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Strange parasitism or symbiosis

Community and ForumInsects biology and faunisticsStrange parasitism or symbiosis

Игорь обыватель, 13.07.2019 19:53

I appeal to specialists in wasps. I am a philistine in my own right, and I apologize in advance for my dilettantism.
The fact is that for a month I have been observing a strange picture at a dacha in the Moscow region. In the gap between the boards, the wasps made a nest for themselves. The wasps don't look quite ordinary. Thinner than ordinary ones, the head seems slightly larger than that of ordinary ones. The length is the same. The wasps recycle the wood and push the wood dust out...
They periodically bring with them flies of the same species (lean, gray, with a striped belly) - only once I saw a green one. The oddity lies in the fact that later, next to the entrance to these cracks, I observe the same" dazed " flies, which not only do not hurry to fly away, but crawl around and somehow try to lay their larvae in the tree. Another interesting thing is that flies do not lose their ability to fly. I watched as a fly of the same species arrived, crawling backwards back into the same slot... I've read that some types of wasps "zombie" cockroaches or caterpillars, but not flies. Once again, it is important that flies of the same species can, but do not rush to fly, if they fly away, they come and crawl back to the wasps.
If someone is interested, I will write in more detail and share the information.

Comments

13.07.2019 20:43, Hierophis

Not an expert on wasps, but.. pictures here would not hurt both specialists and non specialists)
Based on the above, we can assume that your wasps belong to the sem. Crabronidae, among them there are those that build nests in wood, they carry flies to the larvae for food.
And the flies that crawl around the nests belong to other species, they want to lay their larvae, which are not parasites, but inquilins for wasps, the larvae of these flies then eat both the prey and the wasp larva itself. For more detailed information-you need photos of wasps, flies and nests..

13.07.2019 20:46, Игорь обыватель

I can't download it from my phone... But the wasps carry flies of exactly the same species (except for one). I can send photos to your email address.

13.07.2019 21:00, Игорь обыватель

Here's the wasp

Pictures:
IMG_20190713_201049.jpg
IMG_20190713_201049.jpg — (2.16 mb)

13.07.2019 21:02, Игорь обыватель

Here's a fly

Pictures:
IMG_20190713_182841.jpg
IMG_20190713_182841.jpg — (3.33 mb)

13.07.2019 21:48, Hierophis

But the wasps carry flies of exactly the same species (except for one). I can send photos to your email address.

So I did not write that wasps drag flies of different types, just surprisingly, one of the flies brought by the wasps turned out to be different. But I don't really know about these wasps, how much narrow limits they have when searching for food for larvae.
I wrote that most likely flies of a different species enter the mink.
According to the photos, it is clear that this is a wasp from the family. Crabronidae, and some fly I don't know at all) I also don't know if it can be so that the same flies that the wasps catch lay something in the nests of the same wasps, it somehow looks wild smile.gif

It remains for you to take a closer look or take a picture of the flies that the wasps carry, for this you can select one fly, and compare it with those that climb near the minks.

13.07.2019 21:59, Игорь обыватель

They look the same... That's what I'm interested in. It seems that flies perform some function under the influence of wasps. As for the other fly, I observed 20 of these striped ones as victims, and only one green one.

14.07.2019 0:19, ИНО

It's a thankless task to determine crabronidus from such a photo, but it seems to be either Lestica or Ectemnius. If it carries flies, then the second is more likely.

14.07.2019 0:35, ИНО

Ah, a fly, it looks like, here-such, or another close view. The larvae feed on flies, including their own parents. So "wild" has the right to live.

This post was edited by ENO-14.07.2019 00: 36

14.07.2019 9:32, Игорь обыватель

That is, what happens? The wasp drags this fly to feed its larvae. At the same time, at least the same species, or even these flies themselves, if they did not have time to devour them, "catching their breath", want to lay their larvae in the bodies of their less fortunate colleagues in the same nest?

14.07.2019 10:13, Hierophis

Well, if according to the new version, then yes.
You can try to compare, select a fly from a wasp, just catch the wasp in an aquarium net or somewhere else, and the wasp will throw the fly away.
Then catch a fly that is circling near the entrance to the nest, and compare them.

14.07.2019 13:47, ИНО

14.07.2019 13:50, Игорь обыватель

Here is a fly flying near the nest

Pictures:
IMG_20190714_134353.jpg
IMG_20190714_134353.jpg — (2.08мб)

14.07.2019 13:53, Игорь обыватель

Here it is

Pictures:
IMG_20190714_134411.jpg
IMG_20190714_134411.jpg — (2.63мб)

14.07.2019 14:24, Игорь обыватель

And here is the victim of the wasp next to the one who tries to climb into the nests. Darker - brought by a wasp.
I probably made a mistake, because it looks different. The only thing is that the abdomen is also striped.
They're different flies, aren't they?

