Jaundice (Colias)

This is not just about the Internet. This division into subgenera is also found in printed works (i.e., not by the site's authors www.pieris.we invented it ). I do not know what the reasons for this division are. It looks like the legs are growing from the following post:

Berger, L. (1986): Systйmatique du genre Colias F. Lepidoptera- Pieridae. - Lambillionea 86(7/8, suppl.), pp. [1-68, pls. 3-4, 24 figs.]

I haven't read it.

And here's another interesting publication Googled:

Molecular Phylogeny for Colias Butterflies and Their Relatives
Authors: POLLOCK, DAVID D.; WATT, WARD B.; RASHBROOK, VANESSA K.; IYENGAR, ERIKA V.
Source: Annals of the Entomological Society of America, Volume 91, Number 5, September 1998 , pp. 524-531(8)
Publisher: Entomological Society of America

From the annotation to http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/esa/...000005/art00004

"Our results ... do not support the recently proposed splitting of Eurasian C. erate from subgenus C. (Eriocolias) into the separate subgenus C. (Neocolias)."

If anyone has the full texts of these works , I would be happy to see them.

PS: As far as I understood, erate and crocea are molecularly identical.

This post was edited by Kharkovbut-06.11.2010 01: 24

Dear Kharkovbut. Thank you so much for the referral. UW-e Okoem and guk, thank you too for your attention

Hi everyone,
I am a Collector/breader from Holland.
I hope you can read English (or use a online translator). I joined this forum because it is very informative for me. Boris, your info about the DNA (RNA) on Colias Erate and Colias Croceus was very conclusive ! thank you friend ! This is the best Forum !

But i wonder....What if you compare RNA of Colias Croceus and Myrmidone
and what if you compare RNA of Colias Hyale and Alphacariencis ?
Especially Hyale and Alphacariencis...they look visually the same to me, and with so much diversity in the spcies.... Are they not 1 specie either?

hope to get a reply on this
Greetz from Holland (Gollandia)

But i wonder....What if you compare RNA of Colias Croceus and Myrmidone
and what if you compare RNA of Colias Hyale and Alphacariencis ?

Both pairs are reportedly separable by DNA barcoding. You may look, eg., at this paper:

Complete DNA barcode reference library for a country’s butterfly fauna reveals high performance for temperate Europe
Vlad Dinca˘ 1,2, Evgeny V. Zakharov3, Paul D. N. Hebert3
and Roger Vila1,4,*
Proc. R. Soc. B

Supplements with the information you need are available here:

http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org/con...0.1089.DC1.html

Dagestani avrorins and swallowtails

Slightly larger

Kharkovbut and Bora,
Ochen spasibo !! thats a very conclusive answer ! I am learning a lot of you people
Here a picture of the Colias species i caught in Oktober in Odessa.
Thanks again friends
Henny

Here a picture of the Colias species i caught in Oktober in Odessa.

Henny, no pictures so far. To upload a picture you need to register on this forum. Guests cannot make any uploads.

I've been looking for alfacariensis for a very long time. The situation was very much confused by the reference in the literature to the fact that alfacariensis flies together with hyale,
...
Now the criteria, although it's all written above, and it's all written in any book.
1. the color of the wings.
2. the shape of the wings.
3. shape and size of the edge border.
4. discal spot color and size.
5. the nature of basal darkening.
6. garpa shape.
That's it, easy and simple.

Compare

I invite everyone to practice identifying yellow spots and try their hand at the attached photos. The correct answer is found in the password-protected archive below.


 otvet.rar

size: 196 bytes
number of downloads: 375






The password will be published after everyone has expressed their opinion.
So, what versions are available?

Females




Males

I invite everyone to practice identifying yellow spots and try their hand at the attached photos. The correct answer is found in the password-protected archive below.


 otvet.rar

size: 196 bytes
number of downloads: 375






The password will be published after everyone has expressed their opinion.
So, what versions are available?

I would categorize only 3 and 5.

I will assume that 2, 4, 7, 13, 14 - this is S. hyale. The reverse side would help with the definition.

This post was edited by Kallima - 12/21/2010 17: 45

I won't even try the females.
But 5 and 6 (high probability) – alfacariensis.
19, 20, 23, 24 - alfacariensis.

Vladimir, is this Crimean material? If it's Crimean, then the disappearance of the Colias hyale page on your site clarifies a lot

The material is Crimean mixed with Kharkiv. So alas, it doesn't clarify.

Oh, the Guess the Compass ride is in action! How was it... "I'll guess this colias with three signs" ...

I think that the numbers 5, 16, 19, 24 are alfacariensis. Creepy New Year's Eve puzzle.
And the females are the same, the males don't care - the boys are from Alfakar

This post was edited by Yakovlev - 22.12.2010 07: 00

You, Volodya, don't judge me harshly. We already have the 4th day-34-36C. The brain freezes, makes it difficult to think about the triad of signs... Most of all, I want 150 grams of gorilla Nemirov (the one with honey and pepper), a hot bath and a blanket. And you're here with the problems. Fanatic

You, Volodya, don't judge me harshly.

I will not judge, of course. I'll post my password and everyone will see the number of accurate hits for themselves.
The task is not simple and one hundred percent accuracy in determining all 24 instances, in my opinion, is not expected. Although... who knows. There is no hurry, we will wait, I hope there are still those who want to speak out.

I'll try it too.
C. hyale: 1, 4, 5, 8, 12, 13, 14, 15, 22
The rest is alfacariensis
Okoem, but how are you guaranteed to distinguish them yourself ?
They're not all inferred, I suppose.

5, 9, 16, 24 - alfacariensis

I will add my post-18, perhaps, also hiale.
So - 2,4,7,13,14,18 hiale, the rest are alfacariensis.

