Are there any facts about the extinction of insects today?

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Pirx, 05.10.2011 9:07

Questions about the number of employees have repeatedly appeared in discussions here. But can a species be destroyed? Economic activity, it is, of course, understandable... And if the species has always been rare? And what is "always"? And there is no unity. Not rare, but local (up to microstations) - spears break just by wagons. Can I destroy a local view? Is it possible to knock out all populations of a super commercial species without economic activity? We will not delve into the Lower Hemisphere of the planet. Parnassius davydovi? The spectacle of international humanoids and local avaricious aborigines combing the mountains in search of tufts, etc. How much (rhetorical question) should the insect then cost ? Many lepidoptera refer to an article describing an experiment to capture one of the pigeon species somewhere on an island in a temperate climate (UK?), using all available methods. Spoiler alert: it seems that a few percent were caught (accounting data). r-and K-strategies? What's in nonprofit groups? How common is explicit speculation on this topic? Is there a place for paranoia or "things aren't really what they are"? It is very interesting to hear your opinion...

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05.10.2011 12:02, niyaz

Still presumably extinct insects: of course, in the vast majority of cases, the cause of extinction is the destruction of biotopes and the invasion of alien species-exterminators.

Alloperla roberti - springweed from the United States
Dryophthorus distinguendus - weevil from Hawaii
Emperoptera mirabilis - fly from Hawaii
Hesperocolletes douglasi - Rotnest Island bee
Levuana irridescens - pied moth from Fiji
Mecodema punctellum - ground beetle from New Zealand
Pentagenia robusta - mayfly from the United States
Siettitia ayenionensis - France's Freshwater beetle
Melanoplus spretus - US Rocky Mountain Locust
Hydropsyche tobiasi - Rhine River caddis
fly Urania sloanus-urania from Jamaica

This post was edited by niyaz - 05.10.2011 12: 03

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06.10.2011 10:07, А.Й.Элез

Googled it, nominative subspecies, great. Was it destroyed by collectors? It's not the sorrel that's gone.

In fact, it is considered extinct, and I remember that the consequences of the industrial revolution of the XIX century and the disturbed ecology are blamed for this. If in such ancient times, species or at least populations were already beaten out by collectors (this is still not reliably called today), the green snake would have struck entomology much earlier, and not since the 1970s. As for how a change in the chemistry of a food plant affects caterpillar mortality due to dirty precipitation , I don't yet know if there are any studies on this subject. Apollo also lived within the boundaries of the PTZ (not only near the Luzhkovs), but even in a protected area and in the presence of clean-up, too, from a certain moment died out so specifically that the reintroduction already failed.
By the way: during the Chernobyl story, a competent doctor told me that among human food plants, sorrel is the most dangerous after those events, since radionuclides (or something else, I don't remember) do not come out of it, but accumulate in it. It is possible that it reacts just as fatally to any critical chemical contamination of the rains. Then it is quite easy for a species that depends on it to become extinct at a certain level of atmospheric pollution (especially if there is not enough time for adaptation and selection, which industrial revolutions do not give).

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06.10.2011 12:54, Pirx

In fact, it is considered extinct, and I remember that the consequences of the industrial revolution of the XIX century and the disturbed ecology are blamed for this. If in such ancient times, species or at least populations were already beaten out by collectors (this is still not reliably called today), the green snake would have struck entomology much earlier, and not since the 1970s. As for how a change in the chemistry of a food plant affects caterpillar mortality due to dirty precipitation , I don't yet know if there are any studies on this subject. Apollo also lived within the boundaries of the PTZ (not only near the Luzhkovs), but even in a protected area and in the presence of clean-up, too, from a certain moment died out so specifically that the reintroduction already failed.
By the way: during the Chernobyl story, a competent doctor told me that among human food plants, sorrel is the most dangerous after those events, since radionuclides (or something else, I don't remember) do not come out of it, but accumulate in it. It is possible that it reacts just as fatally to any critical chemical contamination of the rains. Then it is quite easy for a species that depends on it to become extinct at a certain level of atmospheric pollution (especially if there is not enough time for adaptation and selection, which industrial revolutions do not give).

Nd-ah, disappointing!

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11.10.2011 12:16, А.Й.Элез

Nd-ah, disappointing!

