The Red Book and insects

Something on the nectar production of lupine (although a different species, but within the genus it is usually similar):
Some authors are inclined to attribute lupine to pollen-bearing plants, but our observations allow us to draw other conclusions, namely, lupine flowers secrete nectar and, therefore, lupine can be attributed not only to pollen - bearing plants, but also to nectar-bearing plants. The determination of nectar productivity was carried out using the above method on lupine flowers of the Borovlyansky variety. The average nectar production of 1 flower of this variety was 0.80 mg of sugar. In terms of 1 ha (for this purpose, we calculated the total number of flowers in 9 varieties per 1 m2), the nectar productivity of yellow lupine was 26 kg.
According to its nectar-producing qualities, lupine can be classified as a type of fruit stand. Such a reserve for improving the feed balance should be taken into account in beekeeping.
From a web resource http://www.bestbees.ru/?q=node/1472.
It remains to be seen if Apollo feeds on it. I wrote to Korzunovich. Does anyone else have any information?

Received a response from Korzunovich. He hadn't seen any Apollo feeding on lupin. Photos of butterflies of different species feeding on it are found on the Internet, but not enough. They don't seem to like lupine. And I was wrong about its appeal to butterflies. I did not observe this plant in our region in a wild form, I "fell for" the photos I had with Vladimir apollons. But they must have just spent the night on it. The main Apollo nectaros there, according to Korzunovich and the additional photo received from him (attached) - korostavnik. It feeds on apollo and in the Tambov region. At the same time, the main nectar resource for them there, according to my observations, is red clover. The" islands " of clover with dozens of apollos sitting on them all day are an unforgettable experience. What's up now? Possibly new forest plantations...

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On lupine, I have never seen feeding apollons in the Penza region, as well as "sleeping" ones... Although lupine grows a lot in cemeteries near villages. But lupine is rare in the pine forest area...
And on korostavnik and other indigenous "wild" plants, apollo is not rare in its biotope (see my article and photo):
Polumordvinov O. A., Shibaev S. V. 2006. Biology and ecology of the Apollo sailboat Parnassius apollo Linnaeus, 1758 (Lepidoptera: Papilionidae) in the Penza region // Izvestiya pgpu: Scientific and educational issues. Sector of Young Scientists No. 2 (4 – - Penza: PSPU, pp. 20-25.

But feeding on the North American introduced two-year-old donkey-Oenothera biennis L. I myself observed feeding and additives. In a disturbed biotope. My indication of the second forage plant of Apollo caterpillars in the Middle Zone-caustic cleaning (written from the words that we saw apollo caterpillars among caustic cleaning and without proper testing in laboratory conditions) is now considered unlikely. Has anyone ever found Apollo caterpillars feeding on the caustic scum??

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Wild Yuri
Permanent member
Lipetsk, summer-Far East

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Above, I did not write about the age of the swamps, but of the Aquilonaris populations. Not the fact that they exist on them for the same 7000 years. The microclimate of the stations could have changed dramatically since then. And the "macroclimate" was different. That is, from a scientific point of view, we can talk about the habitation of aquilonaris in these swamps only during the period of their observation there (the last 40-50, well, 100 years), and the rest is just speculation.
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I also wrote in Russian - at least 2 of these swamps were pollen analyzed. In addition, in the circles of those who do this (first of all, botanists, hydrologists, archaeologists, and entomologists are already the tenth case), it is well known that the last time the taiga was specifically in the Tula region.it was then, about 7,000 years ago. Then she was never here again! Only extrazonal isolates remained. They could grow up to 100 hectares during cold snaps, and they will shrink in the middle of broad - leaved forests, forest steppes, and steppes during warming periods. Under starvation conditions, they could expand to 100 hectares, under warming conditions - shrink to 1 hectare, and many disappeared altogether, overgrown with forest and grass, some were already destroyed by people. And by air, a whole multi-species community of plants and insects (also swamp and taiga) can not get here in any way, if the biome does not move again! Some types of plants with flying seeds-yes, they spread, some one or two insects-have negligible chances of "accurately hitting" (for example, the wings of a maple tree have drifted - it has grown-in 10 years some maple butterfly has drifted to this place, and it needs to be a female, lay eggs and This is a complex science - probability theory), but these are only individual adventitious elements, not communities.