Okoem, how are you guaranteed to distinguish them yourself ?

More on that later.

My hands are itchy, but I don't have enough competence. Well, at least I'll correct the name: alfakarien z is, imho.

genitals to the studio.

21,16,10,6-alfa
Or I'll take a chance that it's all hyals (if this is a joke) ^___^

genitals to the studio.

Well, why did it happen, we are engaged in entomology here, and not human anatomy trollface. jpg

not a grateful thing you are doing here

all alfacariensis

Find them from the pictures... Intraspecific variability is very, very high. Well, for sure, part of the imago is brood cells

Well, let's put it this way: 15 and 24-alfakariensis, 14, 17-20-hiale, the rest-equally one or the other.

Here, maybe for comparison, a small series of hyale-alfacariensis. Caught in one place: Zaporozhye region, Melitopol district, gully with chalk outcrops.25.07.2010.
Looked at I. G. Ivy-says most likely - hyale?, but there are signs of alfacariensis. I didn't cook my genitals.

Pictures:

Colias_sp..jpg — (244.42к)

For several years I have been observing a population of C. alfacariensis in the vicinity of Oryol, log.Adc. They fly only on the southern slopes with limestone outcrops, this is a meadow steppe with feather grass, elm . We don't have many such places. They do not fly out of the dry slopes, and the time of summer does not coincide with C. hyale.
Very similar to the numbers of 4,5,6,7 butterflies from Zaporozhye, although the females are 90% yellow. And C. hyale is found everywhere in the area and has a "classic" appearance-smaller, more black, etc. Maybe south of C. hyale brighter and larger, but how to distinguish them?

This post was edited by Kallima - 12/24/2010 14: 36

this is a meadow steppe with....., elm. They don't fly out of dry slopes,

Great observations!
I also noticed that alfacariensis does not fly far from the elm tree. Where there is no vyazel, there it is not. Picture from nature: Steppe on the plateau of the Uzun-Syrt ridge, C. croceus flying everywhere, elm is not visible. I'm walking and suddenly I see a few C. alfacariensis-I barely have time to think about the elm tree - and there it is, a big bush on the side of the road.

The knacker!!!!!!!

It's probably going to be a New Year's gift, so we'll have to be patient a little longer...

This post was edited by Kharkovbut - 24.12.2010 20: 51

Oyyyy, no way, I looked in.
I won't even guess. I'll wait for the official solution

Colias chrysotheme (Esper, [1777])
Crimea, Simferopol neighborhood, August 23, 1984, leg. K. A. Efetov.

This will probably be a gift for the New Year

Well, if there are no more people willing to speak out....

Okoem, how are you guaranteed to distinguish them yourself ?
They're not all inferred, I suppose.

Almost all butterflies are brood butterflies. Only two were caught. One is the female from which the caterpillars were obtained. The second is a male croceus / erate (valvae do not have harps). The presented series includes three types!
Password


 pass.txt

size: 23 bytes
number of downloads: 523

Maybe C. hyale is brighter and larger to the south, but how can you tell them apart?

According to my observations, there are the following signs:
The first, and most significant, is the shape of the outer edge of the front wing. In alfakariensis, the edge is convex, and the hyala is "cut off" under a straight line.
The second feature is the ratio of the size of the black border on the front and rear wings. In alfacariensis, the border on the forewings is much more developed than on the hind wings. In hyala, the border on the fore and hind wings is developed with less disproportion. Thus, in light specimens of alfacariensis, the forewing has a small amount of black, while the hind wing has no or almost no black. In dark specimens of alfacariensis, the forewing has a lot of black, the rear wing also has a pronounced border, but, as a rule, it is still not very wide.
The third sign, which follows from the second, is that in alfakariensis, the forewing border has less yellow/white illumination. The hind wing border is narrow and runs only along the edge. In the hyala on the front wing, the enlightenment is better expressed. On the rear wing, the border is, let's say, "double".


If we say the very essence and briefly-when the outer edge of the front wing is "straight" - with a high degree of probability this is a hyala. If there is no border on the hind wings , it is most likely alfacariensis.

The listed features, although they do not give a 100% guarantee of determination, however, make it possible to at least roughly represent where what kind of species is located. And if you need an accurate definition, this is quite easy to do by getting eggs and growing caterpillars.

In general, that seems to be all I can say at the moment. As the material accumulates, I hope it will become clear how much you can trust the above attributes.
It would be very interesting if Kallima posted photos of eagle butterflies here for comparison.

Here, maybe for comparison, a small series of hyale-alfacariensis.

I would say that 2, 4, 8 is most likely alfakariensis. And the rest are typical alfacariensis.

Vladimir, thank you for the message.

I wonder how the attribute "number of teeth at the top of the aedeagus" works to distinguish these species. I haven't been able to get my hands on it yet - in parallel with Pyrgus, I've been working on a bit of Lycaeides, which also has some very interesting results...

I have a fairly good sample from near Cherkasy. In the same place, butterflies have the characteristics of one and the other species - the appearance, as it seems to me, depends on the generation, weather conditions of the year. I'll take care of it.

I would like to take this opportunity to congratulate Colias fans on the New Year.

I wonder how the attribute "number of teeth at the top of the aedeagus" works to distinguish these species.

Oh, yes, I forgot.
In the males bred in spring, alfakariensis looked at the teeth... And there are six or seven of them... I don't remember any more. In general , this flag doesn't work.

okoem!
Thank you very much!
We need to write an article!

You are welcome!
The article is already in print.

Here you can also read a little on this topic - if suddenly someone did not see it...

http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org/con...101089supp3.pdf