Training as an entomologist. Higher education institutions in Moscow

Last year I once compared the tariffs in our country and in Russia, I remember the result was this: electricity or water is about the same, but where gas is involved-heating, hot water is still cheaper in Russia. But not by much.

No, well, Ukraine and Russia are different countries, there are specifics. Or will you go to another country to study and work?

I live in Ukraine and have recently been considering moving to Russia. Working in the Russian Federation, you can also graduate in absentia from our university in the Kherson region. This is an option. I don't really like my specialty (chemical technology of organic substances), so I wonder if it makes sense to retrain to something more suitable for me. And as a second option - not to get an education, but simply to find a well-paid job with a preferably free schedule, so that this work allows you to realize your goals regarding entomology in your free time. I am interested in entomologists ' salaries precisely because if they are small, then it may be worth going for the second option.

Wave Storm, have you already received an education in your specialty (which you don't like)?

By pricing plan: We are on the way(With)Pan Stepova. KM2200, as a specialist in time series analysis, I suggest you compare the weather dynamics of utility tariffs in Ukraine and Russia and extrapolate a little.

Once again for those who are not readers ))
I was referring to nature reserves, as it seems clear that national parks are not the best place for scientific activities, these structures are created more for tourism.
In nature reserves, scientific activity is not only possible, but also mandatory, the same chronicle of nature-to compile it, you need field research, in which you can study what you like.
I know people who work or have worked in nature reserves and they are very good scientists.

after all, you yourself work in the reserve, and at the same time there is time to study. And I think it's easier to get to the reserve than to the research institute, and it's easier to work, the field of activity is right under your feet, you don't need expeditions.

No, it's not. I work at a research station of the Russian Academy of Sciences, actually a micro research institute. And the nature reserve is with her. In Ukraine, it was called a nature reserve, and the station was attached to it, but the essence was the same-an institution of the Academy of Sciences, whose tasks are primarily scientific, and environmental protection is already in the second place. And expeditions are still needed, since the novelty in one territory quickly ends.
Just "work in the reserve and study butterflies there for your own pleasure and without expeditions" is possible if there is an additional source of income. Since the salary there will really not be ice.

As for the rent, from personal experience, we now pay $ 20 for a 2-bedroom apartment in the summer - this is a complete set, without subsidies.
In winter last year, the amount was approx. 46 pupaars in the coldest months, we have a meter for heating, and again, this is without subsidies. Is it cheaper in Russia?

I can't say for all of them, but I still pay a little less.

About how in the West - I just need to look at how various societies work there, especially amateur ones, what are the results of this work, and compare it with our despondency

And I'm not talking to you for amateurs, it's clear what's cooler in this regard. But for a salary, just "studying butterflies" without a degree and without straining is certainly not more profitable there (by the standards of their country) than in the CIS. In more developed countries, the demand for what you have done for your salary is always tougher (that's why they are more developed).

In general, I think that I have already said enough, it is time to end this discussion.

I live in Ukraine and have recently been considering moving to Russia. Working in the Russian Federation, you can also graduate in absentia from our university in the Kherson region. This is an option. I don't really like my specialty (chemical technology of organic substances), so I wonder if it makes sense to retrain to something more suitable for me. And as a second option - not to get an education, but simply to find a well-paid job with a preferably free schedule, so that this work allows you to realize your goals regarding entomology in your free time. I am interested in entomologists ' salaries precisely because if they are small, then it may be worth going for the second option.

The situation is certainly difficult, and you will have to think a lot and carefully. Usually, good scientists (who receive a normal salary) graduate full-time and, as a rule, not in Kherson. If you take Ukraine, then this is Kharkiv (named after Karazin) or Kiev (named after Shevchenko), or at least Odessa (named after Mechnikov). If you study by correspondence, it is more difficult to enter graduate school, and without it it is difficult to defend a PhD, and without it it is difficult to find a normal job. If you are planning the European part of Russia, but not Moscow-St. Petersburg and not the far north, then in general it is difficult to find good salaries. And without a degree-even more so. To get a degree, you need to start thinking about it right away (from the first year) - choose a specific group to study (butterflies are too broad). Do not take the one that the manager deals with, take the one where the closest specialist is at least on the other side of the country, or even further away. This way you will avoid many conflicts in the future. Collect a collection, determine what you can-take it to him. Decide on the candidate's topic. While studying, you need to collect most of the material for it, then there will be no time - you will need to bring everything to mind and make it out. Immediately figure out if there is a place in your city where you are going, where you are going to work in your specialty, what people do there, what kind of team, and how much they pay. Put all the pros and cons (if you would like to be among them there, what is needed for this).

