Space Butterfly

as far as I know, something similar, but on aquatic crustaceans, was prepared together with the Japanese and Viktor Rostislavovich Alekseev from Zool. inst. РАН (http://www.zin.ru/labs/freshwater/staff_main.htm)

).
What I wanted to ask:
1) What are the best types of pupae to use, and where can I get them? While the flight is planned for the autumn months, but changes are possible.
2) Could anyone advise on some of the issues of this experiment?

I read your project with interest
I'll try to give you some tips
10 pupae is very very small for statistically correct results.
Although it is clear that the weight and size of the container are strictly limited - still delivery to orbit
Then, pupae of diurnal species (nymphlids, whiteflies), which are planned to be sent, develop rapidly (on average 10-15 days). And it is likely that when they return to earth, the container will no longer contain pupae, but dead, shriveled, ugly butterflies.
I think that when choosing species, you should focus on sailboats that diapause in pupae (swallowtail, polyxena, etc.) or dissimilar ones such as hawkmoth, saturnia, and scoop. At the same time, it should be taken into account that many of them have large pupae and 5 pieces will not fit in a matchbox.
Therefore, I propose to launch into space non-diapausing pupae of the common yazykana, they are small, they develop for 3-4 weeks. The result will not have to wait long, as in the case of diapausing species. There are also suitable species among the saturnias.
If anything, I can help you purchase the material

In my humble opinion, the main selection criterion is the viability of pupae. For example, the same hawk moth is very whimsical to the conditions in which the pupa is located... It will be very unpleasant if every single pupa dies.

The pupae of polyxena are small. 10 pieces will come in easily. In addition, they are suitable for the timing of development, if the landing is planned in the fall.
But the cleanliness of the experiment can be affected by the excess humidity during transportation to the launch site and back, and, in fact, the experiment itself.
After all, as far as I understand, the size of the container is limited and it will not be possible to create optimal conditions (in terms of humidity) for the development of pupae.

And overloads? Will the pupae move them?

So this is probably one of the stages of the experiment-overload, weightlessness, again overload...

Thank you very much to all who responded! I didn't expect such a response.
We need to digest this information.

And overloads? Will the pupae move them?

The experiment is just on gravitational biology. It is designed to identify the possible effects of these gravitational extremes on the emerging adult. Although, of course, delicate species are not suitable for research.

This post was edited by Alexander Koloskov - 22.02.2007 21: 06

  
Therefore, I propose to launch into space non-diapausing pupae of the common yazykan  
...
If necessary, I can help you purchase the material

Interesting suggestion. And what is their pupal size?
Now we were told to conduct a background experiment (although not on time).
If now you can get their pupae from someone (maybe someone breeds them), then please let them know who has them.

Yes, if you have any other suggestions or recommendations, please let us know.
So far, the restrictions are as follows:
- availability (especially in the autumn period, but best of all year-round - the question of timing is still unresolved)
- pupal development period of at least 20 days (taking into account all stages of delivery)
- endurance
-maybe you missed something else?

Suggestions:
- the beauty of the pupa and especially the imago (most likely, the media will be attracted, they are usually interested in such projects)
- inexpensive (there is no sponsor, you will have to pay at your own expense)

Check out sites selling live tropics - maybe they have something suitable.. Although it seems that the tropics are developing quite quickly, but who exactly knows them there

Yes, if you have any other suggestions or recommendations, please let us know.
Suggestions:
- the beauty of the pupa and especially the imago (most likely, the media will be attracted, they are usually interested in such projects)

The yazykan has pupae up to 2.5 cm in length, only not very decorative, and the appearance of the imago is for an amateur , in this case polyxena is more suitable. The butterfly is beautiful and the pupae are interesting. In addition, there are no problems with endurance (it survives both drought and frost). If necessary, then for such a case I can immediately provide pupae in April-May with only one problem - a long diapause. Although, I think, the development can be accelerated by keeping the pupae in the refrigerator for some time. As an alternative-Saturnia automeris io, although it comes from the USA, which is not quite patriotic, but the butterfly is very beautiful and gives 2-3 generations per year. Pupae are small, 2 cm, in a thin translucent cocoon, resistant to dryness and cold. If necessary, we will breed them in April, and now we can breed them, but there is nothing to feed the caterpillars with yet.

After all, as far as I understand, the size of the container is limited and it will not be possible to create optimal conditions (in terms of humidity) for the development of pupae.

20 days in a box for polyxena is not terrible. For example, it tolerates long mailings well, and there the conditions are also extreme in terms of humidity.

Precisely! :- )
And overloads for such a small organism are nonsense. Here is an elephant - that will not tolerate overheating :-)

2 Alexander Koloskov
Try to apply to the Department of Entomology of the MSU Biofactory Faculty to Viktor A. Zotov, who was previously engaged in space experiments with black-bodied beetles.

And also to Akhaev Dmitry Nikolaevich (at the same department), he had cultures of fireflies - they will not only metamorphose in space, but also multiply there

Yes, and Vorobyovy Gory address is something we have in common!

