Where can I catch a deer beetle?

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SVV, 17.05.2006 17:03

Not exactly about the butterfly... Where is the closest place to Moscow to catch a deer beetle (Lucanus cervus)?

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17.05.2006 17:17, Helene

Not exactly about the butterfly... Where is the closest place to Moscow to catch a deer beetle (Lucanus cervus)?

Interesting question...
Actually, I have information about the discovery of a deer beetle right in Moscow, in the Kuzminsky forest Park. This is an oral report from a non-entomologist (the chief accountant of my firm). The bug ended up in a picnic basket and was released, because the person did not know how interesting it was. Gusakov at the Moscow State University Zoo Museum doesn't want to hear about the northern finds of Cervus (he doesn't believe them, he says that the Munchausens are fucked up)... And I take this message seriously. First of all, I know the girl well: she is not one of the dreamers. Secondly, there was simply no point for her to fantasize - because she didn't know that the deer beetle is basically absent in Moscow. To her, it was just a huge, beautiful beetle...
In addition, there are real (confirmed by collections) beetle finds all the way to the Leningrad region, there are such refugiums of broad-leaved forests with southerners...
So look for it, maybe you'll be lucky enough to make a discovery!

And as for reliable places, there are definitely some in the Central Chernozem Region (I've seen quite intense growth in the Voronezh Region, and there should also be at least one in the Kursk, Belgorod, and Tambov regions).

18.05.2006 13:20, Dmitry Vlasov

In the 60s, it seems to have lived in the PTZ, this is information from the late N. N. Dubrovin, an entomologist from the Department of Moscow State University. But N. B. Nikitsky (ZMMSU) did not see any copies from there and doubts the point. I have a copy from the Yaroslavl region. I didn't catch it myself, they brought it... But caught the biologist and "gives a tooth" that did not bring...
What is noteworthy - the male is small -38 mm. And the place - the village of Dubki, where there was (and is) an oak grove from time immemorial. True, there is a "piece of iron" nearby, and the beetle could have reached the "hare"... And there are a lot of legends about the capture of deer beetles in the Yar region, but I don't know more labelled specimens. But some "authors" when using "third-level torture", do not know the differences between a rhinoceros beetle and a deer beetle and take the first for the second...

18.05.2006 14:45, SVV

I've read somewhere about the correlation with the size of oak trees, but the smaller size to the north is a controversial theory. In the Caucasian populations of cervus beetles are also small

I am also very grateful for highlighting the topic

It is also interesting, by the way, that in most sources the maximum size of the beetle is indicated in the region of 75 mm, but I myself have a male of about 80 mm in the collection, it is reliably known that there are specimens of both 85 and 87 mm and maybe even more! By the way, in the Zoo Museum in Moscow, a copy of the cervus on the stand "Intraspecific variability" is clearly more than 80 mm
. By the way, I wrote about this fact on the site "Beetles and Coleopterologists", but no one explained this confusion with the size to me.

18.05.2006 14:56, Helene

It is also interesting, by the way, that in most sources the maximum size of the beetle is indicated in the region of 75 mm, but I myself have a male of about 80 mm in the collection, it is reliably known that there are specimens of both 85 and 87 mm and maybe even more! By the way, in the Zoo Museum in Moscow, a copy of the cervus on the stand "Intraspecific variability" is clearly more than 80 mm
. By the way, I wrote about this fact on the site "Beetles and Coleopterologists", but no one explained this confusion with the size to me.

In general, most often the determinants do not take into account deviations from the norm. That is, if the size of more than 80 mm is rare and can be attributed to aberrations, then it does not go into the determinant.
In some species of insects, extreme size occurs regularly, especially when the population density is high. But the determinants are still the size that occurs en masse, i.e. characteristic of the species.

