Let's save the site "Beetles and coleopterologists"

Yeah.... we need to send them to our colleagues...

"Reform of the Russian Academy of Sciences" in action!! Your division...

Well, this modernization of science has reached ZIN... In general, it is strange-now all state institutions are required to have their own websites and display their rapid activity and ultimately their need on them... On invertebrates on the Zinovsky site, the most presentable project was, is and remains precisely for beetles (and by and large, why not more...??? which has always surprised and surprises me... where can we say the same project on lepidoptera??). To maintain it, you must have two people (and more than one!) keep on rate (well, to do science for your group of animals) because now it is the most important tool for development. collection and promotion of scientific information in the world. Well, if they want to go overboard... that is, they are not interested in development ... then, of course, they will first fill up the site... For the" chiseling " of the new Zinovsky authorities, I think it will be enough to connect the REO departments in the field! Let them write letters!! Find out who exactly to write them to (full name and position) and where to hang their electronic versions on the Zinovsky website!?
The transition of the electronic resource of Russian buggers to free swimming will certainly be a huge blow to science!! Yes, we need to write reports about this in scientific journals, of which we are currently publishing quite a few-and the more of them the better (that is, to widely voice the problem). I can imagine how surprised the WEST will be at these innovations in the science of the Russian Federation... What a shame it is... No one will just let you copy someone else's product.. especially from the website of a state institution.

This post was edited by Penzyak - 11.02.2014 17: 05

Penzyak, where to write it is written the same:


It is worth sending such a letter to the director and academic secretary - director@zin.ru and office@zin.ru
http://www.zin.ru/fback_r.htm

No need to rely on someone and wait for them to write. Have thoughts and opportunity, send (all!) emails sent to the specified addresses.

Like in the movie - "Sama, sama!"

I also asked in Russian-Full name and position (you can in PM).
In principle, I am the secretary of the Penza branch of REO. And if there are not enough representatives of other branches on our site , then this is their problem... What does it have to do with ... " Herself... sama" - I don't remember such a movie...
For me, it's better as in the "White Sun of the Desert" ...
- What are you doing here?
- They were shooting!...

If you'll excuse me, I'm all for the development of entolmogic sites, and I think that ZIN has absolutely not enough of them, but I'm just asking you to explain what the relationship is between abbreviations in ZIN (we are probably talking about bids?) and closing the electronic resource? Or is it something to do with the fact that the Russian Academy of Sciences is trying to "rejuvenate" science and somehow introduce young specialists into the staff? How is the site tied to this? Or is it no longer possible to do it at home, in a quiet environment?

This post was edited by dim-va - 11.02.2014 17: 17

Penzyak,

You asked in Russian: Find out who exactly to write them to and where to hang their electronic versions on the ZINO website!?

and then corrected the text by adding "(full name and position) " - - - mmmm........

The full name of the director is available on the same ZIN website.

Cinema - "Railway station for two".


dim-va,

related in the most direct way: AL Lobanov at a bet in ZIN. There will be no person, no one will take the trouble to update the site. It's not the location that matters more, but the updates.

Thank you.
Does he work as an entomologist or website specialist?

If you'll excuse me, I'm all for the development of entolmogic sites, and I think that ZIN has absolutely not enough of them, but I'm just asking you to explain what the relationship is between abbreviations in ZIN (we are probably talking about bids?) and closing the electronic resource? Or is it something to do with the fact that the Russian Academy of Sciences is trying to "rejuvenate" science and somehow introduce young specialists into the staff? How is the site tied to this? Or is it no longer possible to do it at home, in a quiet environment?

The site is located on the ZINA server and can only be accessed inside the building itself (not at home!). If A. L. is reduced, then the site will not be needed by anyone and it will be removed from the server.

It is a crime to close the Zinovsky website!!! This is the best Russian-language site on beetles!!!