If you follow the second path, then you should keep in mind that the main work should be such that you do not take it home. To have time to go out in nature and collect material. Unlike working in your specialty, you will not be allowed to go on an expedition, so you need to immediately settle in where you are interested. Although in the north they pay more, but there are fewer butterflies - also another dilemma (although maybe I'm wrong about butterflies?). In general, something in between - somewhere in Siberia, but closer to the south... But if the main work is somewhere in the factory and collecting material, then there is unlikely to be time left for studying literature and collections, so you will have to cooperate with specialists. This is also a good option. Many of my friends without any education contribute more to science than some educated people, by collecting material, knowing what to collect and how to collect it, but not publishing it independently, but passing it on to specialists (and then there are interesting collective publications with their participation).

In general, think and decide based on your age and marital status, how much are you ready to change everything? I hope that this information will be useful for reflection.

Well, I'm talking about them. The Ukrainian national park does not differ much from the reserve in terms of receiving tourists, it differs only in the structure of the territory and "steepness".

Yes, and Russian, in principle, too, like any other country. The obvious thing is that science in an institution whose main goal is to protect nature will always, by definition, feel worse than in an institution where it is the main goal of its creation. Universities are somewhere in the middle here: there, science is relegated to the background, but still not in the same way as in protected areas.

The Far East is the best (in terms of fauna, the degree of its study, and the number of competitors). Although suddenly there will be a nuclear war?

Probably, each group is different. For me - Altai, Tuva and Dagestan.

Actually, based on the location where Waveshtorm lives now, I personally find it difficult to imagine a better option, a place of residence
There are SO many things out there that oh.

Yes, and I forgot the last thing-there are such specifics about lepidoptera that some leading specialists strongly dislike some other leading specialists. Well, you probably know that. So you should immediately choose the "right" person to work with (or specialize in), as you will probably be a non grata persona to their opponents.

Actually, based on the location where Waveshtorm lives now, I personally find it difficult to imagine a better option, a place of residence
There's so much going on there that oh.

It is on my Kakhovskaya arena that there is not so much. And in other places of the Kherson region-yes, it can be interesting. But there's nothing to live on.

This post was edited by Wave Storm - 02.11.2017 21: 06

Yes, nothing has been studied there, I just walked along and found a sphagnum swamp, people, world-famous experts made surprised eyes ) It is believed that the southernmost such swamp in the Black Forest.
And for lepidoptera there in general, and not only.
But still, yes, it is necessary to walk, to walk.. Dozens of kilometers per day, preferably for several days)

And in the Far East, maybe there are no competitors, but there are SUCH horseflies, one time is probably enough to run back along the BAM on foot home

Yes, somehow people live, they don't complain about horseflies. In general, I have never heard that horseflies annoy a person to complete exhaustion in any part of the world, they love large horned animals more. And a person - mosquitoes, woodlice and midges. Here are the frequent floods of the Far East-the trouble, although compared to the Ukrainian-garbage.

"People" live there in cities, and in places where this is not the case, but entomologists-they are supposed to sometimes go to other places )))

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__d1xUmbV-g

Where is it at all? Judging by the landscape, not at all where there are a lot of butterflies, but much further north. Or does Pan think that the yard is covered with horseflies? By the way, note: almost all horseflies gathered on the "big horned beast", there are almost no horseflies on the peasant.

This post was edited by ENO-02.11.2017 23: 53

but just find a well-paid job with a preferably free schedule, so that this work allows you to realize your goals regarding entomology in your free time.

Me! Me! I want this job too! If you find it, can I send you the employer's coordinates?

It is better to ask Pan Hierophis about this, he claims that this is exactly what he works for. And, judging by the number of field photos, at least in relation to the free schedule, it's definitely not lying.