19.05.2006 13:18, Dmitry Vlasov

In the north of the oak range (north of the Moscow region), there are almost no upland oak forests, and floodplain forests are common. This is probably due to the destruction of them in the pastures, and later there were either agrocenoses or small-leaved ones... And in the floodplains, the oak tree has been preserved, firstly, because of its clumsiness, hollowness, and secondly, it can withstand prolonged (more than a month) flooding. Other breeds are dying here... Such large (by northern standards-20 sq. km) oak forests were in the Mologa and Sheksny interfluves. where now splashes Rybinsk "vodognoilishche".
Probably the absence of the stag beetle in the north is due not only to its "thermophilic" nature, but also to the fact that it is a very rare species. that it develops in the roots and stumps of oak trees. and, perhaps, it dies during spring floods of rivers. I.e., it is necessary to look for a deer beetle in the surviving marble oak forests.

19.05.2006 13:29, Helene

In the north of the oak range (north of the Moscow region), there are almost no upland oak forests, and floodplain forests are common. This is probably due to the destruction of them on the fences......

Not a fact. Everything is much more complicated. Currently, at the longitude of the Central European part of Russia, the zone of broad-leaved forests is reduced (but in the Bryansk region and to the west - there is). And what is here from the anthropogane, and what - from natural factors, we still need to understand.
Autochthonous oak forests are found in large numbers only in the south, in the forest-steppe.

PS And with the "surviving plakor oak forests" in historically inhabited areas, such an ambush often awaits: oaks turn out to be planted. There was once a noble nest in the twentieth century and earlier, then the proletariat dismantled the estate for bricks, even traces of the structure did not remain... and the park has gone wild and turned into a forest

, so it's not harmful to know and keep in mind local history information.
A symptom of non-autochthonous oak forests: the oaks are gorgeous, but there is no oak fauna. This happens all the time.

This post was edited by Helene - 05/19/2006 13: 34

19.05.2006 14:16, Dmitry Vlasov

In the floodplain oak forests along the Volga, oak fauna is present, although it is depleted - oak sapwood (bark beetle), oak narrow-bodied golden beetles.
Then the feral park can still be identified, the remains of alleys can be seen, even if everything is overgrown with nonsense. Moreover, the noble nests in our province appeared somewhere in the beginning of the XIX century. Here you still need to distinguish (which is much more difficult) a park planted in a "bare" place, i.e. the forest (small-leaved or coniferous) was reduced to the root and then planted broad-leaved species, or "ennobled" by cutting down part of the oak forest and turning it into a park. In terms of fauna, it will be similar to the autochthonous one...

21.06.2006 11:45, дон Мигель

Hello, people.
I saw deer beetles in Moscow and in the Vladimir region.
In Moscow, it was a very long time ago, in the very beginning of the 80's, I was, although turned on animals, but still a small man. The insect found on a walk in the newly built neighborhood was identified as a female deer beetle.

However, there may be a mistake here.

But here there can be no mistake. Vladimir region, Kolchuginsky district, a village of two dozen houses. There are forests all around, including several old oak forests. There are several oak trees in the village of Doge. A large beetle unsuccessfully fitted into the chain-link netting and, losing its balance, landed on the veranda. What was my surprise when I discovered that it was a deer, young, apparently with small jaws, with only one process.

I sat out a little and left. On foot.
And the men a couple of years earlier told about meeting with a beetle with big horns, sitting on a dung heap. I became interested. I showed them the barbel tanners and other large beetles, but they clearly pointed to the picture of a deer and the head of this beetle, kept in my collection.

17.01.2007 10:01, Aleksandr Safronov

In the Tula region, Lucanus cervus is absent with a probability of 99.9% (itself from Tula), despite the presence of forests, including old oak forests. At least, I don't know any finds even from the southern regions of the region. I agree that the total annual temperature plays an important role here.
I have copies from the Belgorod, Voronezh, and Volgograd regions.
Moreover, in the Voronezh Region, beetles were found in sufficient numbers in a small oak plantation adjacent to the Federal Highway, on the other side of the landing - a collective farm field (mid-June). So much for the impact of anthropogenic factors.
In the Volgograd region, adult activity was observed from mid-June to mid-July.
Question to all forum participants – has anyone ever come across a bilateral or mosaic ginandromorph Lucanus cervus? Or maybe you saw it in collections?