This post was edited by Black Coleopter - 02/11/2014 18: 21

In this situation, I think it is best to use the advice from Stas Korb (url#4 in this topic), and not to breed demagoguery. There are very few very good private sites in the network, which even without the support of our rotten state feel great. Just place the site on another hosting in case of closure and that's it. And the site is necessary and very sorry to lose it will be .

And who will pay for hosting?

And who will pay for hosting?

Well, if the site is necessary and not the state. After all, people pay for hosting their sites out of their own pocket and have nothing in return but respect.

I think Stas ' idea is a good one! If there is someone who can copy the site and run it somewhere else, in case of a specific threat of its closure at some point, then I agree to pay for hosting plus some money to a person who can update it until I get poorer. This can be considered a guarantee. I don't want anything for that.

I think Stas ' idea is a good one! If there is someone who can copy the site and run it somewhere else, in case of a specific threat of its closure at some point, then I agree to pay for hosting plus some money to a person who can update it until I get poorer. This can be considered a guarantee. I don't want anything for that.

The experiment has started (there is nothing to do now anyway)
Half a terabyte I think is enough for it:

Pictures:

pic.jpg — (86.95к)

I think that first of all you need to save a person-a specialist A. L. Lobanov, who gave 15 years of his life to the site! If it stays, the site will still be alive. The site can be saved without Lobanov, the management can find some young laboratory assistant on it. But whether the new curator of the site will put his soul and strength into it, as Andrey Lvovich did, is a big question!!!

Yes, and also to save those young and talented guys who could move entomological science, based on modern methods, which now can not get through not only to early childhood institutions, but also to universities, since all the stakes there are densely occupied by pensioners, who very often not only do not publish in their direct specialty, but also work in the field of entomology. in general, they do little in the profile of their direct duties. With my deep respect for AL, I still believe that the site can be enjoyed not at the workplace, but at home. And certainly not to encourage people to write letters to the directorate.

Yes, and also With my deep respect for AL, I still believe that the site can be enjoyed not at the workplace, but at home. And certainly not to encourage people to write letters to the directorate.

The site can and can be done at home, but who will pay someone who will pull this difficult cart? Yes, Lobanov works regardless of time, investing everything in his favorite brainchild. But now what - make it do the same thing for free? How long can you exploit your enthusiasm?

I want to clarify the situation. There is a massive misconception here. No one is going to "close" the bug site on ZINA's site. What for? Why should I? It's strange that I have to comment on this nonsense. The worst thing that threatens the bug site is the termination of updates and freezing in its current state.

Lobanov has not been involved in science for a long time, and his reduction does not look unexpected. Supporting an amateur website is great, but it shouldn't be the only job a researcher does. Not only employees are being cut, but also a lot of other people who are no less worthy. I'm not saying it's good, but it happens, and that's life.

It is clear that everyone fights in their own way to save their bet. Some people have more opportunities to do this - for example, there is a popular website that allows you to call for popular support, and you can try to blackmail the management by fictitious closing it.

I want to clarify the situation. There is a massive misconception here. No one is going to "close" the bug site on ZINA's site. What for? Why should I? It's strange that I have to comment on this nonsense. The worst thing that threatens the bug site is the termination of updates and freezing in its current state.

Lobanov has not been involved in science for a long time, and his reduction does not look unexpected. Supporting an amateur website is great, but it shouldn't be the only job a researcher does. Not only employees are being cut, but also a lot of other people who are no less worthy. I'm not saying it's good, but it happens, and that's life.

It is clear that everyone fights in their own way to save their bet. Some people have more opportunities to do this - for example, there is a popular website that allows you to call for popular support, and you can try to blackmail the management by fictitious closing it.

How actively anonymous called honest people to passivity. "Such is life"! If "I don't say that this is good", then they would be silent, and not support this "such is life". And maybe not only life is like this, but also specific subjects that we too often do not interfere with making decisions. A person has spent years developing an exemplary systematic scientific website, which was funded by the Russian Foundation for Basic Research for a number of years - that is, the foundation is not for" amateur "and" popular " research, but for basic research, so you should know, read the site's start page; even one three-year funding from these misers, especially for the site, already says something.

