Underground life

I haven't heard anything, but I don't think it should be, they still need air.. And what are they supposed to do there

Who knows

Well, if crustaceans live in these underground reservoirs, then there is air there... And in the Caucasus, there are endemic insect species in caves. But so that in the middle lane this was not heard.

We need to ask around diggers, or cavers. They may not tell you about the water ones, but they will remember something about the dungeons.

In general, how high (or low) is the oxygen content in underground waters - maybe someone knows?

This post was edited by Fornax13-12/10/2007 01: 05

I don't know about the middle Zone, but in Vietam, some species of swimmers are known to live in underground reservoirs.
A special entomofauna lives in the Moscow metro. This summer there was a banned story: on the passage of the metro station. Theater I saw a very large cockroach, without thinking twice, I caught it, but soon realized that I did not have a matchbox or a cigarette pack to take it with me. I had to let him go, when suddenly a lady selling tickets for infirm concerts saw all this. tochas raised a terrible screech and scream :"What are you releasing here!?!?!" And I had no choice but to retreat at a brisk pace.
I am sure that if you climb through the tunnels you can find many interesting, including cave, vidov

One of the most expensive beetles (up to 3 thousand CU) is Anophthalmus hitleri, the ground beetle of Hitler, which lives in several caves in Slovenia.
There are also troglodytic endemic ground beetles in the Carpathians.

This post was edited by rpanin - 12.12.2007 17: 30

I don't think so, but you can't find any cave species. But the full range of synanthropes is easy. Cave entomofauna are formed over millions of years, and live only in natural (and not all) underground voids with a suitable and stable microclimate.

One of the most expensive beetles (up to 3 thousand CU) is Anophthalmus hitleri, Hitler's ground beetle, which lives in several caves on the territory of Bohemia.
There are also troglodytic endemic ground beetles in the Carpathians.

did you collect it yourself?

here are some of the beetles, but not in Russia:


Decu, V., Gruia, M., Keffer, S.L. & Sarbu, S.M. 1994.
A stygobiotic waterscorpion, Nepa anophthalma n.sp. (Hemiptera, Nepidae), from Movile Cave, Romania.
Annals of the Entomol. Soc. of America 87: 755-761.


MICHAEL TOBLER, INGO SCHLUPP, MARTIN PLATH (2007)

Predation of a cave fish (Poecilia mexicana, Poeciliidae) by a giant water-bug (Belostoma, Belostomatidae) in a Mexican sulphur cave

Ecological Entomology 32 (5), 492–495. doi:10.1111/j.1365-2311.2007.00892.x

1. Caves are often assumed to be predator-free environments for cave fishes. This has been proposed to be a potential benefit of colonising these otherwise harsh environments. In order to test this hypothesis, the predator–prey interaction of a belostomatid (predator) and a cave fish (prey) occurring in the Cueva del Azufre (Tabasco, Mexico) was investigated with two separate experiments.
2. In one experiment, individual Belostoma were given a chance to prey on a cave fish, the cave form of the Atlantic molly (Poecilia mexicana), to estimate feeding rates and size-specific prey preferences of the predator. In the other experiment, population density of Belostoma was estimated using a mark–recapture analysis in one of the cave chambers.
3. Belostomatids were found to heavily prey on cave mollies and to exhibit a prey preference for large fish. The mark–recapture analysis revealed a high population density of the heteropterans in the cave.
4. The absence of predators in caves is not a general habitat feature for cave fishes. None the less predation regimes differ strikingly between epigean and hypogean habitats. The prey preference of Belostoma indicates that cave-dwelling P. mexicana experience size-specific predation pressure comparable with surface populations, which may have implications for life-history evolution in this cave fish.

Cave entomofauna are formed over millions of years, and live only in natural (and not all) underground voids with a suitable and stable microclimate.

That's what I think. It is unlikely that underground voids on the ETR are new at all (the metro does not count Everything! First to the mermaids and then underground

I don't think so! The first metro line was built more than 70 years ago during this time a peculiar fauna could already begin to form

I totally agree with omar and Fornax13. There can be no cave fauna (in the exact sense) in the metro. From the point of view of evolution, 70 years is not even a moment or a ten-thousandth part of a moment, but nothing at all. Entomofauna in the subway, of course, is. But it is unlikely that it is very different from the usual synanthropic (except with a "basement bias"). And the anthropogenic impact (if not to say pressure) in the metro is simply enormous. And I don't think you should listen to (and even more so ask) diggers: their picturesque stories about giant mutant man-eating rats alone are worth a lot.

Well, let's say that only one person and his few followers talk about giant rats etc. But it's unlikely that diggers pay much attention to beetles at all. From the entomologist's point of view, it is not the metro that is interesting, but, for example, the Xiang system, especially the 2nd tier, which is still very poorly explored and where there may be reservoirs. I'm still going to go there with the band, but, uh, I can't get my feet up there...

This post was edited by Dracus - 12/23/2007 19: 44

Dmitrich, an abandoned field or an unpaved pond in 70 years-this is already a stable ecosystem, despite the speed of evolution. Succession rates will be higher. Why are underground ecosystems worse? In addition, for every little thing and a saucer of water-an ecosystem. When laying the metro, many natural karst cracks were probably discovered, including those with ready-made fauna.

