Survival analysis

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ihlindham, 12.06.2017 18:00

Good time of day.

Faced with the following question. Indicators of "survival" (insects in particular). I write in quotation marks because I do not find specific formulas for the term "survival" in textbooks, monographs, or scientific articles. There are methods for analyzing survival rates (highlighted without quotation marks) which are well described in monographs, protected in SPSS and other programs and the whole world uses them. For example, in English-language articles, you can often find the average survival time and so on. There is a well-known Kaplan-Meyer method, and there are many others. But nowhere in the Russian-language sources do I see a specific way to calculate the"survival rate". Meanwhile, these terms are very famously used in Russian-language scientific articles. The article says that they say, " the table below shows the survival rate of insects." The table itself is also loudly named " Survival Rate ...imus". But in the table header itself, the word "survival rate" does not appear. They write "individuals survived", "individuals died", etc. By the way, I see the same thing in medical publications. That is, according to my observation, the word "survival" is a kind of collective term that is not directly calculated or specified. That is, it is a certain class of concepts.

My question is: if I am still mistaken-tell me in which textbook or monograph (that is, in an authoritative scientific source) you can find the formula (or methodology)for calculating the "survival rate". I repeat, not the average survival time, not the average life expectancy, but the "survival rate".

This post was edited by ihlindham - 12.06.2017 18: 02

Comments

12.06.2017 18:29, Dmitrii Musolin

this is one of the basic parameters that are accepted by default. To be honest, it's hard for me to suggest offhand what else might be meant by survival. What are the options other than the share of survivors?

Steven L. Chown, Sue W. Nicolson. Insect Physiological Ecology: Mechanisms and Patterns (2004)

speaking of nutrition, give a link to

Scriber, J.M. and Slansky, F. (1981) The nutritional ecology of immature insects. Annual Review of Entomology 26, 183–211.

(pdf of the book Insect Physiological Ecology: Mechanisms and Patterns (2004) can be sent).

But the very concept of survival is also not given a separate definition.

Thank you, but I do not need "to taste", but - a specific authoritative literary source: authors, title, year of publication, publisher, chapter, page, methodology formula.

12.06.2017 18:35, ihlindham

this is one of the basic parameters that are accepted by default. To be honest, it's hard for me to suggest offhand what else might be meant by survival. What are the options other than the share of survivors?

But the very concept of survival is also not given a separate definition.

Thanks for the sources, but I already wrote above that I need a specific definition and calculation method. Otherwise, it is a "class of concepts", a kind of collective popular scientific "term", and not an indicator from statistical data processing in biology. I will also repeat - for the average survival time, for the median survival in the Kaplan-Meyer method, a specific calculation method is given in both Russian and English-language sources

12.06.2017 18:36, Dmitrii Musolin

Yes, I agree that it should be crystal clear from the works what is meant. But you're not going to explain in the article what you mean by "live insect" and "dead insect", right? And so it is clear.

But if you are studying chill coma, then you need to detail that you are looking at an insect 15 minutes after you have moved from cold (-5 C) to heat (+15C), and explain. why exactly do you use these temperatures and times?

And survival time should be explained, because its meaning is less obvious than just survival.

I look at Danks (1987) Insect Dormancy-also does not give a definition, because it clearly considers it understandable (I can also send a book).

Other sources don't come to mind.

Again , how else can we understand survival?

"They understand perfectly elementary things" is no good. I need a specific place in the monograph where the calculation method is described. In the Kaplan-Meier method, the average survival time has a specific calculation method. A similar one is needed for "survival".
Well, in my case it did. SPSS has a special method, indeed, as you rightly noted, survival. But there is an average survival time but not survival rate

Likes: 1

12.06.2017 18:48, ihlindham

Yes, I agree that it should be crystal clear from the works what is meant. But you're not going to explain in the article what you mean by "live insect" and "dead insect", right? And so it is clear.

But if you are studying chill coma, then you need to detail that you are looking at an insect 15 minutes after you have moved from cold (-5 C) to heat (+15C), and explain. why exactly do you use these temperatures and times?

And survival time should be explained, because its meaning is less obvious than just survival.