Pictures:
IMG_20190714_141902.jpg
IMG_20190714_141902.jpg — (1.23мб)

IMG_20190714_141727.jpg
IMG_20190714_141727.jpg — (1014.23к)

14.07.2019 17:24, Hierophis

Well, the miracle did not happen, the flies seem to be completely different, the wasps get flies of the same species, and other flies are spinning around the cracks.
By the way, the thinning tip of the abdomen is a characteristic device for spot laying eggs in all sorts of minks and crevices.
In the nests of catamenes, too, such flies are hatched, and the wasp is also hatched, because the fly lays only one or two eggs in the nest. Which is logical, because if there are a lot of fly larvae, they will devour all the caterpillars and even the wasp larva, and a live wasp is probably their only chance to get out in the trail. year)))

14.07.2019 20:16, ИНО

Oh, this picture is much better! The left fly is Macronychia sp., possibly M. striginervis, which is known as an ectemnius incivline. The license looks like Pollenia sp. So nothing fundamentally new for science. It's a pity - there was such a wonderful hypothesis...

14.07.2019 21:32, Игорь обыватель

Are you talking about the left one in the first picture or the second one?
By the way, I put them both back in the slot, I wonder who gets eaten first... However, I won't be able to get an answer until Friday or Saturday.

14.07.2019 22:01, ИНО

On the first. They won't eat anyone, they don't hunt in their nests.

28.07.2019 9:14, Игорь обыватель

The story turned out to be unfinished...
Below are pictures of flies, which are also brought by wasps. After all, they carry as victims the same ones who then use wasp larvae as victims.
They look very similar:

28.07.2019 9:17, Игорь обыватель

Here:

Pictures:
IMG_20190728_090319.jpg
IMG_20190728_090319.jpg — (1.44 mb)

IMG_20190728_090251.jpg
IMG_20190728_090251.jpg — (1.16 mb)

IMG_20190728_090204.jpg
IMG_20190728_090204.jpg — (1.32мб)

28.07.2019 9:47, Игорь обыватель

Still, I don't know if they're different flies or not. Except the size is very similar...

Pictures:
IMG_20190728_094246.jpg
IMG_20190728_094246.jpg — (1.38мб)

IMG_20190728_094327.jpg
IMG_20190728_094327.jpg — (1.46мб)

28.07.2019 14:33, ИНО

The pig looks like a hedgehog, but it doesn't have the same skin. The flies are very different, although now they are closer - from the same family Sarcophagidae.

28.07.2019 15:39, Hierophis

From flies in the message 14.07.2019 14: 24 here it seems only "victim" is different. And the other fly is the same like. Your wasps carry cfvs[ different flies, given the case of the green fly earlier, this is already interesting)

28.07.2019 15:51, Игорь обыватель

That is, different taste preferences are not the norm?
Here is that fly-victim, although it is similar to the previous one, but its eyes are much smaller, its body is more elongated,and its stripes are more pronounced. That is, if they are different, then at least I see three types for a snack for wasps.

28.07.2019 17:45, Игорь обыватель

This is the greenish victim. Color reproduction may be somewhat lame...

Pictures:
IMG_20190728_174222.jpg
IMG_20190728_174222.jpg — (1.28мб)

28.07.2019 17:51, ИНО

I even see four types: three victims from two families and one inquilin. The fact that the victims are different is quite normal, wasps are not experts in fly taxonomy, and this question is indifferent to them. But these inkivlins don't seem to be caught on principle, because they can give birth in the nest even if they are pinched. Apparently, the wasps have developed a protective instinct in this case.

28.07.2019 18:04, ИНО

Oh, this seems to be the third family-Calliphoridae
is similar to Protophormia terraenovae, but with this image quality, this is only a tentative guess.

28.07.2019 19:30, Игорь обыватель

Yes, that's right. Three types of victims. And one type of inquilin.

28.07.2019 20:02, ИНО

No, together with the blue one, there are already four types of victims.

28.07.2019 21:26, Игорь обыватель

I must have been confused: there are two flies in the penultimate photo: the big one is a victim, and the smaller one is an inquilin. It's the same look I took a picture of a week ago. Just a little more dazed.

28.07.2019 22:09, ИНО

There you have a series of pictures with one fly on each, so-it is a different kind than the one that lies next to inquilin.

28.07.2019 22:32, Игорь обыватель

If you're talking about today's pictures, it's the same thing. I first took the victim away, photographed him, then put Inquilin next to her.

28.07.2019 23:33, ИНО

Are you trying to mislead me, or are you confused? In the pictures "IMG_20190728_090204.jpg" and "IMG_20190728_094246.jpg" - different flies.

29.07.2019 0:22, Игорь обыватель

On 204 and 246 (top) the same fly. And on 246 under it inquilin. I was filming this morning. Just on 204 it still lies with the whole wing.

29.07.2019 1:02, ИНО

Yeah, and her belly was repainted lol.gifPay attention to the differences in patterns on it.

This post was edited by ENO-29.07.2019 01: 05

29.07.2019 9:24, Игорь обыватель

Are you sure you're talking about 246 and 204? The pattern is the same: alternating gray with black.

29.07.2019 9:25, Игорь обыватель

On 246, there is still an inquilin under the victim. You're not talking about him?

30.07.2019 17:21, ИНО

Well, almost all sarcophagi have an alternation of gray and black, but pay attention to the nature of this alternation and the ratio of areas of both colors.

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