Cool notes )
I especially liked this piece.
In principle, it is clear where I would define some haughty panelists, "I've said enough", well, right Dixi, not otherwise, Of course, these important people deserve the first place
For me, it's more likely the latter, namely that "the process itself", and not all this paperwork, abstruse turns and statistical methods, especially when these methods are used where everything can be counted on your fingers)) )

Although, again, from the same notes - in this planev something "the whole system is to blame". If we take exactly the middle place of the proposed ranking, then in my understanding it should always have been so, a scientist can write even one article in his whole life, but it will be really productive, but all these dull stanocho-Stakhanov's allowances make scientists work like mad printers)

but all these dreary stanocho-Stakhanov allowances seem to make scientists work like mad printers)

You know, it's not so far from the truth. I was once told by an academic (a real one, but not an entomologist) literally this: "you know, in fact, most of our work is complete bullshit, but the situation is like this... that is, we are placed in such conditions... that, as they say, sometimes you need to drive a plan." Just like that...

Well, it wasn't my idea, "people have been talking and writing about this for a long time" (c)
As for the visual commentary, it is clear that people did not like some of the accents in my attempt to match their ideas, starting from the quote from the story.
Well)))

And the story is good, although many acute moments are written, let's say, in a streamlined form. I liked the political moments, although they talk about Africa and the peculiarities of its way of life, involuntarily in the local jokes you can see some other country. Especially about 100% liked it!

About the "system", another point that was not raised much there, although there were some thoughts in terms of conflicts between specialists.
It turns out a paradox, on the one hand, it would seem, where there should be cohesion, if not in the circle of researchers. And figs there)
This is a very interesting point, and it is probably inherent in the very nature of interaction in science, where individual ambitions are very important on the one hand, and collective interaction is necessary on the other. This is not the case in production, for example, people make some parts, and even if they participate in the general process, they do not directly depend on each other. Therefore, if someone does not like someone from colleagues on the shop floor, then formally there are no methods of influence, except to "starve the team" as with a scoop, but in normal production there is no such thing. And in science, there is the same uncitation, rejection of articles at the review stage, and so on, this is also in this story)

Another joke about money.
The story begins with a bummer, the author wanted to deal with staphylinids, but in the end he had to deal with what some uncle would say. It is something like and logical, "uncle" pays money, and acc. orders a referral. But research is really a creative process, it should be enjoyed, and instead of the desired objects, you have to do what others will say. Therefore, in science, probably a very important property is the ability to adapt, to abandon ideals, hence arrogance, and despondency, and much more. Of course, you can also do your favorite insects in between, but this is already like a hack in production, or a hobby )
And it's especially insulting that it would be fine if you don't work in science, and "bugs" are a hobby, but if you washed up at uni, and then it turned out that instead of your favorite German oss there, you will be engaged in pooolists, because your teacher needs it. He needs it, but why do I need it, for example?))
If you have your own money, then this is independence, and independence is cool )
Therefore, it is much better in the West, where you can earn a decent salary by your work, and do research as much as you want, which is what people do there,
and here on the post-soviet - "who works, eats" - but only what he eats, and not ham at all ))

That's right, fuck bagels! Long live the fight against the system! Every self-respecting scientist should spend their entire lives admiring Fuji and observing nature, and then they can only publish one paper before retiring. Or even better, go to the west and work there for a decent fee (anywhere, most importantly not in a scientific environment), so that you can then "do research as much as you want" without publishing anything at all! After all, when submitting the results of your observations to peer-reviewed journals, you may face the fact that your colleagues may criticize them. So don't choke on the stink! After all, "real science fanatics" who "work day and night" have absolutely nothing to publish, publications are only for "those who care only about all sorts of social benefits" or "high administration and leadership of others".

 
As for the visual commentary, it is clear that people did not like some of the accents in my attempt to match their ideas, starting from the quote from the story.
Well)))

Starting from the quote, I wonder where you saw my professorship? Or maybe I hold some kind of administrative position and manage others? Or do I want to take a position with a higher salary at the expense of scientific tasks? Or maybe you got at least one grant? Or set up a lab? How do you know what the purpose of writing articles is for me, if you've read them all?

Well, these are the extremes)

So, I'll summarize my current ideas so far as follows:
Of course, a researcher should publish his / her work, but publish it when he / she deems it necessary, without regard to bureaucratic incentives.
That's about it:

  
have you read them all?"