Let's not worry too much, because five days ago in Serpukhov, which is already an industrial city for a long time, a new plant for the production of ceramic plates was opened. Maybe they'll make one for Apollo, too...

Two comments on the issue submitted for discussion. First. It is difficult to understand what the question is about: about insects in general (or at least within a certain place: for example, cockroaches and ants disappeared in a separate apartment), about populations, about subspecies, about species?

Second. The wording "reliable facts of the natural rarity of any insects", which most likely refers to species, should still be clarified: either specify that we are talking about any stages, or indicate which specific stages we are talking about (and it would also not hurt to clarify this aspect in the topic). For the same species within a certain territory, the number even at the adult stage is very mobile, and the difference in number between adults (especially when the birds have already worked) and larvae of the first instar is generally striking. True, in the course of development, larvae can also be exterminated by natural enemies, but the number at the egg stage, by definition, will not allow any insect to register as a rarity... By the way, it is very important to clarify whether we are talking about the rarity of an insect (a species, for example) within the entire range or a smaller territory, because these are completely different things. Or we will have to discuss here all possible options for the issue interspersed.

If we ignore the factor of anthropogenic influence on biotopes (which can put an end not only to insect species), then we should consider the so – called waves of life as the main direct factor of rarity or infrequency (and their own factors-for a dozen separate topics). This means that an entomologist, in order not to suffer on the edge of the grave from the consciousness of incompleteness of the impressions received, needs to live for a hundred or one and a half years, during which time he will have time to observe all the more or less possible species for a given area from the heart. Now I would definitely write down some taraxaci as a rare species for the Ministry of Defense, although-with its extensive range-somewhere in Europe it is much more numerous than in the Ministry of Defense. But it is encouraging to think that even twenty years ago, I would have thought that mass production in xanthomelas or vau-album would have been no more likely than in taraxaci. The Ministry of Defense has seen a lot of such "rarities" bred over the past decades, and no species is immune from them. Theoretically, any insect (including even the most hated mass synanthropes) can turn into a rarity and banality. If the areal factor allows, everything else is just a matter of time.

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11.10.2011 13:39, Pirx

Let's not worry too much, because five days ago in Serpukhov, which is already an industrial city for a long time, a new plant for the production of ceramic plates was opened. Maybe they'll make one for Apollo, too...

Two comments on the issue submitted for discussion. First. It is difficult to understand what the question is about: about insects in general (or at least within a certain place: for example, cockroaches and ants disappeared in a separate apartment), about populations, about subspecies, about species?

Second. The wording "reliable facts of the natural rarity of any insects", which most likely refers to species, should still be clarified: either specify that we are talking about any stages, or indicate which specific stages we are talking about (and it would also not hurt to clarify this aspect in the topic). For the same species within a certain territory, the number even at the adult stage is very mobile, and the difference in number between adults (especially when the birds have already worked) and larvae of the first instar is generally striking. True, in the course of development, larvae can also be exterminated by natural enemies, but the number at the egg stage, by definition, will not allow any insect to register as a rarity... By the way, it is very important to clarify whether we are talking about the rarity of an insect (a species, for example) within the entire range or a smaller territory, because these are completely different things. Or we will have to discuss here all possible options for the issue interspersed.

If we ignore the factor of anthropogenic influence on biotopes (which can put an end not only to insect species), then we should consider the so – called waves of life as the main direct factor of rarity or infrequency (and their own factors-for a dozen separate topics). This means that an entomologist, in order not to suffer on the edge of the grave from the consciousness of incompleteness of the impressions received, needs to live for a hundred or one and a half years, during which time he will have time to observe all the more or less possible species for a given area from the heart. Now I would definitely write down some taraxaci as a rare species for the Ministry of Defense, although-with its extensive range-somewhere in Europe it is much more numerous than in the Ministry of Defense. But it is encouraging to think that even twenty years ago, I would have thought that mass production in xanthomelas or vau-album would have been no more likely than in taraxaci. The Ministry of Defense has seen a lot of such "rarities" bred over the past decades, and no species is immune from them. Theoretically, any insect (including even the most hated mass synanthropes) can turn into a rarity and banality. If the areal factor allows, everything else is just a matter of time.

Thank you, I am very grateful for clarifying questions that I could not have formulated better myself.

