Jaundice (Colias)

Yes, by distribution. Myrmidon goes to the southern taiga for broom. Chrysotemum is clearly a migrant in the Tula region, only in 1984/85 a local population was noted, apparently temporarily rooted - since then those places have been examined almost annually. Its main range is to the south, the south of the forest - steppe is steppe.

Yes, by distribution. Myrmidon goes to the southern taiga for broom. Chrysotemum is clearly a migrant in the Tula region, only in 1984/85 a local population was noted, apparently temporarily rooted - since then those places have been examined almost annually. Its main range is to the south, the south of the forest - steppe is steppe.

I had no idea that myrmidon and chrysothemum could be the same species - unlike alfakariensis, I know both butterflies very well (M. in the Tver region and H. in Siberia). But since they are still close, I am interested in their interaction. Between very similar species, there are two extreme behaviors - "promiscuity" and "avoidance". Perhaps the latter is characteristic of alfacariensis and hiale. I don't know about myrmidon/chrysothemum. Between erata and crocea, there seems to be "promiscuity" - so far it does not seem to interfere with the conservation of species.

Help please this is erate?

In Bulgaria, these butterflies are called crocea.

http://molbiol.ru/forums/index.php?act=Att...=post&id=132079

This post was edited by okoem - 02.02.2012 20: 00

bottom view

In the Tambov jaundice, you should look at the base of the hind wing - there should be a light oblong androconial spot. If it is very clearly oval, then crocea - but it is strange, even the edge of it is not visible. If more narrow elongated then myrmidon - and here, by the way, a similar border of the forewing without obvious yellow veins. There is no spot at all in erate, but it is something very orange for f. chrysodana. Is that some bright hybrid.

there should be a light oblong androconial spot. ...... There is no spot at all in erate, but it is something very orange for f. chrysodana.

After I had males in the offspring of one female crocea with varying degrees of development of this spot, from almost normally developed to complete absence, I stopped considering it a defining feature.

After I had males in the offspring of one female crocea with varying degrees of development of this spot, from almost normally developed to complete absence, I stopped considering it a defining feature.

Yes, of course, this is one species - just from the west regularly arrives orange nominative and hybridizes with the local yellow subspecies =)

No, this "nominative" also lives with us throughout the yugas along with Erate. From the west, of course, it does not fly - far and there is no need. A real" nominative " must have a spot - I don't see it only in f. chrysodona. But I have fees from there in the 70s and 80s - both types were especially massive in Volgograd in the late 70s. Either this hybridization has started recently, or it is still limited. See above.
By the way, the pigeons Agestis and Artaxerxes behave in a similar way here. Previously, they could be confidently distinguished, and agestis was distinguished by its locality and was perceived as a meadow-steppe species. Since the end of the 20th century. all borders have been erased, agestis is distributed like Icarus, and the species in the series are not distinguishable. Every year, the 2nd generation of Artaxerxes, which is not typical for him.

By the way, the pigeons Agestis and Artaxerxes behave in a similar way here. Previously, they could be confidently distinguished, and agestis was distinguished by its locality and was perceived as a meadow-steppe species. Since the end of the 20th century. all borders have been erased, agestis is distributed like Icarus, and the species in the series are not distinguishable. Every year, the 2nd generation of Artaxerxes, which is not typical for him.

There is a separate topic...
http://molbiol.ru/forums/index.php?showtopic=314870&st=0
http://molbiol.ru/forums/index.php?showtopic=314870&st=50

No, this "nominative" also lives with us throughout the yugas along with Erate. From the west, of course, it does not fly - far and there is no need. A real" nominative " must have a spot - I don't see it only in f. chrysodona. But I have fees from there in the 70s and 80s - both types were especially massive in Volgograd in the late 70s. Either this hybridization has started recently, or it is still limited. See above.
By the way, the pigeons Agestis and Artaxerxes behave in a similar way here. Previously, they could be confidently distinguished, and agestis was distinguished by its locality and was perceived as a meadow-steppe species. Since the end of the 20th century. all borders have been erased, agestis is distributed like Icarus, and the species in the series are not distinguishable. Every year, the 2nd generation of Artaxerxes, which is not typical for him.