Due to the size of the message, I give it in a separate file.

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th something like that in the century before last, and why would pedeefki not put up.

- so this is cut out of a huge PDF file, a year or so - then not everyone had computers!! especially in the provinces...

Well, then in 2004 I managed to buy an old Taiwanese laptop for a lot of money - otherwise I would never have had time to write 50 essays for our KK. Now I look at it and wonder - a typewriter can be said to have scanty options and memory... how it worked is unclear. AND NOTE THAT I BOUGHT IT WITH MY OWN MONEY - ACCORDING to THE CC PROJECT, I was given a total of 1/4 of its amount... So if someone thinks that you can cash in on KK... Then it's better not to do it at all!!!
Yes, and who now curates species and writes essays on lepidoptera (other orders of insects) for the new edition of the Red Book of Russia ???
I haven't seen any discussion of this project anywhere-MIRACLES!!?????????????????? Again, for the European part of the Russian Federation, butterflies will be counted on one hand. Ow-ow-ow-ow-ow-ow-ow-ow? Probably the authors don't read this page - they were afraid of the subtitle. The moderator can remove it finally, how much can you ask for it!!?

This post was edited by Penzyak - 04.10.2012 10: 52

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otherwise, not in my life I would not have had time to write 50 essays for our KK. ... AND NOTE THAT I BOUGHT IT WITH MY OWN MONEY - ACCORDING to THE CC PROJECT, I was given a total of 1/4 of its amount...

200 essays and the laptop paid off
Sorry, I couldn't resist.

.. it's funny, I remember then my superiors constantly told me-reduce the number of species! Too much! On arguments that and insects in the fauna of the studied area is much more than all other vertebrates, followed by a sullen silence....
It's like in that old bearded (literally!) a Soviet joke, remember:

A commission from RANO arrived at the school... to check the students ' knowledge, the headmaster took them to the history room for a lesson. The lesson goes perfectly, the children shine with knowledge about the subject... the inspector decided to get to the bottom of it...
- children and what kind of people are depicted in the portraits weighing in class!??
"It's Lenin!
"It's Brezhnev!
- And this ...(weighs a portrait of Karl Marx) is our janitor... Uncle Vasya!!!
....deathly silence....
On the same day after the commission leaves, the director calls the janitor to the office.
- How many times can I ask you, Vasily Kuzmich, TO SHAVE YOUR BEARD!!!
- Well, I'll shave off my beard, but where to put it smarter.......

you can't resist

... I didn't draw that picture... the world wide web however...
Catch another one....

This post was edited by Penzyak-04.10.2012 13: 40

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th something like that in the century before last, and why would pedeefki not put up.

- so this is cut out of a huge PDF file, a year or so - then not everyone had computers!! especially in the provinces...

Well, then in 2004 I managed to buy an old Taiwanese laptop for a lot of money - otherwise I would never have had time to write 50 essays for our KK. Now I look at it and wonder - a typewriter can be said to have scanty options and memory... how it worked is unclear. AND NOTE THAT I BOUGHT IT WITH MY OWN MONEY - ACCORDING to THE CC PROJECT, I was given a total of 1/4 of its amount... So if someone thinks that you can cash in on KK... Then it's better not to do it at all!!!
Yes, and who now curates species and writes essays on lepidoptera (other orders of insects) for the new edition of the Red Book of Russia ???
I haven't seen any discussion of this project anywhere-MIRACLES!!?????????????????? Again, for the European part of the Russian Federation, butterflies will be counted on one hand. Ow-ow-ow-ow-ow-ow-ow-ow? Probably the authors don't read this page - they were afraid of the subtitle. The moderator can remove it finally, how much can you ask for it!!?

