Training as an entomologist. Higher education institutions in Moscow

Personally, I have a diploma like this:

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Good diploma! I never liked chemistry either) How I will defend my thesis in six months - I will show my

No, I was fine with chemistry. It was just that the teacher was a fierce beast . Of the entire group, only 1 five was and three fours.

Our chemists also commit atrocities for some reason, we had a lot of retakes. I managed to get an exl in organic terms, and a chorus in inorganic terms, but the most terrible thing is matanalysis, after which about 30% of those received usually fly out.

We were also tormented by mathematicians.

and I have a good chemist at school)

I want to try to summarize my question
for a multi-faceted, interesting study of insects..-
- I study until 11kl.
- then VSU
- Faculty of Biology and Soil Science
-Department of Ecology and Systematics of Invertebrates
- Study well, make friends with teachers

result: work that is close to your heart

and what is: "Basic special courses:"?
there's a General entomology

Special courses are what is taught at the department in the chosen specialty. There are also general courses-for all students in the course/department.

that is, as an add-on. classes - optional?

that is, as an add-on. classes - optional?

No. They are mandatory. They just go by specialization.

No, not optional, mandatory and go to the diploma.

We were also tormented by mathematicians.

Perhaps, by the time I started studying, the mathematician for biologists had already changed, but the one who led the lectures was a very correct person: he quite adequately treated the students of the Faculty of Biology as idiots, and therefore suggested that whoever needs a triple can take it using literature. And those who need to be sick-they go to the full program. As a result, all passed the exam**and passed the first time, and some of those who want pobol for the first time learned what a retake is.

This post was edited by Asar - 13.10.2011 22: 54

Perhaps, by the time I started studying, the mathematician for biologists had already changed, but the one who led the lectures was a very correct person: he quite adequately treated the students of the Faculty of Biology as idiots, and therefore suggested that whoever needs a triple can take it using literature. And those who need to be sick-they go to the full program. As a result, all passed the exam**and passed the first time, and some of those who want pobol for the first time learned what a retake is.

No, it wasn't like that with us. You had to sit down in front of the teacher and take the differential - it was 3. If you needed more , you had to pull the ticket and answer.

It was necessary to sit down in front of the teacher and take the differential

"The student failed to take a derivative-The dean's office told him..." - the eternal anthem of all mathematical faculties, there are a lot of options... http://netnotes.narod.ru/texts/t2.html

PS: Here's another good compilation: http://lurkmore.ru/%D0%9C%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%BD

Tell me, please, if I want to retrain as an entomologist, and that the work was related to the study of, say, biology or the distribution of insects, then it is enough, in addition to self-education, to study as a biologist? And what is the possible salary?

This post was edited by Wave Storm - 10/30/2017 17: 36

Tell me, please, if I want to retrain as an entomologist, and that the work was related to the study of, say, biology or the distribution of insects, then it is enough, in addition to self-education, to study as a biologist? And what is the possible salary?

First, you need to get a basic biological education, preferably where there is a department of entomology. (But this is not necessary). Then try to find a job in your specialty - some university, research institute, sanitary and epidemiological service, museum, finally... And (mostly outside of business hours) you can study the biology or distribution of insects...

Elizar, mostly after hours, you can do this in theory, working at a regular job, right? In this case, it turns out that it doesn't make sense who to work with? As long as they pay well.

Nitsche itself turn ))
In fact, to really engage in entomology, so that there is novelty and completeness of data, for this, first of all, money is needed (Everything else is secondary)

Well, if you go to the rate after school, then the salary neither here nor in the "sluggish neighboring country" may not please you, and you can get bored there, they didn't write in vain - to study insects in your spare time))) Because during working hours you will have to either write papers, or lead excursions, or teach
Although, maybe now Carcharot will tell us how you can be on the official rate, and do real science, which has nothing to do with bureaucracy, I'm also interested )
Yes, you can apply for some Western grants, but for this, I think the scientometrics should already be good, and belonging to a specialized organization can be taken into account.

Elizar, mostly after hours, you can do this in theory, working at a regular job, right? In this case, it turns out that it doesn't make sense who to work with? As long as they pay well.

https://www.zin.ru/ANIMALIA/COLEOPTERA/rus/postdoc.htm
Here it is well written about the life of an entomologist, and about finding a job after school, and about applications for grants and about an internship/postdoc... By the way, entomologists do not have large salaries almost all over the world... Only if you" spud " grants - which are not given to everyone and not on all sorts of topics...