As far back as I can remember, these pigeons really differ only genetically, genital differences are almost imperceptible. Is it absolutely proven that both species live (lived) in your country? A strange thing is the merger of species (according to Lukhtanov, the distance between artaxerxes and agestis is on the order of that between hyale/alfacariensis).

I read, I read... here are my "five kopecks" in the business of learning YELLOW:

meadow jaundice - we have quite common in open areas in 2-3 generations (ser. May-beginningOctober), local butterflies are actively blocked by southern migrants. The species is especially numerous during the appearance of sweet clover (after 2-3 years). Forage plants are different.

alfakariensis-this species was determined to us in our training camps by the SCC (blessed memory to him - we were introduced by Viktor Velikoivanenko). It is not celebrated annually and only in late summer-August/september. More often, again, during the mass manifestation of sweet clover.

chrysotemum-known for a series of butterflies from the steppes near the village of Tamala, collections of Yuri Starikov (1960-70) Actively looking for them myself - but alas, so far to no avail!? Migrants or temporary residents? It seems that in Ulyanovsk Vadim Zolotukhin says that the ugu region (steppe-Cretaceous) has quite stable populations...

erate - I do not understand what kind of "muddy" view, there are captures of males in June, the female last year caught in the beginning. July, and so appear in August-September. To say that it is rare or common - I don't know how to run into it...

crocea-con.August-September-beginningOctober's. Already several times my bratelnik Monakhov Evgeny observed mass outbreaks (just came out-fresh local!!) crocea and erate populations at the end of September in open biotopes in two different areas!!? According to the habitus in these collections, all possible transitions in color and coloration between these two taxa!?? Why does crocea only appear at the end of August???

myrmidon-ser. May - early September. not uncommon, monophage on broom (not found on gorse). According to large specimens of males living in pine forests, they can be attributed to the yermak form; the second-third generation (August-September) has amazing (beautiful!) transitions in the coloration of females from light yellow-greenish to dark yellow-orange (obviously some thermal morphs). Steppe butterflies are smaller in size and
number.

Photos of Sergey Shibaev in 2001, still on a film camera, so guess where who is:

This post was edited by Penzyak - 03.02.2012 14: 03

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I read, I read... here are my "five kopecks" in the business of learning YELLOW:

meadow jaundice - we have quite common in open areas in 2-3 generations (ser. May-beginningOctober), local butterflies are actively blocked by southern migrants. The species is especially numerous during the appearance of sweet clover (after 2-3 years). Forage plants are different.

alfakariensis-this species was determined to us in our training camps by the SCC (blessed memory to him - we were introduced by Viktor Velikoivanenko). It is not celebrated annually and only in late summer-August/september. More often, again, during the mass manifestation of sweet clover.

chrysotemum-known for a series of butterflies from the steppes near the village of Tamala, collections of Yuri Starikov (1960-70) Actively looking for them myself - but alas, so far to no avail!? Migrants or temporary residents? It seems that in Ulyanovsk Vadim Zolotukhin says that the ugu region (steppe-Cretaceous) has quite stable populations...

erate - I do not understand what kind of "muddy" view, there are captures of males in June, the female last year caught in the beginning. July, and so appear in August-September. To say that it is rare or common - I don't know how to run into it...

crocea-con.August-September-beginningOctober's. Already several times my bratelnik Monakhov Evgeny observed mass outbreaks (just came out-fresh local!!) crocea and erate populations at the end of September in open biotopes in two different areas!!? According to the habitus in these collections, all possible transitions in color and coloration between these two taxa!?? Why does crocea only appear at the end of August???

myrmidon-ser. May - early September. not uncommon, monophage on broom (not found on gorse). According to large specimens of males living in pine forests, they can be attributed to the yermak form; the second-third generation (August-September) has amazing (beautiful!) transitions in the coloration of females from light yellow-greenish to dark yellow-orange (obviously some thermal morphs). Steppe butterflies are smaller in size and
number.