Now you will laugh.
I do everything for my own money.
Computers, microscopes, chemistry, boxes, pins, expeditions...
I write in my spare time.

However, not everyone likes my creations. In one of the Moscow magazines, as I learned at the REO Congress from its editor, my manuscripts are thrown into the trash without even opening them. Here is such a "scientific journal for everyone". And such is the respect for other people's work.

Nitsche, will turn over and on our street dump truck anashi

.. it's funny, I remember then my superiors constantly told me-reduce the number of species! Too much! The argument that there were far more insects in the fauna of the area studied than all other vertebrates was met with a sullen silence....

So was it about the CC or the cadastre?

The argument that there were far more insects in the fauna of the area studied than all other vertebrates was met with a sullen silence....

"Forgive the sullenness...", as the poet said. The authorities were not optimistic about the prospects of cooperation with the initiator of the transfer of insects to vertebrates...

Received a response from Korzunovich. He hadn't seen any Apollo feeding on lupin. Photos of butterflies of different species feeding on it are found on the Internet, but not enough.

It doesn't get any easier. Link to the studio! Lupine has been dealt with, so now let's see what species feed on Korzunovich...

A commission from RANO arrived at the school... to check the students ' knowledge, the headmaster took them to the history room for a lesson. The lesson goes perfectly, the children shine with knowledge about the subject... the inspector decided to get to the bottom of it...
- children and what kind of people are depicted in the portraits weighing in class!??
"It's Lenin!
"It's Brezhnev!
- And this ...(weighs a portrait of Karl Marx) is our janitor... Uncle Vasya!!!
....deathly silence....
On the same day after the commission leaves, the director calls the janitor to the office.
- How many times can I ask you, Vasily Kuzmich, TO SHAVE YOUR BEARD!!!
"All right, I'll shave off my beard, but it's better to put it somewhere else........

Imagine, Oleg, I went to the same school in a different class, and this version of events was once told to me and others by Uncle Vasya himself, who was very concerned that a different version would not penetrate the masses. But the headmaster had his own version of the event, in which he didn't look like such an unrequited loser. According to her, the dialogue did not hang in the air after the janitor's plane ride, but exhausted both points:
- How many times can I ask you, Vasily Kuzmich , to SHAVE OFF YOUR BEARD!!!
- Well, I'll shave off my beard, but where to put the skill.......
- And this is just boldly grow. As much as I can ask you, Vasily Kuzmich...

Yes, and who now curates species and writes essays on lepidoptera (other orders of insects) for the new edition of the Red Book of Russia ???
I haven't seen any discussion of this project anywhere-MIRACLES!!?????????????????? Again, for the European part of the Russian Federation, butterflies will be counted on one hand. Ow-ow-ow-ow-ow-ow-ow-ow? Probably the authors don't read this page - they were afraid of the subtitle. The moderator can remove it finally, how much can you ask for it!!?

http://narod.ru/disk/62033634001.3700a366b9da9d07ccfbad1f6749ad32/Koroleva%20benzokolonki.avi.html

