Let's save the site "Beetles and coleopterologists"

Well, great, let all families eat more, bon appetit
But for some reason I thought that income is a reward for the products produced. Time is money, soldier (student) is sleeping, term(stepukha) is running

Well, great, let all families eat more, bon appetit
But for some reason I thought that income is a reward for the products produced. Time is money, the soldier (student) is sleeping, the term (stepukha) is coming

And in your opinion, maintaining and updating the site for "products" does not pull?

No, it's not possible to communicate in this way... Vitaminich, tell me, although, no, you don't need to "say", the question is rhetorical, just, that's where you got it from.. What I think.. what does the site not offer for products?
Right. Nowhere.

Here our participants have a website "Butterflies of the Caucasus", "Butterflies of the Crimea", many participants share pictures and descriptions of their hikes and expeditions, or in the end just write on the forum. And they don't get paid for it. And they share and write. And yet, yes, these are products.

If the site is on the balance sheet of the institute, then it is logical that the person who will be engaged in it should receive something. He gets it. And I hope it will continue to be received, no matter who that person is.
It's surreal...

I want to suggest a "global" idea. It could save this vital resource and help develop new ones. Entomological Society of Russia. Or the Eurasian Entomological Society. The name and "size" are not the point. Let's decide. Create such a society. Amateurs and professionals of entomology. With a large site. Transfer this" abolished " resource there, with the consent of its author-making it a coleopterological section of the site. For the lepidopterological department, it is necessary to attract Berlov's" abandoned " project. Maybe even transfer the best sections of our forum to the company's website, with the permission of the founders. Let's think about it. The Entomological Society and the site, with these and its other divisions, will live off the contributions of members. In addition, it will be possible to publish a scientific journal. I am willing to pay up to 100 Yandex units per year for membership in the society, website content, and a magazine. I think you can find many others who want to be part of such a society. Including among foreigners-by supporting the English version of the site and magazine.
A huge country, and we have nothing but the Russian Entomological Society "frozen" in the penultimate century. Maybe you shouldn't even create a new one, but try to modernize the current one, within the framework I have outlined. Only the REO leadership, I think, will not go for such a revolution. To "merge" with amateurs not only in membership, but also in the website, forum, and publications is too radical for the "harsh" our scientific elite. This is in the USA there is a Lepidopterist's Society, NABA and other entomological societies, where both amateurs and pros, and a general website, and magazines, and various meetings of "everyone with everyone"... At us - "it's at us". And therefore - a separate society. It's time! For such a huge country, where there are so many entomology enthusiasts and such a history on this topic. Much smaller countries have similar societies, or even more than one: with serious websites, magazines, etc., and we still have a pathetic REO web page and a very modest "periodical". Here, of course, you will need to create an "organization pool". Hold a constituent assembly. I am not ready to act as the main organizer. "Not mine", for a number of reasons. But I am ready to participate in some areas of the society's work. For example, advertise it in the country and the world, to gain new members and, perhaps, sponsors. I am ready to do this for free.
Here's an idea. You can criticize it any way you want. But I am sure that in time we will have such a society. And it has a separate entomological site. In order to further develop and grow our favorite business, "we need to go somewhere". For everything that stands still dies. Everything that moves is alive.

For comparison: the website of the Entomological Society of America...


and such a native Russian...

I will not be a "nationalist". It would be better to create a Eurasian entomological society. It doesn't have to be headquartered in Russia, but it can be in Ukraine (forgive me if someone is annoyed-in Ukraine), because there are more entomologists per capita than in Russia, and foreigners will be more willing to join the society-without seeing it as a new expansion of Moscow.

This post was edited by Wild Yuri - 02/14/2014 00: 31

An original idea for a new "Entomological Society", especially remembering the instructive history of the MOIP section, which existed in full health for more than one decade and died safely. However,..... revived under the leadership of Oleg Gorbunov in the hypostasis of the "Entomological Seminar" (for which he is eternally grateful). I think the idea of reform, merger and other actions with the existing REO is quite utopian, due to the extreme slowness, conservatism and" distance "from the" people " of this organization. But it seems to me that the members, and especially the REO management, should think about the true goals and objectives. Not so much without belittling the merits, traditions, etc. of this respected organization, it is terribly far from the people. After all, one fine moment, the idea of creating an alternative, with a good website, with embodied ideas for popularizing science, with interesting projects not only within themselves, will come true, and it seems to me that no matter how much I would like it, many beginners, consider potential members of the REO, will not become them. All of the above is directly related to the reform of the Russian Academy of Sciences and the" reform " of the ZIN...... When I was a student, I often received colorful letters with booklets (still preserved) from a bunch of foreign EOS and Institutes. Yes, I just wrote to them that I was interested, and they immediately reacted to my passion.... just attention, for starters, and it certainly piqued my interest. There was information about projects, expeditions, even burzas. And try-ka you write in REO or even better in ZIN....... and what? At best, they will twist their finger at the temple. What? Isn't that right? Who will answer you there? One Lobanov? So he is alone....... and then, on personal enthusiasm. Science, dear official from the ZIN directorate, is certainly important, but who will do this science later? Do you have a lot of young specialists? Something tells me (or rather, I know for sure) that this is not the case. You need to save the situation, throw all your strength to make someone pay attention to your, and not only your, sinking part-time ship. You're already half gone. As recently as yesterday, I spoke with respected scientists, I'm sure you know, from Moscow State University, who have long been going to work 2 times a week. Yes, the salary was raised twice, and the rates were reduced.... the guarantor of the constitution received an excellent report. Yes, it is necessary to shout about this, and not to close resources..... although, perhaps this whole "tirade" is in vain.... You won't send yourself a part-time job, which means you probably don't need it. And it is not customary to shout at all corners about the real situation in our Scientific institutions.... they'll eat it, because it smells less and less of science. While everything is based on the fans, something will still be warm, but in 10-20 years we will still see the shame of the Russian Academy of Sciences, where the ghosts of enthusiasts and well-fed real officials will live, afterburning the last box with the collection devoured by kozheaters in the furnace. You should be looking for sponsors, not us, ideally if you think you should be looking for them. This site is exactly what YOU need. And I think you forgot, well, unless you were a great scientist by birth, that you were also once an amateur, and after all, you probably went to the circle...... Who needs your present without a future? You will simply be forgotten in this country, and you don't have to flatter yourself with vain hopes that someone will need your outstanding scientific works, you will be here in thirty years, with all due respect, and there will be no one to remember, because there will be no one here anymore..... Au....our future.....