Photos of Sergey Shibaev in 2001, still on a film camera, so guess where who is:

??
6 - hyale
8 - alfacariensis
19 - hyale
21 - myrmidone

... all photos are not included, here's more to add:

And I'm not saying that alfakariensis develops on sweet clover-and if you consider that in the Penza region, multi-colored elm literally grows in places in the SEA (after all, none of the animals really eats it-s, yat-s) in every meadow gully or on the settled slopes... the rarity of alfacariensis is something else I think...

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... all photos are not included, here I add more:

And I'm not saying that alfakariensis develops on sweet clover-and if you consider that in the Penza region, multi-colored elm literally grows in places in the SEA (after all, none of the animals really eats it-s, yat-s) in every meadow gully or on the settled slopes... the rarity of alfacariensis is something else I think...

Then why does it appear in in connection with sweet clover??

22 - myrmidone
23 - myrmidone
26 - hyale

... I wanted to recode the photos , but it didn't work out. I didn't bother with my underwear. Here is the last one - crocea or hybrid?

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I also wrote that at the peak of the number/mass growth of sweet clover (some kind of cyclicity can be traced in this species), the number of jaundice in the region GENERALLY increases literally several times from the usual one... Whether this is true in other places I do not know...

... I wanted to recode the photos , but it didn't work out. I didn't bother with my underwear. Here is the last one - crocea or hybrid?

and what is your color variability there? according to the drawing (including the eye color on the wkr.) and the shape of the wings 100% crocea," erate " only yellow

I also wrote that at the peak of the number/mass growth of sweet clover (some kind of cyclicity can be traced in this species), the number of jaundice in the region GENERALLY increases literally several times from the usual one... Whether this is true in other places I do not know...

But what does the number of alphakariensis have to do with it? And myrmidons?

This post was edited by sergenicko - 03.02.2012 15: 17

The trick is that the number/or occurrence of hyala, alfacariensis, crocea, erata-Increases many times from normal years!!? Well, how else to say... whether these species feed on sweet clover - I don't know, it grows tall, bushy and huge areas - then in winter partridges hide in it, in spring its dry thickets on the slopes or fields burn like forests!

The trick is that the number/or occurrence of hyala, alfacariensis, crocea, erata-Increases many times from normal years!!? Well, how else to say... whether these species feed on sweet clover - I don't know, it grows tall, bushy and huge areas - then in winter partridges hide in it, in spring its dry thickets on the slopes or fields burn like forests!

With sweet clover it is clear, alfakariensis suddenly changes the vaccination, but with myrmidone it is a dead end. Classic monophage, eats nothing but broom. Whatever I've done to tempt hungry caterpillars , they'll die, but give me some broom.

This post was edited by sergenicko - 03.02.2012 15: 20

I read, I read... here are my "five kopecks" in the business of learning YELLOW:

Photos of Sergey Shibaev in 2001, still on a film camera, so guess where who is:

the golden female is just great!

I didn't fully understand them, like everything else, as far as it turns out, but...

hiale - everywhere, from May to ser. October - meadows, pastures, in the city, and other urbanized places-upper corner of ostry wing lane

alfakariensis-caught once, in the south of the region, on the chalk in mid-May (unfortunately, I have never been there again, but there is another series from there that still needs to be dealt with)- this is how the phenotype / habit catches the eye-round wings, the color is more yellow...perhaps the second generation is paler, but this needs to be checked. But I didn't see Hiale there.

chrysotemum-I didn't catch it myself. there are old proven fees, and visually very different from myrmidon yellow veins

myrmidon-infrequently, warhead from July through pine forests on sand with broom. we need to look for the first generation.

erate / crocea - "I am tormented by vague doubts".... I can't say anything about this(this) taxon. we need more material.

... I wanted to recode the photos , but it didn't work out. I didn't bother with my underwear. Here is the last one - crocea or hybrid?

very similar to mine...mine is closer to the north of Saratovskaya, but not far from your western corner

This post was edited by AGG-03.02.2012 15: 40

the golden female is just great!