Well, I would doubt "around the world". No, of course, if you apply for the salaries of some "top managers", then yes, but I think that any entomologist, museum employee, environmental protection employee, and others will receive a normal salary that allows you to have a normal standard of living in the West. At the same time, I do not think that in the case of working in the reserve "tam", the entomologist will be subjected to the same ordeals with housing and ordinary needs as in the post-Soviet department
But for WaveShtorm, this is clearly not an option, because the west is not strong ))
We are generally bad with this, so it remains only the Russian Federation, I think that getting there after training in a protected area as an entomologist is not so difficult, but for some reason I think that it will not be ETR ))

Well, I would doubt "around the world". No, of course, if you apply for the salaries of some "top managers", then yes, but I think that any entomologist, museum employee, environmental protection employee, and others will receive a normal salary that allows you to have a normal standard of living in the West. At the same time, I do not think that in the case of working in the reserve "tam", the entomologist will be subjected to the same ordeals with housing and ordinary needs as in the post-Soviet department
But for WaveShtorm, this is clearly not an option, because the west is not strong ))
We are generally bad with this, so it remains only the Russian Federation, I think that getting there after training in a protected area as an entomologist is not so difficult, but for some reason I think that it will not be ETR ))

Read "Notes..." for general development and understanding of the ratio of science/work / salary/
The "States" fund specific research on narrow, specific topics. For example, studying some species imported from China and destroying forests...
You have done research - you are free, search for the research topic/earnings further

This post was edited by Elizar - 30.10.2017 19: 47

Although, maybe now Carcharot will tell us how you can be on the official rate, and do real science, which has nothing to do with bureaucracy, I'm also interested )

Why, if Hierophis here is the biggest expert in this business, everywhere it puts its "expert" opinion. Probably only communicates with professional entomologists from all over the world, judging by the posts, and at the same time considers their salaries.

Tell me, please, if I want to retrain as an entomologist, and that the work was related to the study of, say, biology or the distribution of insects, then it is enough, in addition to self-education, to study as a biologist? And what is the possible salary?

As for education in the topic, everything has already been said - the specialty "biology" is extremely desirable and at the same time sufficient (hereinafter only self-education). As for the rest, it is also important to know where you are located (geographically), and what group of insects you want to engage in.

And you can say something in addition to jokes in essence, for example, to refute the statement that entomologists (especially those who work in the PZF, or are researchers in analogs of research institutes, in general, do not teach, do not work in museums or sansluybah, namely, they are engaged in research) live much better than the same ones in the Russian Federation ?

By the way, interestingly, no one wrote the size of their salaries, well, even if not on their own behalf, but at least the range in the region is

And what's the point if you still refute everything with your "expert" opinion? I here, for example, do not know how to drink votka, but this, contrary to your beliefs, does not prevent me from working in my specialty.

Yeah.. And what does my opinion have to do with it, especially if it doesn't mean anything to you)
I'm not saying anything, I'm just guessing.

By the way, about tips about reading notes - I will definitely read them, but I will clarify that the question here is not about emigrants but about "aborigines", that is, how much easier it is to live and how different the income will be if you are a classic entomologist in the Russian Federation, and Western countries-Spain, Italy, Germany or the USA. For some reason, I think that in Western countries it is much easier to realize yourself professionally in entomology, while having the usual average income for those countries in this job)
According to what I see, in our country, and for some reason I think that in the neighboring "great and maguchey" it is very difficult, being an entomologist, especially an "ordinary" one. claim even the domestic average standard of living. You can do it, but you can't do it without Western grants, or some other investments, and your own funds.
That's why I wrote that first of all I would need money)

About vodka in this case, too, I did not come up with, it's all on the first pages of the topic ponapisano)

Despite the fact that the others already understand everything, and you need proof-refutations. If you don't want to, don't believe it. I will not list which of my foreign colleagues is getting out of it. But it is obvious that the life of an entomologist (on average) in other countries differs (again, on average) from the life of our entomologists in about the same way as the life of a person of any other profession in these countries differs from the corresponding professions in our country. In addition, as in any other activity, even in one organization, the income can vary several times.

OK, let's take this as a starting point )

As for education in the topic, everything has already been said - the specialty "biology" is extremely desirable and at the same time sufficient (hereinafter only self-education). As for the rest, it is also important to know where you are located (geographically), and what group of insects you want to engage in.

Let's say I'm in Ukraine or Russia (or is a specific region of the country important?), and the group is lepidoptera.

OK, let's take this as a starting point )
I will proceed from the specialty in which I work now. Let's say that in our region now it is quite easy to find an income of 500 conventional units for this, I looked specifically at the RFII, at the moment the minimum level in such a specialty is 1000, in one of the EU countries, specifically Poland, they give a minimum of 4500 for this (this is a specific example of a friend who went there)

Let's construct the ratio of 1:2 and 1:9, respectively.