Yes!
All that was found in the Internet, satisfied?

About the rest, I didn't think that it would hurt so much, I'm sorry )

So, I'll summarize my current ideas so far as follows:
Of course, a researcher should publish his / her work, but publish it when he / she deems it necessary, without regard to bureaucratic incentives.
That's about it:

Now I generally agree. I see it this way: there is some problem and it needs to be solved in full (and not anyhow as under the race of standards). But when the scientist has solved it, you need to publish. Necessarily. Otherwise, there is no point in the work of such a scientist.

The amateur is not so tightly bound by obligations. Unless only in an ethical sense. They can transmit their own data, findings or observations to supplement the work of specialists, or publish them, or they can simply admire nature - this is their right, to admire, but it is not their duty to transmit data.

Also, the amateur is more free to choose the site for their publications.

I agree.

I have already written that formally any writing on this forum is already a publication (Publication - making public any information). Of course, there are nuances here, but ..

However, important information should be published where it belongs. And not among the skirmishes and other flood.

All of these academic journals are of course important for a scientist's career and assessment in their internal Prof. yes, but who among the fans reads them? No one is saying that these articles are not important, but this is a completely different world

Well, why not? You read some of the articles, don't you? And there are generally magazines for amateurs, such as Ampulex.

Criticism, reviews? Yes, I am always in favor, but most likely most off-site scientists will not bother with this, they are busy people )

A real expert will never refuse to review an article for their group. Another thing is that if the article is really bad, then most likely he will not list all the shortcomings.

When I posted my draft of my observations of the vespulae, no one but Ezox criticized it, and to be honest, I haven't finished it yet)

See the forum section above.

And this is also the beauty of freedom - there is no desire, you can not do it, there is a desire-please.
And "at work" would be like in the famous rhyme

This is enough for me at a regular job)

I've already figured out that you're a hippie.

And if only criticism, then I'm always in favor!
And how much stupid bureaucracy you need to perform to submit this article, all these spaces, headers and footers, limits!

Limits are not available everywhere (most often they are not). Headers and footers are an editorial matter. Well, spaces, sorry, how can you write text without them?
In general, the claim is strange. It's like a fashion designer coming up with a dress complaining that there are so many things to do: seams, buttons...

And what pictures will they print there? Yes, no, at best microscopic and BW ) Not, nafig, this is not our method)

Lots of electronic journals.

Yes!
All that was found in the Internet, satisfied?

Well, so many of them specify the goal. Clearly not so )))

This post was edited by Carcharot - 03.11.2017 22: 17

Also, the amateur is more free to choose the site for their publications. I have already written that formally any writing on this forum is already a publication (Publication - making public any information). Of course, there are nuances here, but ..

All of these academic journals are of course important for a scientist's career and assessment in their internal Prof. yes, but who among the fans reads them? No one is saying that these articles are not important, but this is a completely different world

Can I try to defend a little bit of academic science?
When they talk about a scientific publication, they usually do not mean a publication at all (on a forum, etc.), but a publication that has passed peer review, that is, an independent review. And this is really necessary, it guarantees some minimal quality of this very publication.
And paper magazines can really die out soon, and by the way there are magazines that do not have a paper version, all this has nothing to do with it.

About the rest, I didn't think that it would hurt so much, I'm sorry )

I just don't like this "first type" myself, and I also think that real experts belong to the "second type". Well, the "third type" is also too much-I know several of them who spend their whole life collecting material (and there is quite a lot of novelty in it), but have not really published anything. And when it comes to some kind of catalog, then there is nothing to rely on in the end. Some still try to prevent others from publishing, but that's another story.

PS Well, have we come to some kind of consensus on this issue, or will we continue to argue for nothing?

This post was edited by Carcharot - 03.11.2017 22: 33

  
I just don't like this "first type" myself, and I also think that real experts belong to the "second type". Well, the "third type" is also too much-I know several of them who spend their whole life collecting material (and there is quite a lot of novelty in it), but have not really published anything. And when it comes to some kind of catalog, then there is nothing to rely on in the end. Some still try to prevent others from publishing, but that's another story.