I didn't fully understand them, like everything else, as far as it turns out, but...

hiale - everywhere, from May to ser. October - meadows, pastures, in the city, and other urbanized places-upper corner of ostry wing lane

alfakariensis-caught once, in the south of the region, on the chalk in mid-May (unfortunately, I have never been there again, but there is another series from there that still needs to be dealt with)- this is how the phenotype / habit catches the eye-round wings, the color is more yellow...perhaps the second generation is paler, but this needs to be checked. But I didn't see Hiale there.

chrysotemum-I didn't catch it myself. there are old proven fees, and visually very different from myrmidon yellow veins

myrmidon-infrequently, warhead from July through pine forests on sand with broom. we need to look for the first generation.

erate / crocea - "I am tormented by vague doubts".... I can't say anything about this(this) taxon. we need more material.

In the series that I have seen, a stable distinguishing feature between chiala and alfakariensis seems to be a border almost to the bottom on the zkr. in chiale and reduced in alfakariensis.

I'll definitely check it out. how stable is such a feature as a wing pattern in such a polymorphic group?
if males don't "work", then who made the females ' genitals? is there really no difference, maybe a post-vaginal plate, bursa or something?

This post was edited by AGG-03.02.2012 16: 02

I'll definitely check it out. how stable is such a feature as a wing pattern in such a polymorphic group?
if males don't "work", then who made the females ' genitals? is there really no difference, maybe a post-vaginal plate, bursa or something?

I repeat - in the series that I have seen. In male alphacariensis, the border barely reaches the middle of the outer edge. In females, it can also be full, but, unlike chyale, "liquid". In female hyale, the border seems to always be almost to the anal angle and "fat". The shape of the RCC. This is a good sign, but it is statistical, and the color is even more so (based on faded copies). figs that you will understand). But if the shape of the RCC. and the border on the RCC. are in harmony - the definition, in my opinion, is 100%. Opinions differ about genitals. In theory, they can contrast in places where they live together, provided that the form is functional (!).

This post was edited by sergenicko - 03.02.2012 16: 19

and what is your color variability there? according to the drawing (including the color of the eye on the wkr.) and the shape of the wings 100% crocea, "erate" only yellow

- the fact of the matter is that we have this yellow - I would even say-orange color in "crocea" prevails!?? I remember Tolman's book shows a drawing of exactly the same hybrid that is found in our area...
Who has the book - scan it for general viewing.

In the series that I have seen, a stable distinguishing feature between chiala and alfakariensis seems to be a border almost to the bottom on the zkr. in chiale and reduced in alfakariensis.

- uh, no, I have to say that if this were the case, then we would have such an alfakariensis in the fall (in the sweet clover years)...

Pictures:

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Here's an interesting one, this article

"Evolutionary biogeography and taxonomy of Pierid butterfly taxa Colias crocea and C. erate (Lepidoptera, Pieridae)."
Chichvarkhin A., Wahlberg N., Nylin S.

does it exist in nature? I can't find any output data...

As often happens, I answer it myself.

According to one of the "authors", this article was never written. (I got information about it from the genebank, where some sequences are associated with it...)

and what is your color variability there? according to the drawing (including the color of the eye on the wkr.) and the shape of the wings 100% crocea, "erate" only yellow

- the fact of the matter is that we have this yellow - I would even say-orange color in "crocea" prevails!?? I remember that Tolman's book shows a drawing of exactly the same hybrid that is found in our area...

Is it a hybrid? When hybridizing, other signs of E/C would probably interfere, but here only color.

Who has the book - scan it for general viewing.
 
In the series that I have seen, a stable distinguishing feature between chiala and alfakariensis seems to be a border almost to the bottom on the zkr. in chiale and reduced in alfakariensis.

- uh, no, I have to say that if this were the case, then we would have such an alfakariensis in the fall (in the sweet clover years)...