This post was edited by Entoterra - 02/14/2014 13: 12

In 2012, during the preparation for the next XIV Congress of the Russian Entomological Society (August 27-September 1, 2012).St. Petersburg) the organizers in ZINA announced that for an ordinary member of the REO, 1 page of abstracts in the collection will cost 1 thousand rubles. Only the Tula and Penza branches of REO were outraged by such a predatory policy and directly stated it! And later it boycotted the REO congress itself. And that Bolshakov Lavra and I were supported by someone from entomologists of the Russian Federation and members of the REO?? No.
Well, something has changed in Russian entomology and in REO... nothing... only probably thanks to the noise raised on this site, the organizers of the congress for the first time printed theses not in a glued (one-time) edition, but in a sewn one, in the form of a book. Knowing the state of affairs with the REO branches in the Volga region, I can say with confidence that all regional REO branches are supported by the selfless work of enthusiastic entomologists - and if they leave for some reason from the post of chairman, secretary and treasurer of the REO branch, then the department quietly and peacefully orders everyone to live and cook further in their own juice... Alas, based on experience and practice-so it was, is and will be. And what will be the New / parallel REO of the Russian Federation, I see on the example of the Union of Writers of the Russian Federation and the new independent (read young) Union of writers of the Russian Federation... all strife and squabbling... But those at least have something to share... or you could say it was now...

Of course, you are right! I also think that creating something new is a utopian idea! Trying to" destroy " organizations with a century-old history is ungrateful, dangerous, and harmful. That's why we're trying to reach out! I'm just warning you that eventually someone will create an alternative, and then there will be a real threat of collapse to everything that has been created for centuries. After all, it is much more correct to thoroughly engage in science, while at the same time paying at least a little attention to popularizing and educating the future, than to be replaced by an alternative project dedicated exclusively to popularizing with science in the background. And the responsibility for this collapse will lie not only on the state, but also on the leadership and ordinary members of the aforementioned organizations. You need to fight, and most importantly, you need to understand the goals of existence. So far, at least in one of the main issues, the ZIN management, in my opinion, does not understand. One of the ways to fight is to attract attention! And then on "no "and" there is no trial".....
And one more question, probably off-topic, but relevant to everything that is happening. Why there is still a division of entomologists into " professionals "and" amateurs", for example, a person started studying entomology, wrote a couple of articles, and then became interested in ornithology.... who is he? And another bought a dissertation in one of the regional universities on entomology.... and who is he? And the third was engaged in forest science all his life, and then published a book on the butterflies of Russia.... and who is he? Until when will someone divide us into "amateurs" and"professionals"??? Who are these GODS and where do they sit? Who gave them this right? How can an entomologist not be a professional? He can sit quietly all his life, and then "give birth" to a unique job, ay-ay-ay, all his life he was ridiculed by respected people, they say an amateur, and then suddenly "join, gentlemen, join..."? Today I can drive a car and work as a taxi driver, and tomorrow not, and what happens.... an amateur taxi driver or a professional driver? There are collectors of beautiful frames, beautiful insects in these frames, of course! But they don't "go" to the ZIN site, they don't need it..... yet! But when this person, who is very far from science, begins to try to understand what is in his hands, tries to build some kind of system, starts asking questions and looking for answers to these questions..... who knows if he won't end up in the corresponding scientific institution in 10 years! The ZIN-a site is an entomological site and has NOTHING to do with the fictional status of its readers, and I consider speculation on this topic shameful!

This post was edited by Entoterra - 02/14/2014 14: 21

Wild Yuri, I will certainly write something very inconvenient again right now.. but I've spent some time reading some of the articles on the website of this American society.. including how they understand entomology and what their society does.
You know, they really do science there!

Look, it's written here in the booklet

http://entsoc.org/discover-entomology

It says that entomology is the science of insects and related groups of arthropods, such as spiders and scorpions.
And most importantly, why you need to study insects..
Because they, being mass representatives of living organisms, actively participate in human life, carry diseases, harm agricultural crops, as well as participate in the cycle of organic matter, regulate the number of other organisms and their own kind, insects are used to gain knowledge in the field of ecology, biology, medicine and other applied fields, expeditions for research and development of the environment. search for new insect species helps to understand their development and distribution, etc..

However... something is missing here