A. Y. Elez
Permanent participant
Moscow
yesterday, 07: 52 URL #686
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Due to the size of the message, I give it in a separate file.
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Andrey, I read your magnum opus, thank you. But you are painting a picture of universal chaos. If this were the case in nature, then there would be no ordering of natural communities, but a continuous mosaic of chaos. Of course, it is impossible to deny that some organisms randomly fall anywhere, but it is also impossible to deny that an infinitesimal number of them take root after this. Therefore, it is not scientific to explain the dispersal of species in this way - you might as well talk about the drift of proto-life with volcanic emissions from Mars or comets. In nature, only moving entire biomes works effectively. (It is even so with people - we are molecules, and in the organization-strength)
Regarding the Oka flora and entomofauna associated with it, yes, modern nerdy botanists generally prefer the version of random drift (either on the boots of Batu's troops, or by winds and birds, or by the waters of the Oka River). If the first 2 options are absurd (see above) (and the first one is absurd to the point of delirium and because objectively Batu could not have had a huge semi-monstrous army on the Oka, but there were only 3-4 tumens of selected cavalry-approximately like Budyonny's 1st cavalry). The version of the mass drift of forest-steppe forests by water does not stand up to criticism for 2 provisions. 1) ALMOST ALL THE RIVERS OF THE Upper and Middle OKA BASIN and IT ITSELF FLOW FROM THE FOREST ZONE, where there is no large SEDIMENTATION, SEDIMENTATION ON THE OKA APPEARS ONLY AT THE BORDER OF THE TULA AND OREL REGIONS, but it is weak and fragmentary throughout from there to THE PTZ, and REACHES ITS MAXIMUM IN THE AREA OF THE PTZ. In addition, after all, there is a settlement to the north, up to Yaroslavl, Luga and the Baltic States, where rivers from the forest-steppes also do not flow, but rather naroborot!. In general, PTZ sedimentation is comparable to that in the South-west of the Tula region (the Donets River basin) and in some respects even to the more southern regions. And to the east on the Oka, there is no longer any settling down, although large southern tributaries appear from places that sometimes belong to the forest-steppe, but are actually an anthropogenic forest field of the forest zone. 2) And what about insects, including those that do not fly or are practically unable to fly more than 1 km from the station?
Here are insects-this is an iron proof of the failure of the theory of water drift (I'm not talking about other ways), and the correctness of the theory of xerothermal phases. The only exaggeration there is that there were no steppes before the Baltic, but there was a reduction in forests and the spread of steppe people along watersheds, i.e. a similarity of forest steppes, mainly on forest zonal soils.

So if someone thinks that you can cash in on KK... Then it's better not to do it at all!!!

Publishing CC is not just about writing specific essays.

Penzyak
is a permanent member
of the company. Penza, Volga
region yesterday, 11: 46 URL #687
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Yes, and who now curates species and writes essays on lepidoptera (other orders of insects) for the new edition of the Red Book of Russia ???
I haven't seen any discussion of this project anywhere-MIRACLES!!?????????????????? Again, for the European part of the Russian Federation, butterflies will be counted on one hand. Ow-ow-ow-ow-ow-ow-ow-ow? Probably the authors don't read this page - they were afraid of the subtitle. ===============================================
Oleg, there is all the same "dirty deck". They think in their offices that they know everything best. An exception, apparently, is made by orthopterologists.
But now we are not the same as in 2001 - we can also give a review.
But there are reports that the CCRF has been ordered to reduce the number of species, especially insects, to a minimum. 1) Insects are not the object of scientific interest of those who manage this project.2) This is also a straw for the" permanent " would-be authors-maybe at least for a minimum of the rarest species they will finally write normal essays.3) The CC plans to provide an extended appendix-a list of rare species of Russia-without essays and annotations.
Only here's how they select even these species-we'll see soon.

Dear colleagues, is there a regulation on regional CC RF? If there is something similar, it would be interesting to see...

Publishing CC is not just about writing specific essays.

- Denis, of course, as a field entomologist, you know how much effort and time it takes to publish this work! The Red Book is, if I may compare it, well, for example, with a mountain system - just one of the peaks that rises above the entomological diversity, the system of rivers of scientific schools and the chaos of directions...
Well, or let's say it's easier, like cream on milk - at a shitty "hostess" they quickly turn sour or they are simply stirred with a spoon in the chaos of milk to give them questionable quality...
Even more simply, it is a huge effort to collect, identify and analyze the existing entomofauna in a particular subject of the Russian Federation.

The CC plans to provide an extended appendix-a list of rare species of Russia-without essays and annotations.