What makes you think you don't have it? Just by color? I got into Higgins on purpose. Hyale has "submarginal markings not infrenquent and black marginal marking constant"; alfacariensis has "submarginal markings absent, black marginal marginal markings small if present". That is, it coincides with what I have seen (and I have not read Higgins about this before).

As long as erate and crocea are not" officially " synonymized , it is wrong to speak of them as one species.

As long as erate and crocea are not" officially " synonymized , it is wrong to speak of them as one species.

Yes, no one synonymizes them. Yellow crocea with a typical crocea pattern - why are these hybrids, and not intraspecific variability? As well as the orange erate with their pattern. Both yellow male crocea and orange erate are found far from their common habitat.

1-4, 08-Tambov city area, mesophytic clearing

2-8, 08 - Rzhaksinsky district (Southwestern region), Lugovaya balka

3-21, 07 tambov city

4-25, 09 tambov city (smaller by 1 cm in scope, at least)

5-22, 08 floodplain glade in the city district

6-30, 07 muchkap (the extreme south of the region is closer to Saratov, the station, as well as further I can not bring, tc fees are not mine)

7-14, 05 okr muchkapa, sedimented slope of balki with chalk outcrops

8-29, 07 muchkap

9-28, 07 muchkap

10-02, 08 muchkap

for me, so 7-double alfakariensis, 1-4 hiale, although 4 strange, the rest-?

This post was edited by AGG-03.02.2012 17: 26

Over the past fifteen years, 130 orange males from the crocea-erate group have been collected. Everything that could be caught was caught, the heels might have flown away.
The following factors were taken into account: saturation of the main color of the upper wings, the nature and size of the marginal border, darkening of the main color of the upper rear wing, the presence of an androconial spot, and the shape of the valva.
16 males fell under the definition of crocea and 9 had intermediate types both in appearance and in the shape of the valva.
In some populations, 40 to 100 observations per season were made per season.

The chrysodona form.
Despite the fact that this form has always been considered a hybrid, I do not consider it such, but I consider it only a color variation of erate. These are just the remaining 105 males. If not for the light orange color of the upper wings, this is a typical erate by all indications. As a rule, this form appears by the end of June and until October. Extremely rare (mild winter and warm spring) it appears in May. It occurs more frequently in southern populations than in northern ones. There are many transition shapes: light-light orange; orange brushstrokes on a yellow background. That is, there is a connection with the temperature.

Crocea.
1 male – June, 1 male-early July, everything else-late July-September. (Very similar to chrysodona).
16 males in 15 years, the numbers speak for themselves, and no hint of females. I can't seem to assume that I'm missing them.
Migration? I would really like to find this mysterious population.

"Hybrid".
For the Volgograd region, at the moment, it is impossible to talk about hybridization. Crocea is missing and it is not clear why hybrids do not appear at the end of April-May, along with erate.

The conclusions suggest themselves.

Male crocea are probably migrants, as they are all over Northern Europe. I have observed crocea and erate in Bulgaria , where they are very different in appearance and inwardly. In the mountains of Erate I did not see, only crocea (up to the highlands), on the plain they fly together.

1-4, 08-Tambov city area, mesophytic clearing

2-8, 08 - Rzhaksinsky district (Southwestern region), Lugovaya balka

3-21, 07 tambov city

4-25, 09 tambov city (smaller by 1 cm in scope, at least)

5-22, 08 floodplain glade in the city district

6-30, 07 muchkap (the extreme south of the region is closer to Saratov, the station, as well as further I can not bring, tc fees are not mine)

7-14, 05 okr muchkapa, sedimented slope of balki with chalk outcrops

8-29, 07 muchkap

9-28, 07 muchkap

10-02, 08 muchkap

for me, so 7-terry alfakariensis, 1-4 erate, although 4 strange, the rest-?