.. there were cultures of fireflies - they will not only metamorphose in space, but also multiply there

First of all, I would also launch a" moth " of some kind. Only with a known genotype, otherwise you don't know what...

hi.

and I launched a planarium on a biosatellite in 1990, which was interesting.
and my "colleagues" launched ants. this was all for children under the aegis of the Komsomol Central Committee

Please send your compliments to Alexey Mikhailovich if he participates there.

by the way, experiments of this kind have been conducted repeatedly - look at the literature - everything should be written there. I always use a dump (and I think it was used) - mulberry silkworm or at least something easily cultivated.

but if it didn't hit the butterflies, then it was black - bodied beetles, mealworms, and blackbirds. by the way, the ants then died in terrible agony.

This post was edited by shure - 02/26/2007 19: 19

There is a company that breeds exotic butterflies to please the "new Russians" and amateurs - they have worked this out for a very long time, and advertising may interest them - well, you will become famous - so you can combine business with pleasure, I don't remember the name, but they regularly participate in the exhibition Flowers, which takes place in the fall at the All-Russian Exhibition Center and I think there is In the list, I think this is their address: http://www.mirbabochek.ru/news/
Director like Preobrazhenska

and I launched a planarium on a biosatellite in 1990, which was interesting.

According to the project of the experiment, students of our biology department of the Palace of Pioneers on Leninsky Gory (now the Center for Environmental Education of the Palace of Children's Creativity) Andrey Morozov, Sergey Komarov, Andrey Letarov and Tatyana Ezhova also launched a planarium on the Kosmos-1987 biosatellite.
Now the program of development and implementation of student projects of orbital experiments is being resumed. If anyone is interested, you can here read it.
And "Space Butterfly" is one of these projects:


If you can't see the article, click here.

This post was edited by Alexander Koloskov - 05/10/2007 16: 02

hi.

snip ... I always use a dump (and I think it was used) - mulberry silkworm or at least something easily cultivated.

I support Shure's proposal to use silkworm. This butterfly has been used as an experimental animal in many studies and you can find a lot of information about various parameters , for example, physiological, morphological, etc.

You can get Bombyx mori pupae at green plants that are still preserved in the south of Russia, for example, in the Kislovodsk region.

I support Shure's proposal to use silkworm.

Silkworm pupae develop too quickly, within 10-15 days, and the cocoons are too large.

To greenpro:
Tropical bullwhiskers are developing even faster. And they are very capricious to the conditions of incubation.

Silkworm pupae develop too quickly, within 10-15 days, and the cocoons are too large.

cocoons are big, that's right. and as they develop probably as they select the temperature and humidity, so it will be.

According to the project of the experiment, students of our biology department of the Palace of Pioneers on Leninsky Gory (now the Center for Environmental Education of the Palace of Children's Creativity) Andrey Morozov, Sergey Komarov, Andrey Letarov and Tatyana Ezhova also launched a planarium on the Kosmos-1987 biosatellite.

If I'm not mistaken, he is Lyosha Morozov-he later launched with us too-like an old experienced crocodile. in America for a long time already.

Alexander, good afternoon!

The project is very interesting. They don't seem to be the champions of cryptobiosis as organisms for Biorisk, so such a project will also be useful from a scientific point of view.

For my part, I want to say this. Knowing the specifics of the delivery of material on board and the eternal size restrictions, it will be necessary that the stage of the butterfly pupa lasts at least 2-3 months. The material is sometimes delivered a month before the Union or Progress is sent. Plus a few flight days, plus shifts to the ISS, then delivery of the material to Moscow. Small pupae are also needed. Statistics and the amount of content is important.

Will you take the Japanese kids for a share?

Now JAXA (Japan Space Agency) actively promotes the idea of growing silkworms in space. So there will definitely be a positive response in Japan.

http://www.rib.okayama-u.ac.jp/cytomol/kmc-e/ - this is a page of Japanese schoolchildren about MicroLade. They made a photoday of plant growth based on your sample.

This post was edited by Olezhek - 01.03.2007 10: 13

For my part, I want to say this. Knowing the specifics of the delivery of material on board and the eternal size restrictions, it will be necessary that the stage of the butterfly pupa lasts at least 2-3 months. The material is sometimes delivered a month before the Union or Progress is sent. Plus a few flight days, plus shifts to the ISS, then delivery of the material to Moscow. Small pupae are also needed. Statistics and the amount of content is important.

to take a share of nada win first

as for the "delivery" - we arrived in Plesetsk the day before the start and took everything ourselves. soyuz and progress have nothing to do with the biosatellite, because no one will be lucky enough to get to the ISS.

of course, there will be no "big science" there - something will turn out-after they look at them, they will give everything else to the normal lab and they will cheat - at least in our case it was so. plus, I can immediately assume that >50% will die, unfortunately.

but in general-well done for doing everything again earlier. although of course the pipe is lower and the smoke is thinner than in Soviet times.

to take a share of nada win first

as for the "delivery" - we arrived in Plesetsk the day before the start and took everything ourselves. soyuz and progress have nothing to do with the biosatellite, because no one will be lucky enough to get to the ISS.

of course, there will be no "big science" there - something will turn out-after they look at them, they will give everything else to the normal lab and they will cheat - at least in our case it was so. plus, I can immediately assume that >50% will die, unfortunately.

but in general-well done for doing everything again earlier. although of course the pipe is lower and the smoke is thinner than in Soviet times.