- Yes, Lavr Valeryevich, I have already noticed this in the list and brief annotations to the erect wings of the CC RF. I wonder what they mean by that. We must understand that this is a kind of list for regional CC, they say, let them analyze the species that are interesting to us on the ground-and we will decide there which species deserves a separate essay in the next edition! In principle, this is more like a separate publication - "Maintaining the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation" ... and no more. How many bureaucrats have spoiled my nerves in their time with the latest such application "Lists of species requiring attention..." to the CC RF Animals, 2001. In which all sorts of common swallowtail, death's head, etc. were introduced.... And the species in the CC itself-like a banal carpenter bee... We need more thorough testing and DISCUSSIONS with field entomologists on the ground... Funny, I found myself thinking about a Freudian typo... field commanders...

This post was edited by Penzyak - 05.10.2012 11: 52

Dear colleagues, is there a regulation on regional CC RF? If there is something similar, it would be interesting to see...

In the Russian Federation like this http://base.garant.ru/2155862/#1000 see point 1.6
and, accordingly, each subject has its own, but the bm is typical-example-http:/ / www. donland. ru/Default. aspx?pageid=105906

Penzyak
is a permanent member
of the company. Penza, Volga
region today, 12: 32 URL #702 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Red Book is, if I may compare it, well, for example, with a mountain system - just one of the peaks that rises above the entomological diversity, the system of rivers of scientific schools and the chaos of directions...
Well, or let's say it's easier, like cream on milk - at a shitty "hostess" they quickly turn sour or they are simply stirred with a spoon in the chaos of milk to give them questionable quality...
But even more simply, it is a huge effort to collect, identify and analyze the existing entomofauna in a particular subject of the Russian Federation.
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Well said. CC is an indicator not only of the area being explored, but also of the viability of the project's performers. It happens that the territory is studied, and the management of the CC goes to the scientifically incompetent scientific and pedagogical nomenclature, with naturally shameful results-it's time to put them forward even for a shnobelevku.
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We must understand that this is a kind of list for regional CC, they say, let them analyze the species that are interesting to us on the ground-and we will decide there which species deserves a separate essay in the next edition! In principle, this is more like a separate publication - "Maintaining the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation" ... and no more. How many bureaucrats have spoiled my nerves in their time with the latest such application "Lists of species requiring attention..." to the CC RF Animals, 2001. In which all sorts of common swallowtail, death's head, etc. were introduced.... And the species in the CC itself-like a banal carpenter bee... We need more thorough testing and DISCUSSIONS with field entomologists on the ground... field commanders
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Thanks to the efforts of bureaucrats, it will be so. And even the death's head and swallowtail may remain there, because then you will have to admit (albeit indirectly) the failure of the 2001 application, and the authors are almost the same.
Yes, in the army there are concepts of parquet generals and field commanders. The latter always beat the former. Similarly, entomologists and other biologists.

    
I also wrote in Russian - at least 2 of these swamps were pollen analyzed.

I also ask in Russian: butterfly pollen? Botanists have confirmed the age of the swamp, but not the period of existence of Aquilonaris on it. They can vary greatly. After all, swamp stations and their microclimate are by no means constant in time. Look at at least this material: http://www.stenus.ru/statia.php?id=383. Assumptions are not needed in the science of zoogeography. We need artifacts and physical evidence.

  
In addition, in the circles of those who do this (first of all, botanists, hydrologists, archaeologists, and entomologists are already the tenth case), it is well known that the last time the taiga was specifically in the Tula region.it was then, about 7,000 years ago. Then she was never here again!

Oh, come on. For 4,000 years, it moved even further south. There was a so-called climate pessimum. And 7,000 years ago-on the contrary, warming. That's what they taught us at the institute. Maybe it's wrong?

   
Only extrazonal isolates remained. They could grow up to 100 hectares during cold snaps, and they will shrink in the middle of broad - leaved forests, forest steppes, and steppes during warming periods. Under starvation conditions, they could expand up to 100 ha, and under warming conditions, they could contract up to 1 ha

The territory of the upper swamp is constant, it is a "lens" among postglacial sand terraces, changing its size in its evolution by percentages, well, by a quarter, a third, but by HUNDREDS OF TIMES... This is something new. Provide a link to your information.