Even freezing a systematic site is almost like destroying it. And it is ridiculous to console Lobanov and us with the fact that "not only employees are being cut, but also many other people who are no less worthy." Yes, academic directorates have always been blessed with this, which is why normal people did not spare their fiefdoms during all these reforms; but they would have learned to keep the "no less worthy" ones, and reduce the less worthy ones, otherwise everyone tries to do the opposite. We need to console ourselves not with the fact that other abbreviated ones are also worthy people, but with the fact that such completely worthy ones will be left behind. In specific cases, you should try to correct your superiors, but the strange term "blackmail the management" is an attempt to blackmail those who care.

If the author did not think to introduce himself in hindsight, his incognito can be considered intentional, caused by his correct assessment of the scientific level and moral level of the position he presented.

Of course, no one is going to close the site. What for? It is enough to expel a person who gives him all the time and soul, and the site itself will be bent.
The phrase "The worst thing that threatens the bug site is the termination of updates and freezing in its current state" could only be written by a person who is indifferent to this section of science. I think this is someone from among the MANAGERS of this institute, who himself has nothing to do with science.
How good the Internet is in this case-I wrote an anonymous letter and that's it. I did a trick and no responsibility. However, this anonymous letter allows an objective assessment of his scientific and moral level.
This is a skin-eating beetle in the collection. And what to do with these beetles knows every collector!

I recommend:
Copy the entire site to any media. So it can be launched on another site. I am ready to provide one of my own.

Stas, will the site address and all links be saved if you move it to another server? and how feasible is it from a technical point of view? After all, as I understand it, the ZIN server is not simple.
Maybe you will have an opportunity to write to Andrey Lvovich and explain? Otherwise, my knowledge in this area is zero.
So, at least, it will be possible to save the site if they suddenly want to clean up the server.

Stas, will the site address and all links be saved if you move it to another server? and how feasible is it from a technical point of view? After all, as I understand it, the ZIN server is not simple.
Maybe you will have an opportunity to write to Andrey Lvovich and explain? Otherwise, my knowledge in this area is zero.
So, at least, it will be possible to save the site if they suddenly want to clean up the server.

At least it is perfectly mirrored using HTTrack Website Copier and with zheskogo starts yesterday tried.

Links will be saved without any problems, and everything is automatically parsed without any problems either.

Here is the site address-yes, it won't be saved if you run it from another site.
But we are talking about if the site is actually closed (i.e. the domain or subdomain really ceases to exist).

It seems to me that this brainchild of Lobanov is worth a lot of real money and no one will just throw this money into the furnace if he is not a fool.
As for cuts, the current "reforms" are particularly inhumane and cynical. Our institute has long since begun to transfer all" retired " candidates to a half-rate (or even a quarter). So it is even surprising that 73-year-old Andrey Lvovich was "tolerated" until now. Apparently there are not quite animals in the administration.


One of the most significant points of the current reform is the rejuvenation of science. But not by the method of "monkey ovary transplantation", but by looking for young nuggets, while completely forgetting on whose shoulders these nuggets stand. The government reports on the well-deserved achievements of young people as its own, and is not shy about the fact that they were achieved not because of, but in spite of these reforms. Take at least the success of Alexey Polilov, even the figure skater Lipnitskaya....

This post was edited by scarabee - 12.02.2014 14: 28

I was quite surprised that the fr5UBzpi/xUN2 guest classified the site as "amateur", even though it was supported by grants from the Russian Foundation for Basic Research and the State Scientific and Technical Program (SSTP). The opinion of professional entomologists, i.e. researchers, about the "amateur" or "professional" nature of the resource is interesting.

And what does "doing science"mean? It seems that different people perceive this activity differently. And in critical situations, some try to convince themselves that a narrower understanding will serve as a comforting excuse and a convenient reason for administrative decisions (forced, i.e. lowered from above).