1. I meant the COMPLETE disappearance of a species or other taxonomic unit, which excludes the assumption of "waves of life". It is clear that there is not necessarily a disappearance throughout the entire range, but for clarity, it is better, of course, to find clear examples, the same dispar in Britain.

2. At all stages. Here I do not agree that all insects tend to "massively throw eggs into nature", i.e. represent organisms with r-type selection (MacArthur & Wilson, 1967 - The theory of island biogeography). I don't see any reason why K-selected insects can't exist in principle. Yes, and rare - within the entire range.

Why I ask. It was suggested by the discussion I don't remember in what topic (I think, in the Red Books or something similar) of the rarity of the species. I gave an example of the rarity of the sirphid genus Callicera. The range of observations of species is at least 100 years, all species are very rare, larvae in hollows, etc. The British and other Europeans repeatedly searched for different stages of the genus's species-and found them. But always in small numbers, single individuals of imago or larvae, no clusters. Food trees for larvae were studied, at different trunk heights, in undisturbed forests (in disturbed ones they are practically absent). Callicera rufa, for example, for British dipterologists is generally quoted as a checkiniole in the Crimea for beetles, so to speak. That is, all species of the genus in all their ranges are characterized by a consistently low number. This, at least, is my opinion based on literature, Internet sources, and conversations with various sirfidologists. This example may be incorrect, but it still seems to me that nothing prevents a number of insect species from " taking not by number, but by skill."

This post was edited by Pirx - 11.10.2011 14: 04

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11.10.2011 13:59, Pirx

If I understood correctly, the main question was-are there any insect species that were exterminated precisely by collectors/entomologists with nets and test tubes, and not by collective farmers and other loggers/urban planners with shovels and bulldozers? And really interesting, by the way...

And it was interesting. I understand that asking such questions in the environment of collectors (which, in fact, I myself am) it's kind of awkward. Let me clarify my position, just in case, but rather banal - I believe that collectors, of course, will not catch anything and did not catch it. But, I'm afraid, it's just from the imperfection of fishing gear or from the inability to use more advanced ones. Nevertheless, the senile Mesozoic moans in some modern (unfortunately) Red Books about the prohibition of fishing by collectors, of course, are militant ignorance, relict cries of yehu, very exciting to the regulatory authorities.

This post was edited by Pirx - 11.10.2011 14: 02

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12.10.2011 6:56, А.Й.Элез

Here I do not agree that all insects tend to "massively throw eggs into nature", i.e. represent organisms with r-type selection... I don't see any reason why K-selected insects can't exist in principle.

Do you disagree just because you don't see any reason why plankton with offspring of two or three wiry beetles could not exist in principle, or because you already know insects with so-called K-selection? I've come to think of so-called g-selection as a sign of class (perhaps because I don't know a whole bunch of groups, or because I don't trust what I've read). So I would be interested to hear from competent people about specific exceptions, not the abstract lack of reasons for their absence. A presumption of nonexistence, so to speak.

for clarity, it is better, of course, to find clear examples, the same dispar in Britain.

The nominative dyspara lived in wet biotopes, so it is quite possible that those who attribute its extinction to the draining of swamps in the Cambridgeshire are right. But I would, given the ability of our subspecies to live also in fairly dry (sometimes settled down!)areas. However, I would also like to take a closer look at the reaction of the feed plant to industrial emissions.

I gave an example of the rarity of the sirphid genus Callicera. The range of observations of species is at least 100 years, all species are very rare, larvae in hollows, etc. The British and other Europeans repeatedly searched for different stages of the genus's species-and found them. But always in small numbers, single individuals of imago or larvae, no clusters. Food trees for larvae were studied, at different trunk heights, in undisturbed forests (in disturbed ones they are practically absent). Callicera rufa, for example, for British dipterologists is generally quoted as a checkiniole in the Crimea for beetles, so to speak. That is, all species of the genus in all their ranges are characterized by a consistently low number. This, at least, is my opinion based on literature, Internet sources, and conversations with various sirfidologists. This example may be incorrect, but it still seems to me that nothing prevents a number of insect species from " taking not by number, but by skill."