   
And by air, a whole multi-species community of plants and insects (also swamp and taiga) can not get here in any way, if the biome does not move again!

How can it not be by air? What about the birds? The black grouse ate cranberries, flew to another swamp. I went big (sorry). The seeds have sprouted. With birds, seeds of other plants are transferred, and with their plumage - moss spores... 7th grade of school "Biology".

 
Some plant species with volatile seeds-yes, they are distributed

 
Well, what about the birds?!

  
some one or two insects have negligible chances of "accurately hitting" (for example, the wings of a maple tree have drifted - it has grown-in 10 years some maple butterfly has drifted to this place, and it needs to be a female, lay eggs, etc.

They can migrate directionally-for example, along postglacial terraces, on which the upper sphagnum marshes are located. Nature is a complex thing. A lot of things happen in it outside of our current ideas and knowledge. My theory: Aquilonaris lived in this area for thousands of years, periodically dying out in various swamps, due to climatic and other reasons (epidemics, forest fires, etc.), and repopulating them again, thanks to migrations of "creative" (2-5%) individuals. By the way, during the years of population outbreaks, 50% or even more individuals of the population can migrate. These outbreaks occur in all species.
This factor should also be taken into account.

It doesn't get any easier. Link to the studio! Lupine has been dealt with, so now let's see what species feed on Korzunovich...

I was fed (received mineral salts) by sephiza.

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Wild Yuri
today, 14: 20 URL #705
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After all, swamp stations and their microclimate are by no means constant in time. Assumptions are not needed in the science of zoogeography. We need artifacts and physical evidence.
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Yes, they are not constant, but pollen spectra show the constancy of taiga communities and some fluctuations in the proportion of surrounding landscapes - coniferous ones, deciduous trees and grasses.
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Oh, come on. For 4,000 years, it moved even further south. There was a so-called climate pessimum. And 7,000 years ago-on the contrary, warming. That's what they taught us at the institute. Maybe it's wrong?
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I don't know who taught you or when. Now it is known that recently (less than 4 thousand years ago) there was not a "pessimum", but the current sub-Atlantic period began-cooling after the xerothermal phase - in the mixed forest zone (Moscow region and north) there was an increase in taiga formations. But in the Tula region. this was reflected in an increase in coniferous trees in some places and, possibly, an increase in swamps, as I wrote about. But there was no connection between the taiga and its upper swamps and the Tula Zasek strip. The taiga has never crossed the Oka River since the beginning of the Atlantic period (i.e., the optimum with the onset of broad-leaved forests, about 7000 years ago), and even now there is a border of mixed forests.
Swamps dry up and overgrow, then develop. But those that develop are grass and moss without taiga plants.
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How can it not be by air? What about the birds? The black grouse ate cranberries, flew to another swamp. I went big (sorry). The seeds have sprouted. With birds, seeds of other plants are transferred, and with their plumage - moss spores... 7th grade of school "Biology".
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This is, sorry, from the realm of pure fantasy. The black grouse will never fly 150 km from the Moscow taiga to the Tula zaseki, and will not specifically look for a tiny swamp - but will "relieve itself" in the same place where it ate, maybe even right at takeoff. But what will sprout from there - and what is the chance - ???
Moss spores do spread, but we don't have any specific insects associated with them in the swamps. There are such insects in the green moss forests on the Oka River, but not a single species leaves the boundaries of these green moss forests. These are primarily leaf wrappers - they are not prone to flying at all.
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They can migrate directionally-for example, along postglacial terraces, on which the upper sphagnum marshes are located.
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They can only migrate through ecological corridors of the same type as their native biotopes. For example, in the mixed forest subzone among green mosses, this is quite possible for aquilonaris, but not very far away. And in broad-leaved forests, mixed forest species often simply do not go. For example, even such a massive type of mixed forest as shashechnitsa athalia-does not go into the broad-leaved forest zone for more than 15 km-although there are the same meadow stations, and there is a food supply.
And we don't have any postglacial terraces! These swamps of ours are located on the border of the Tula Zasek strip and the forest zone as a whole, and this border, apparently, was established after the melting of the ice of the Moscow glaciation. And butterflies don't recognize hidden geological structures in any way, they just don't need them. They can be guided by the smells of environment-forming plants and look for food closer to the body. As a medium-forming agent, pine is very good (but it is not found in its natural form in these areas) and other background plants of green mosses are probably suitable (they are especially absent here).
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My theory: Aquilonaris lived in this area for thousands of years, periodically dying out in various swamps, due to climatic and other reasons (epidemics, forest fires, etc.), and repopulating them again, thanks to migrations of "creative" (2-5%) individuals. By the way, during the years of population outbreaks, 50% or even more individuals of the population can migrate. These outbreaks occur in all species.
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It's clever of you to "declare" my theory as your own! (It's good that you don't write a dissertation).
I'm actually talking about this - in a separate forest area of several hundred or thousand hectares, there may be some ripple of swamps.
But the second "migration" part is already purely yours - it cannot be claimed due to its complete fantasticism, although desk scientists also often think so. (It's better to theorize about pansmermia from the moons of Jupiter).
In" my " aquilonaris, it is precisely during outbreaks of abundance (when approx. 50 specimens)" migrate " single males at a distance of about 100 m from the swamps. Females in general have never been seen even 3 m from the swamps. They have nothing to do outside their borders - after all, the environment is not "native".