This post was edited by Dima DD-12.02.2014 14: 44

Yes, and also to save those young and talented guys who could move entomological science, based on modern methods, which now can not get through not only to early childhood institutions, but also to universities, since all the stakes there are densely occupied by pensioners, who very often not only do not publish in their direct specialty, but also work in the field of entomology. in general, they do little in the profile of their direct duties. With my deep respect for AL, I still believe that the site can be enjoyed not at the workplace, but at home. And certainly not to encourage people to write letters to the directorate.

I support your position, but the question is, is it about replacing or reducing the unit? And why wasn't the project team created?
In general, it all looks strange, the site is essentially state-owned and is a business card, they should have created a team to work with this site for a long time, because one person can't do this forever. It's just surreal.
In the end, there is such a thing as a pension and a well-deserved rest, sometimes it's just a pity to see professors who are 80 years old, and they go to university every day...

You all, who unsubscribe about inhuman cynicism, drive your own science into the coffin, and then you just hear where they say progress, why we are not ahead of the whole planet. Yes, because, under the union, it so happened that at one time scientific schools started with young progressive cadres, the result was well-known to everyone, then many clung to the chairs, and again the result is on the face.
If the structure is not rejuvenated and there are no substitutions, it ceases to exist..This is the basis of life and the law of nature. And no cynicism.

Dima DD, I think that the guest fr5UBzpi / xUN2 knows what he is saying, because I found out who it is, cryptanalysis rules
And the anonymity is not caused by what Elez wrote, but rather by the fact that it is difficult to tell the truth about the system, being inside it.
But you need to! Many of you have already passed the USSR here, when everyone said: "everything is fine, beautiful marchioness", and then only once - and no! No, and that's it.

Unfortunately, the situation is hopeless.
In my memory, ALL tried several times to find an assistant / successor. Without success.That is, there is no hope for the development of the site in the ZIN without Lobanov.
Moving the site to another site is, in my opinion, a dubious act. You can still consider whether ALL himself could have done it. But that someone took and moved, even with the knowledge of ALL-it's out of the question. And, perhaps, there will be legal problems.
There are a lot of sites, photos, etc. can be uploaded anywhere … But a ZIN isn't just about anywhere (by the way, a site isn't just about Bugs...). One of the reasons for the site's success was its existence on the basis of an extensive and rather phlegmatic institution, which allowed us to do without boiling passions. Moving to any other location means losing such a position and, in the near future, the demise of the site. That is, something will physically exist, but such a site will no longer exist.

"for a number of years, the Russian Foundation for Basic Research was funded by the Russian Foundation for Basic Research, not "amateur" and "popular" ones."
It wasn't a research grant.

"if only they would learn to keep the "no less worthy" ones and reduce the less worthy ones, otherwise everyone is trying to do the opposite"
You, of course, know better how to conduct personnel policy in ZINA than the ZINA directorates.

"It is enough to expel a person who gives him all the time and soul, and the site itself will be bent."
Probably, if the institute had unlimited funding and a number of rates, then no one would be fired.

"And what does' doing science ' mean? It seems that different people perceive this activity differently."
Doing science can only be understood in one way. This means conducting research and publishing the results in scientific publications. Only and only that. There are many professions that require serious scientific qualifications (in addition to supporting specialized websites, you can include, for example, editors of scientific journals), but they are not scientific work. It is strange that so many fierce "fighters for science" do not understand such simple things.

Since I have already been recorded as an enemy of beetles and science, I will explain. The beetle website is certainly an important popular science and publicly significant project. This is a useful auxiliary information resource, which includes professional entomologists. But in the truest sense of the word, this is not a scientific site. By itself, it does not solve any scientific problems.

Any project based on the enthusiasm of one person ends sooner or later. A professional entomologist is not required to support and maintain the site. This is mainly a technical job, although it requires a certain scientific qualification. Ideally, the site should be supported by employees who receive a salary for this particular job. But the appearance of such rates now (in addition to the existing ones) in ZINA looks unlikely, in conditions of uncertainty, when it is necessary to "live" reduce scientific rates.