That may be true of those sirfids, but all I can see from what you've said so far is that they're rare, but that's true of many species whose g-fecundity is unmistakable. And what kind of" skill " in relation to the specified genus can we talk about? From what you have just said, neither low fecundity nor high survivability can yet be inferred; the same can be said for any xylophage that is exposed to natural enemies from the earliest instars of the larval stage. Or in Britain, relatively speaking, there are no woodpeckers in undisturbed forests? There wasn't an experiment to exterminate natural enemies, was there? So they fatten up on the prolific sirfids, and entomologists wonder where the fertility has gone. There may also be a high mortality rate of early-instar larvae due to any causes that may still need to be determined. Perhaps this path should be followed until it is completely exhausted, and not immediately take on the version not just about lower fecundity, but even about K-selection in an insect. Or-wait for a good year, when the view will fly in clouds. The only real thing here is that there are no clusters of larvae, but even this does not mean "K-selection". In general, there are enough similar situations for other groups: read only old - and, by the way, also long-term and multilingual-stories about osmoderma; and they all breed well, the entomologist only needs to come in a good year and before the woodpecker, so up to seven imagos from one trunk and larvae from a hundred, and after all how many years the beetle - even at very venerable coleopterologists-in "hermits" went.

By the way, what do morphological studies of females of this genus say? and have eggs been laid under artificial conditions? In a hundred years, I suppose, you have already tested these paths?

This post was edited by A. J. Elez - 12.10.2011 07: 25

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12.10.2011 9:08, Pirx

Do you disagree just because you don't see any reason why plankton with offspring of two or three wiry beetles could not exist in principle, or because you already know insects with so-called K-selection? I've come to think of so-called g-selection as a sign of class (perhaps because I don't know a whole bunch of groups, or because I don't trust what I've read). So I would be interested to hear from competent people about specific exceptions, not the abstract lack of reasons for their absence. A presumption of nonexistence, so to speak...

Looks like you're right. We'll look forward to Callitzer's "black cloud" sometime. r-selection is probably really a sign of a class, although I myself was also interested in possible or real-world examples of K-species of insects. "Ability", perhaps, could be expressed in over-caring for offspring (classical K-selection), a long life span of adults and larvae (there are exceptions, such as a 17-year-old cicada, but I do not think that its imago lasts more than 1-2 years). But the rarity may be (in order of assumption) caused by the super-limited "volume" of the food resource against the background of unique adaptations for its long-range search and development - a kind of dead-end branches, where only one insect species performs ecological functions at the level of, say, a phytophage. Perhaps such truncated skinny food pyramids can be, but something does not come to mind. After all, billions of years of evolution have encouraged biota to utilize food collectively and competitively.

About oviposition-they lay singly, but the data on potential fecundity is unclear-the order of something tens or hundreds, nothing unusual, but not cod spawning. But there are also goodies - it is in this genus that the unique variation of the larval development period for sirfids (among the well-known ones, of course) is noted, from 1 to 5 years, depending on the conditions for gaining "critical" body mass and size before pupation. Moreover, this genus is also known for the phenomenon of asynchronous summer of adults in remote populations, which is unique for Palearctic sirfids-saprophages. In Britain, C. spinolae (=golden hoverfly) flies in autumn, on mainland Europe, from France to Greece-May-July.

P.S. I apologize for the lack of multiple quoting, my browser is always buggy because of it.

P.P.S.
in a good year and before the woodpecker-I suggest to the top mottos of the year

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12.10.2011 9:26, Pirx

Probably the fauna of insects in the era of dinosaurs was interesting, what scarabs were then and what balls they rolled?

It was much more fun in the air! Since these pterosaur parasites died out along with their food, it's a little off-top

STRASHILA INCREDIBILIS.pdf
http://rghost.ru/25248871

вики:
"Nakridletia (from the Slavic: na kridle = "on wings" referring to the hypothesis that these insects probably lived on the wings of Pterosaurs) are an extinct Mesozoic order of holometabolous insects, comprising three genera and species (Strashila incredibilis, Vosila sinensis and Parazila saurica) in two families (Strashilidae and Vosilidae).[1] The proposed English vernacular name is paragliders. All known fossils stem from the Jurassic of Siberia and China.[1] The insects were wingless and had enlarged grasping hind legs, and were probably ectoparasites of pterosaurs. The character of the genital appendages suggests a close relationship with Mecoptera.[1]"

This post was edited by Pirx - 12.10.2011 09: 30

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