They have a lot to do outside the swamp...
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A. Y. Elez
Permanent participant
Moscow
today, 07: 44 URL #708
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They have a lot to do outside the swamp...
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Andrey, I can't write so much "out of print" and I don't even have time to read your opus in detail, I'm sorry (if you wrote an article, if you gave me an impression, I would read it). About "our sheep" I can say one thing: flights of Tula aquilonaris "over the forest", "through the forest" and on agrocenoses are completely excluded. Even the banal selena doesn't fly that way. Dia-ta yes, it can fly through agrocenoses.
For this conclusion, you need to walk around these swamps with confidence. I probably spend as much time in the fields as you do, and I know who migrates and who doesn't.
If you are surprised by the cohabitation of aquilonaris and optilete in some Moscow swamps, then this is explained very simply: they belong to the same type of biogeocenosis with a common trophy. And the absence of tulia or paleno in the same place is due to a shortage or lack of food supply. But the Moscow swamps are also extrazonal, although they are less isolated from the main area than the Tula ones. And extrazonal small biogeocenoses are inevitably depleted. But in the cranberry consortium, aquilonaris is the most persistent species, because in the Tula region. it is there, but there is no optometry, and there are not even cranberry leafmakers. About the Colorado potato beetle: no one is going to explain its presence in Europe as "relict", because the main stages of its penetration here are known, although not every region has someone to follow it. But we are witnesses of its appearance in our region. For example, in ocd. Tula, it was first noticed in 1974 - according to the observations of those who constantly grew potatoes in their gardens.

That aquilonaris and optilete are together doesn't "surprise"me. I talked about swamps where both species exist, and biocenotically similar swamps with one of them or none at all, and that the similarity of biotopes and a sufficient area do not guarantee the coincidence of entomofauna. Sometimes even more kormovukhi where there is no insect under it. But even this bias does not "surprise" me, because from my point of view it is just understandable. This applies not only to swamp fauna.