PS Well, have we come to some kind of consensus on this issue, or will we continue to argue for nothing?

Well, OK, here we are)
As for the third type, the author in the quote (and this is the author's retelling of the words of his friend) cites such words as "call it what you want", that is, yes, they are not always scientists, they can just be amateurs

Can I try to defend a little bit of academic science?
When they talk about a scientific publication, they usually do not mean a publication at all (on a forum, etc.), but a publication that has passed peer review, that is, an independent review. And this is really necessary, it guarantees some minimal quality of this very publication.
And paper magazines can really die out soon, and by the way there are magazines that do not have a paper version, all this has nothing to do with it.

I understand that
Now understand that a review is a critical assessment of what you've written.
So, you know, on this forum you can get after some messages to your address such reviews that it will not seem enough, see this topic, the topic about the Red Book and insects, and many others
These are essentially reviews, and note-mostly by anonymous reviewers, everything is as it should be )))

Oh, unlike some people, I benefit the community at work, so go ahead, in my ravine, to benefit the community, finding out aspects of the ecology and biology of parthenogenetic males of Cerceris tuberata

This post was edited by Hierophis - 04.11.2017 00: 09

And some more thoughts on the topic)
In the story from which I quoted
( https://www.zin.ru/ANIMALIA/COLEOPTERA/rus/postdoc.htm a
case is mentioned when an American soldier, at the age of 35, again entered the university, completed graduate school and then studied fan-winged beetles. These are exactly his quotes I posted above.
This, it would seem, is exactly the case that suits the author of the question that revived the topic, that is, even at this age, it is not too late to study.
But, there is a nuance, that person is an American, and a military man with good savings, which was also mentioned there.

I also tried to do this at one time, and I didn't succeed, the reason is banal - I didn't have enough funds, and + health problems, but that's secondary.
WaveShtorm will get all this, I don't know, it's up to him to decide)

And for those who still decided to link their fate with entomology, and are studying at uni, I would highly recommend reading the story, and immediately start planning their postdoc even in Africa, even in Australia, from the second year to plan, if only not to marinate in the local post-Soviet tin
By the way, the author of the story is on a position in Canada, judging by the information in the Internet, so as here they said "work on yourself" and ... learn razg. English and go, without looking back ))

Wave Storm, have you already received an education in your specialty (which you don't like)?

Yes, I already worked on it, I'm tired of it.

Exactly.

I only know about one: I got a job as a supervisor at the reserve (but not in the scientific field). I haven't been in contact with the other two of them for a long time. But they chose the specialty "landscape design" and did not express a desire to engage in science (although they had quite the ability).

That's it, let's talk about it! At the biofactory, ladies are always in the majority. This was also the case for us, although the group where I later specialized in the department was unique, with half the guys in it. And two pairs that were formed in the course of studying still exist. As for those who studied well, I know that one lady did not go to science, and at least five others defended their dissertations. Two of them work as research assistants in the same place as me, two more teach at the university, and the fifth one seems to work somewhere else in her specialty, but I do not know where. Two other guys who were in high school, went to graduate school, but did not defend themselves, one works in the environmental field, the other in the zoo museum at the university, but both do a little bit of insects in their spare time. I also know that two friends work in medical laboratories. Another couple are engaged in all sorts of fishing equipment, another lady works in a kindergarten and one friend makes websites, it seems. I don't know about the rest of them. There were about 50 people in total. But it should be borne in mind that most of those who initially went to study at the biology faculty were not particularly keen on biology: it was important for someone just to get a diploma, and the competition for the "budget" there was, nevertheless, not the biggest, and the prices for "commerce" too. So, those who wanted to realize themselves were able to do it to a greater extent.

PS Anticipating where this topic may go, I note that I am familiar with four biologists at once (one wasp specialist and three botanists), who also make websites in the EU countries (Italy, Germany, Holland). Two of us, two of the locals - none of them in the specialty of work there is not found. One of our colleagues has returned and is now working here in his specialty. Although maybe they weren't too keen. The choice is a personal matter for everyone. Someone finds a place for himself, and there already adapts what to do, and someone finds what to do, and then adapts, looking for a suitable place. In any case, all people are conformists in one or another plane of consideration.

This post was edited by Carcharot - 04.11.2017 23: 23