I think that this will actually be done on the ISS. Because Bions and Photons are irregular things, and astronauts are our guys. I can't say anything about Plesetsk, because we regularly send everything to the ISS via Kazakhstan. The last package to be sent to Soyuz on April 4 was fully completed on February 24. Draw conclusions about the time frame.

This is also an open question about science. On the ISS, they have been growing everything in greenhouses for almost 15 years (a full cycle), and they only reached the normal analysis of gene expression this year. So I can argue with pipes and fumes.

Olezhek

For my part, I want to say this. Knowing the specifics of the delivery of material on board and the eternal size restrictions, it will be necessary that the stage of the butterfly pupa lasts at least 2-3 months. The material is sometimes delivered a month before the Union or Progress is sent. Plus a few flight days, plus shifts to the ISS, then delivery of the material to Moscow.

Thank you, I consulted with specialists from the IBMP, they confirmed that this can happen - delivery usually takes place in a month and 10 days.

http://www.rib.okayama-u.ac.jp/cytomol/kmc-e/ - this is a page of Japanese schoolchildren about MicroLade. They made a photoday of plant growth based on your sample.

Yes, thank you, there is already a link to their Japanese-language page in the participants section of the experiment (along with others) on the site of our TSEO. So that other readers can understand what we are talking about, information about the MicroLada experiment with ISS cosmonaut Mikhail Tyurin that is already taking place - here.

I think that this will actually be done on the ISS. Because Bions and Photons are irregular things, and astronauts are our guys.

In fact, this issue will be resolved in April-May. Some space has already been allocated on the already planned "Photon" for experiments of schoolchildren, but it has not yet been decided which experiments.
If not on the Photon ,then on the ISS. Or on the next "Photon".

of course, there will be no "big science" there - something will turn out-after they look at them, they will give everything else to the normal lab and they will cheat - at least in our case it was so.

The container with pupae will be returned to the students (the developers of the experiment) after returning from orbit for further research. This is what the program provides for (unless otherwise specified in the experiment itself).

The optimal solution for the experiment is the pupae of the hawk moth (Hemaris fuciformis). Linear dimensions are 23-25 mm. At 24C, the development of a non-diapausal pupa lasts 20-28 days. Pupae are unpretentious to the conditions of detention, they tolerate low humidity well. I am ready to provide material in any required quantity.

Note: The pupae of the common tongue (Macroglossum stellatarum) are 30-35 mm long. At a temperature of 24C, development takes 16-19 days. To delay development up to 3-4 weeks, pupae should be kept at temperatures below 19C.

Thank you, Sergey! (More specifically, Hemaris.)
Interesting suggestion. Although, if the delivery time + flight + return in 2 months occur, then, unfortunately, this will not work. But while the details are being clarified (they promised to clarify the situation by April or May), I will keep your suggestion in mind. And very grateful for it.

The project of the Space Butterfly experiment was approved for implementation on the Photon biosatellite, starting on September 14, 2007.
Cosmonaut Sergey Nikolaevich Ryazansky handed over a container for pupae, which will be on this satellite, to a student of our "Fascinating Entomology" study group:

Here it is:

And so:

Internal dimensions: height 9.4 cm; diameter 4.9 cm. Total volume slightly more than 177 cm3
Accordingly, pupae are required that would be "ready" by September 6 of this year and would not "hatch" for about another 25-30 days.

Photos not attached

I have a right-click on the label "user posted image" with a choice in the menu that opens "Show image" shows the picture.
But just in case I put photos separately:

Passing the container:


Closed container:



Open:

As far as I know, these containers are specially designed for stowage of orbital experiments. Such things are subject to multi-level testing in many ways before they are allowed to be used in space experiments. You can't buy them in a store.
The guys and I use transparent boxes of Tick-tock candies for the simplest collection of live insects, but we carefully remove the paper sticker. And various other recycled plastic containers.

RippeR medicine bottles, I have one big (mayonnaise jar - stain) for short-term trips, and so bubbles, matches. boxes, small stains. You can open a separate topic on this issue.

   You can open a separate topic on this issue.

I support you!

Now I am contacting everyone who can offer suitable material by the deadline, including those who have expressed such a possibility here. If you have one and I haven't contacted you, please let me know.

Today, the Institute of Biomedical Problems hosted a meeting on conducting space experiments for schoolchildren on the Photon-M biosatellite (No. 3), which will be launched from Baikonur on September 14, 2007. The satellite will return to Earth in 12 days. The temperature in the experimental compartment will average 22 g. C, humidity 50-60%.
It turned out that in the container, the photo of which is presented at the top, most likely, peanut seeds will also be placed (for another experiment of schoolchildren), i.e. the volume for pupae under the "Space Butterfly" project will be noticeably smaller. Therefore, the requirements for the size of pupae are slightly tightened. If you have any other suggestions, please feel free to comment.