I would advise interested parties to look for funds to support the site (pay employees) privately - to act as a sponsor or find a sponsor, and finally organize crowdfunding. Raising a few hundred pupaars a month is a real challenge. (After first asking AL if he agrees to work on such terms.) If AL decides to continue working on the site, working part-time or being a pensioner, no one at the institute will interfere with him - I'm almost sure of it.

PS Technically, moving the site to another resource is not a problem.

Just take a quick look at the ZINA web portal to see what a coleopterology site will turn into without a person like ALL. Many of the pages of other Zino sites have not been updated for years, and others were originally made a blunder, for "excuses". On these abandoned sites, long-dead scientists still "research", "go on expeditions", "lead graduate students". I don't want to mention the names of luminaries who have passed away, but it's a shame! It seems that ZINA does not realize the importance of their own image on the Internet, PR (in the good sense of the word). There are suspicions that the network no longer has a zoological site of such volume and completeness as the site of ALL. He should have been declared a national treasure, not left to die slowly but inevitably. The successor / assistant of ALL can't be found, because, apparently, they are looking for the same ascetic who will give the site all his strength and time for a symbolic reward regardless of anything. But if you can't find such a person, you need to look for another one - a cool specialist for normal money. Look for a stable sponsor. But for all this, you need to understand that the site is not a beautiful, but useless decoration, that it is no less important than the description of another new type or the publication of an article.

Clearly, an ambush: according to the formal signs, so, alas. But is it possible to somehow move(s) at a higher rank level? We need to do something to encourage the state to finally try to take into account modern realities and create rates in institutions for such important and necessary work, which is carried out on a regular basis and takes a lot of time. So that scientists (in a broader sense, rather than just researchers who are published in printed scientific publications) are engaged in such work not on a voluntary basis, but also legally receive well-deserved help from the Russian Academy of Sciences, from the state, and are not thrown overboard under the pretext of inconsistency of their position and age.

It is also important that this problem concerns not only ZIN, but also other RAS institutes that are trying to develop such successful Internet resources.

This post was edited by Dima DD-12.02.2014 23: 28

Who is in favor of crowdfunding? Make a voting system. And the minimum fee must be set. For priming, the rate in Zina for CBN is about 20 thousand (?) If you limit yourself to 15 thousand, then you need 180 thousand per year...

new bids in institutes

Yes, it's not the stakes that need to appear, but people, people who are just that enthusiastic, regardless of the rewards, will do their job. They may be there, but will they be able to get along in the "system"? Alas, loot has long won and good, and even evil )) so, so further - it will only get worse (tm)

Yes, it's not the stakes that need to appear, but people, people who are just that enthusiastic, regardless of the rewards, will do their job.

It is important that a person is not a thousand-armed Shiva and cannot split and send his double to work closely on the resource while he himself conducts research, writes articles, fights with reviewers and compiles reports...

This post was edited by Dima DD-12.02.2014 23: 35

Uh-huh, and Andrey Lvovich was also such a Shiva? Have you ever seen any sites that are personally managed by our participants? By the way, no one seems to pay them.
If you have the desire and enthusiasm, then you will do everything, and if you think about paying, you will find a thousand reasons not to do more than necessary, and even the most necessary things are true Zhyzni

Although, of course, the state should do this, not just pay thousands of pupaars directly for such sites, but provide hosting and data security guarantees-it should, well, this is the very culture, popularization.

Yes, it's not the stakes that need to appear, but people, people who are just that enthusiastic, regardless of the rewards, will do their job. They may be there, but will they be able to get along in the "system"? Alas, loot has long won and good, and even evil )) therefore, therefore, further - it will only get worse (tm)

Regardless of the reward?
And the family of such people what to feed? Websites? )))

Here a counter-question arises - is it supposed to" feed the family " at the expense of the entomological site? )))

The family is supposed to be fed from income.
Earnings are time multiplied by the reward.
Accordingly, if time is not rewarded, there is no income, and the family does not eat anything at this time.
And the more time is not rewarded, the less the family eats.
I never thought I would explain such things =) .