Now, according to my data, the PO of an "ordinary" entomologist in the PZF, not KBN, is OK 160. According to the ratios in the RFII, this will be 320. In Poland, in theory, it will be approx. 1500. It is interesting, but this figure is just appropriate. average PO in Poland reduced to a standard unit

Now we look at how you can "get out" of 1500 in Poland)) Considering that food there is slightly cheaper than in Ukraine, utility bills are on average twice as expensive, but this is not much more than 200 units. And even more, if you take away food and water. for example, a Polish entomologist will get out at least 1000 ue, and a Russian one .. at 200, in the beam case)) Where is the error?

What does a normal non-PhD do? We were talking about scientists, not about those who pour chemistry into the fields. Error in comparing results calculated in advance according to the "theory". If you take a few countries and the real average salaries and average salaries of entomologists, then the picture is clear. And so it is clear that in the Russian Federation they are higher than in/in Ukraine, and in Poland-higher than in the Russian Federation. And, by the way, very few people work here for $ 320, and most of my friends get twice or even three times as much. Although there are some of them, too. At the same time, I know people in Europe who generally poison vespula nests for money, and science in their spare time (at the same time world-class). So, anything can happen. And there and here-as someone is lucky. In general, entomologists everywhere are known as eccentric paganels with low salaries. But a good specialist, as in any other field, can earn more than a bad one. Even without grants.

This post was edited by Carcharot - 02.11.2017 13: 40

Let's say I'm in Ukraine or Russia (or is a specific region of the country important?), and the group is lepidoptera.

No, well, Ukraine and Russia are different countries, there are specifics. Or will you go to another country to study and work?

Yes, people working in protected areas of the Russian Federation suggested to me that now the salary of a researcher in the reserve is about 100 ue, there are still various allowances, a recent increase in some places, so the total amount is certainly higher, but it turns out that I quite well calculated that the total amount will be about 300 ue, but it turns out, which is most likely less, and it is better for such an employee to count on 200

By the way, we have 160 is the very minimum, given that here food prices are lower than in the Russian Federation, and utility tariffs too, then ...

Well, I told you, "expert opinion" rules. Work in the PZF/SPNA means just studying papers for 160-320 CU. Doing science is optimal just in research institutes and their analogues.

About two or even three times more - well, somehow it looks fantastic at all, the question arises, what do they do ))

They study butterflies and write scientific articles for which there is a proportional salary supplement. Good specialists who actively publish in serious peer-reviewed publications receive a higher salary bonus.

One should not confuse writing scientific papers (the creative process) and the accompanying mandatory constant study of such works by one's domestic and foreign colleagues with filling out bureaucratic documents on cadastres of Red Book species, reporting on environmental measures carried out, etc. Yes, of course, working in the PZF/Protected areas can probably sometimes go out into nature and take pictures of butterflies. Only big science is unlikely to work there, there is not enough time and energy when the head is full of all sorts of standards. At least, while working at the national park, I never even appeared on its territory with a net.
So, the best way in which it is possible to professionally (for a salary) engage in entomology as a science in the conditions of the Russian Federation or Ukraine is a fundamental biological education, then graduate school and defense (although I know some serious scientists without a degree, but it is much easier to find a suitable job with a degree), and then work somewhere in Institute of Zoology or Evolutionary Ecology (if in / in Ukraine) or in some Institute of the Russian Academy of Sciences (if in the Russian Federation), but not agricultural-oriented.

Universities are also bad - in addition to teaching, there is also a constant filling out of all sorts of scribbles, I agree here (if this is not some Moscow State University, where there are separate scientific positions in laboratories that are not related to teaching). In general, it is difficult to find a job to your liking and with a satisfactory salary in any country the first time (for example, I changed three places until I found what I was looking for, and many familiar colleagues did not find it, and not only those living in the CIS, but also at least a few from the EU I know some of them). So stop spreading this theme that "everything is bad here, but everything is fine there" - work for yourself and you will be rewarded! You can certainly try to move, but there you will probably have to strain yourself no less (there are nuances everywhere).

here food prices are lower than in the Russian Federation, and utility rates too, then ...

Come on. Food - yes, and communal services are cheaper, if it's not the north of some (but there and salaries are multiplied by an additional factor).

There, I told you...

Well, that was the place to start!

Only there are a few points, namely, when I spoke about working in the PZF, I meant nature reserves.
After all, there seems to be more scientific activity in the reserve, because you work in the reserve yourself, and at the same time you have time to study. And I think it's easier to get to the reserve than to the research institute, and it's easier to work, the field of activity is right under your feet, you don't need expeditions.

As for the rent, from personal experience, we now pay $ 20 for a 2-bedroom apartment in the summer - this is a complete set, without subsidies.
In winter last year, the amount was approx. 46 pupaars in the coldest months, we have a meter for heating, and again, this is without subsidies. Is it cheaper in Russia?

About how in the West - I just need to see how various societies work there, especially amateur ones, what are the results of this work, and compare it with our despondency