I didn't recognize erate, except for 29.07-erate, and 30.07-mymidone (?).
In my opinion, the rest (I put them by numbers, they don't intersect):
4.08, 8.08, 21.07, 25.09-hyale
14.05, 28.07, 02.08-alfacariensis
In erate as in crocea and myrmidone-the border on the rcc. and wcr. is usually wide, on the rcc. to the anal angle and still bends to the base; in hiale and alfacariensis on the rcc. incomplete-barely reaches the anal angle, and then only in the narrow part

This post was edited by sergenicko - 04.02.2012 00: 13

..I am "literally" gnawed by vague "suspicions" that in the Volga region crocea and karate:
1. the same variable taxon...
2. either one of them hybridizes with someone ...
3. do their descendants spend the winter here?
4. or what we rarely and ACCIDENTALLY see in June - migrants?
5. Ugh, I checked (not the beginning of July! see early reports) - and exactly on June 11. steppe slope near the village of Bikmurzino-literally in the evening I catch a female "erate" and Nadia had such a thing happen. I packed it on the edge of a cliff and it s ... flew off the net under the cliff (I don't finish them in "death" - a habit - I don't like to soak crackers...) on top of vetla's head... I tried to knock it down for half an hour... so they went fishing in the evening heat. I still wonder what kind of female it was...

...I am "literally" gnawing vague "suspicions" that in the Volga region crocea and karate:
1. the same variable taxon...
2. either one of them hybridizes with someone ...
3. do their descendants spend the winter here?
4. or what we rarely and ACCIDENTALLY see in June - migrants?
5. Ugh, I checked (not the beginning of July! see early reports) - and exactly on June 11. steppe slope near the village of Bikmurzino-literally in the evening I catch a female "erate" and Nadia had such a thing happen. I packed it on the edge of a cliff and it s ... flew off the net under the cliff (I don't finish them in "death" - a habit - I don't like to soak crackers...) on top of vetla's head... I tried to knock it down for half an hour... so they went fishing in the evening heat. I still wonder what kind of female it was...

How do you distinguish between crocea and erate females?

deeply pordonite, the inventory came out, of course, hiale, and not Erate. corrected

Eight pages of the topic, four hundred posts, gorgeous photos of participants, excellent photos of okoem by alfakariensis and a bitter impression.
Either they don't read it, ignore it, or don't trust it.
But TOLMAN did. There is no prophet.

- "All rivers flow" and "you can't enter the same river twice"... as they say " deja vu "(such is life).

Eight pages of the topic, four hundred posts, gorgeous photos of participants, excellent photos of okoem by alfakariensis and a bitter impression.
Either they don't read it, ignore it, or don't trust it.
But TOLMAN did. There is no prophet.

- "All rivers flow" and "you can't enter the same river twice"... as they say " deja vu "(such is life).

And what do okoem's photos contradict? Only alfacariensis is found in Crimea. You need to distinguish them where they intersect with hyale. There, the color (for example, in series), the shape of the wing (in series) and the border device on the zkr work quite well. (in my opinion, the most stable one distinguishes. flag). Females of alfakariensis have a border up to the corner, but then it is divided into separate spots. The rest of the known features are bast in a row, and they also work together in series from the same location.

This post was edited by sergenicko - 03.02.2012 17: 57

How do you distinguish between crocea and erate females?

"I spent the rest of the evening wondering why I thought it was a female erate.? (crocea it could not be well - I live for a long time and have seen a lot). And when caught and predavil, looked and as an electric shock hit - this is erate-judging by the solid dark side border; female: a. very large size and b.whitish-cream color (jaundiced females).

That's it, go home (see you Monday!) the pulpit has been empty for two hours... and outside the window, it's freezing and a howl is yelling in the park...

Wrote-wrote, it seems, in Russian... and all in vain.
No, not migrants...
Most likely, it is just a cleavage of crocea traits in the population, and in local populations there has recently been a shift towards erate, but in the Crimea - towards crocea.
But this is a personal matter for each specific population…

Wow. But my observations "from one clearing" (more precisely, from a series of "one clearings") in Bulgaria quite coincide with the Crimean Milovanova (2002), according to which "sympatric populations of C. crocea and C. erate are highly heteromorphic". And by what signs do you distinguish females?

This post was edited by sergenicko - 03.02.2012 19: 19