vladivostok, we'll do if doesn't get identified.

16.09.2014 14:07, Peter Khramov

Butterfly houses often have same species, maybe this could be a clue...

16.09.2014 6:45, Vasiliy Feoktistov

Cautious guess with a small probability, Papilio polytes ??
Is its origin unknown, isn't? I think proved location could help......