I look at Danks (1987) Insect Dormancy-also does not give a definition, because it clearly considers it understandable (I can also send a book).

Other sources don't come to mind.

Again , how else can we understand survival?

First of all, thank you for your really constructive attitude to the
question I raised. Secondly, it is not for nothing that I have repeatedly mentioned the Kaplan-Meyer method here. It really details the survival analysis. After all, even in Wikipedia there is no article "Survival". There is an article called "Survival Analysis"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survival_analysis

https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Анализ_выживаемости

And in English-language scientific articles, calculations are made using the Kaplan-Meier method, counting the average survival time.

12.06.2017 18:57, Dmitrii Musolin

All right. But my colleague and I have already mentioned that things get more complicated when it comes to survival TIME. Survival itself is understood to be %% alive after some time. Even on your links write:

To answer such questions, it is necessary to define "lifetime". In the case of biological survival, death is unambiguous, but for mechanical reliability, failure may not be well-defined...

In our articles, we do not define what an insect is, whether it is alive or dead, whether it eats or drinks.

The Kaplan-Meyer method, if I remember correctly, introduces a series of indexes. Then, indeed, you need to give definitions and formulas to everything.

The third (and last)time Once again, what is an alternative definition of survival?

12.06.2017 19:22, ihlindham

The third (and last)time Once again, what is an alternative definition of survival?

My answer is that I don't know. At this stage of my research, I do not introduce new concepts or develop new methods for statistical data processing in biology. In this particular case, I am looking for a definition in educational literature and monographs. In addition, the "alternative" can only be something. What alternative can we talk about if we haven't decided on the original source yet ? In addition, I have suggested here that "survival" is a kind of collective concept, a kind of"class of concepts". And yet - "survival" often appears in popular scientific literature on medicine and in advertising releases on the websites of medical clinics (mainly oncology) and journalism on the medical topic-journalists also use this term.

All right. But my colleague and I have already mentioned that things get more complicated when it comes to survival TIME... The Kaplan-Meyer method, if I remember correctly, introduces a series of indexes.

The Kaplan-Meyer method certainly takes time into account. How else can it be ?

In our articles, we do not define what an insect is, whether it is alive or dead, whether it eats or drinks.

Indeed, concepts are mainly given in textbooks and monographs. Articles bring new information to science. Although there are exceptions - first, in some articles new concepts are still introduced, and second, in some articles some already existing concepts are detailed. Including from matstatistics

This post was edited by ihlindham - 12.06.2017 19: 23

12.06.2017 20:28, Dmitrii Musolin

When it comes to survival analysis, a whole set of indicators is analyzed - this is survival, survival time, and the dependence of survival on external factors.

But if we're talking about survival as an elementary stat. indicators, then it is understood in biology as I wrote above-n/N.

It is more difficult in medical jobs, because working with people, you can complicate everything

, but also in your links:

Survival is usually expressed as the proportion of patients alive at the end of a certain period, from the number of patients alive at the initial date of observation. I.e., just n/N.

It's the same as you can talk about LIFE (and discuss different aspects and aspects) and the dichotomy of Living/Inanimate.

Likes: 1

14.06.2017 16:11, ihlindham

I looked at the document: state Standard of Ukraine 4757: 2007 - "Industrial entomology Terms and definitions" (I translate the name of the standard and the rest here into Russian)

It reads as follows:

The entomoculture mortality rate is the ratio of the number of insects that died in the entomoculture per year or per generation due to the influence of mortality factors on it to the initial number of entomocultures, in fractions or as a percentage.

With links to the following sources:

1. Afanasyev, I. N.; Vasetsky, S. G.; Vasina-Popova, E. T. et al.
English-Russian Biological Dictionary
Publisher: Moscow: Russian language
Hardcover: 732 pages; 1976

2. Dictionary of biological protection of plants from pests: Biology, ecology, application of software.: textbook. stipend

Author: S. S. Izhevsky →
Publishing House: Academy →
ISBN: 5-7695-1082
Pages: 208

I personally don't see any other definitions in the standard. That is, it is not survival, but - mortality

This post was edited by ihlindham - 14.06.2017 17: 36