About karst cracks with ready-made fauna in Moscow (sorry, near Moscow)... I doubt it very much. After all, this topic was originally about entomofauna, about insects. Undoubtedly, some microorganisms, algae, etc. are possible. But peculiar troglobiont insects in the Moscow metro?! No and no again! Although there are many things in the world, friend Horatio...

I'm actually a microbiologist. For bacteria, there are enough gaps between grains of sand and even between clay particles. There would be water. Algae still need light. So in the natural karst they are m.live only at the exits. I wonder, by the way, if there are any in the subway... There's plenty of water, there's moisture on the walls, there's light, too, but so much creosote or whatever they're soaked in...
This lyric refers to the fact that cave insects may have enough and 10 cm of cracks. And there must have been and still are many of them near Moscow. One question - did they take root in the subway?

There's plenty of water, moisture on the walls, light too, but so much creosote, or whatever it is soaked in...

That's right, creosote or whatever... It is unlikely that troglobionts, even if we assume that they lived in underground reservoirs on the site of present-day Moscow, would have been able to survive in the conditions of the metro. After all, troglobionts exist in an almost closed ecosystem, and, therefore, are extremely sensitive to any external influences, especially such powerful ones.

It is difficult to disagree about the extreme stenobionty of troglobionts. Only to my shame I don't know what the "Xiang system" is

Only to my shame, I don't know what the "Xiang system"is

Similar to

I think that speciation in underground cavities is still connected with their constancy. We also have a lot of cavities with water near Rostov, but no endemics seem to have been found here. Maybe because they are constantly collapsing? And the age of artificial underground structures (let it be a hundred, two hundred or more summer passages) is not enough for the formation of species. And then the cave fauna is formed in very, very specific conditions. In general, it is believed that if a cave opened and uncharacteristic elements (other animals, bacteria, air) began to enter it, then this cave will die.

I think that speciation in underground cavities is still connected with their constancy. We also have a lot of cavities with water near Rostov, but no endemics seem to have been found here. Maybe because they are constantly collapsing? And the age of artificial underground structures (let it be a hundred, two hundred or more summer passages) is not enough for the formation of species. And then the cave fauna is formed in very, very specific conditions. In general, it is believed that if a cave opened and uncharacteristic elements (other animals, bacteria, air) began to enter it, then this cave will die.

Did you collect anything in them at all?

I think that speciation in underground cavities is still connected with their constancy. We also have a lot of cavities with water near Rostov, but no endemics seem to have been found here. Maybe because they are constantly collapsing? And the age of artificial underground structures (let it be a hundred, two hundred or more summer passages) is not enough for the formation of species. And then the cave fauna is formed in very, very specific conditions. In general, it is believed that if a cave opened and uncharacteristic elements (other animals, bacteria, air) began to enter it, then this cave will die.

1. Why vido-? Drosophila races are formed in one fell swoop...
2. If the cave has opened... If it doesn't open, it will also die. Entropy-s... Karst formations, alas, are not very durable at all. And the karst biota lives on. And, by the way, there are no cave "dinosaurs" or almost none. Despite the stable economic conditions.
Still, one should not reject crack-to-crack migration, despite not very clear mechanisms. Although your animals are bigger than mine. Random colonization probably takes less time anyway than speciation.

This post was edited by grumbler - 12/28/2007 20: 44

One of the most expensive beetles (up to 3 thousand CU) is Anophthalmus hitleri, the ground beetle of Hitler, which lives in several caves in Slovenia.
There are also troglodytic endemic ground beetles in the Carpathians.

Anophthalmus hitleri http://www.zin.ru/ANIMALIA/Coleoptera/rus/zhukhitl.htm
This is the first time I've ever heard of this bug. It is a pity that I have gained such sad popularity. And on the other hand, 15 beetles and the housing issue is resolved. It will be necessary to find some new species, preferably endemic, and come up with a more successful name so that there is demand. And pre-catch everything, and then spend your whole life just doing what you love for yourself, there will still be someone to feed.

This post was edited by Trofim - 10.01.2008 13: 17

I think that speciation in underground cavities is still connected with their constancy. We also have a lot of cavities with water near Rostov, but no endemics seem to have been found here. Maybe because they are constantly collapsing? And the age of artificial underground structures (let it be a hundred, two hundred or more summer passages) is not enough for the formation of species. And then the cave fauna is formed in very, very specific conditions. In general, it is believed that if a cave opened and uncharacteristic elements (other animals, bacteria, air) began to enter it, then this cave will die.

I'm also wondering if there were any insects there?

1. Why vido-? Drosophila races are formed in one fell swoop...
2. If the cave has opened... If it doesn't open, it will also die. Entropy-s... Karst formations, alas, are not very durable at all. And the karst biota lives on. And, by the way, there are no cave "dinosaurs" or almost none. Despite the stable economic conditions.
Still, one should not reject crack-to-crack migration, despite not very clear mechanisms. Although your animals are bigger than mine. Random colonization probably takes less time anyway than speciation.

Well, here we are still talking about species, not races.
In terms of opened-not opened-it dies in any case, but as I understand it, when opened, it dies much faster.
I myself have never been particularly involved in speleofauna, but what I have read suggests that all underground animals live and form in cracks, and from there they also enter caves.

I'm also wondering if there were any insects there?

I don't know, unfortunately, I haven't seen such information anywhere.