I also know about the food base as a condition, and you have repeated it more than once; but it was not about the conditions of the species ' existence, but about the reasons for the appearance of a species at a point: not because of what it survives, but how and where it came from. About whether in critical years, when there is a shortage of food for adults, butterflies are more likely to die than fly off to the side. And I don't know about experiments on removing everything that blooms in the swamp and detecting the reaction of guaranteed hungry aquilonaris. It was also a question of whether the subspecific identity of such "isolates" (possible over a large area and for a long time only in the presence of migration exchange) can be ignored here, solving the question only by a thousand-year observation in two eyes, until at the height from which the notorious agrocenosis below the butterfly does not care at all, it will not be documented a pregnant female starved and frightened by a dragonfly or bird. There are enough questions, and I do not know how to deal with them, if the flight (even involuntary, when something frightened an insect just "lets go of the reins" to the wind) can not be, because it can never be. I was less often in the field, but I heard from my study rooms that in science, observing a fact proves its possibility, but not observing a fact has never been considered sufficient proof of its impossibility. And who will decide to state the impossibility of egg and caterpillar drift based on observations? However, you have again limited yourself to the habits of the imago, which I know, but do not explain much. My messages are caused not by the fact that I do not take into account the sedentary nature of the imago and need to be reminded of it three times, but by the fact that I also take into account something else that cannot be explained by the sedentary nature of the imago and cranberries, but by the" behavior " of aquilonaris eggs and the need to multiply "scanty" chances for the mass of individuals and for centuries of time, there are no evidential refutations yet. I have observed the effects of tornadoes and hurricanes in the Moscow Region and hurricanes in Moscow, and I believe that in such extreme conditions, not only imagos, caterpillars or fragments of vegetation with any eggs, but also a cigarette butt is quite capable of flying over long distances, even over the urban environment, without returning to its original position. But again, I received only the operative part of the verdict, while I am ashamed to bore you with my texts.

P.S. I met Koloradsky in Moscow on Kutuzovsky Prospekt (!) also somewhere in the early 1970s, when the local potato growers were just beginning to encounter this beetle. I am lucky that the" main stages of penetration " of at least this bright agri-influential gelding have been tracked for a long time, otherwise I would have had a hard time getting out if I had added empirical evidence to the version about the arrival of the Colorado potato beetle to Europe all the way across the ocean: after all, even simpler phenomena are "completely excluded" by science until it sees them with its own eyes in the process, and from retrospective conclusions (from consequences to causes), she dismisses as a desk fiction... OK, we'll wait and see.

This post was edited by A. J. Elez - 13.10.2012 07: 10

A. Y. Elez
today, 00: 55 URL #710
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...About whether in critical years, when there is a shortage of food for adults, butterflies are more likely to die than fly off to the side. And I don't know about experiments on removing everything that blooms in the swamp and detecting the reaction of guaranteed hungry aquilonaris.
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They do not die, but multiply. And there is always nectar for them. Even in lean years for plants. Departures at 100 m from the swamps are just due to the search for nectar. Because there is little variety in the swamp itself, and on the forest edges above it - much more. But for a coenopopulation of 50 individuals, these 100 meters are not always necessary.
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It was also discussed whether the subspecific identity of such "isolates" (possible over a large area and for a long time only in the presence of migration exchange) can be ignored here, solving the question only by a thousand-year observation with two eyes, ...
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As Zherikhin said, species are "buffered". If its isolates live in approximately the same conditions and eat the same plant, then their genetic trends will be so similar that there will be no subspecies differences. Although Simo was described from the Moscow swamp by V. aquilonaris simo Churkin, 2000. But it is difficult to accept this subspecies without knowing where it begins and ends in the optimal range.
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...while at the height from which the notorious agrocenosis below the butterfly does not care at all, a pregnant female, dazed with hunger, frightened by a dragonfly or a bird, will not be documented.
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Just because aquilonaris is the same size class as rutabaga doesn't mean it has to take off in the same way. I probably saw millions of boloria and checkers, but none of them was understood more than 3 m. These are ethologically" down-to-earth " butterflies, they dive into vegetation from predators.
In addition, there are concepts of K-strategy (local and dense existence) and r-strategy (migration behavior). There are also intermediate options. There is no pure r-strategy among boloria and draughtsmen at all; it only manifests itself when there is an abundance of suitable environments. For example: athalia, a class type of mixed forest, does not belong to the broad-leaved forest subzone. The same goes for mnemosyne (nominative subspecies) - there are lots of crested trees everywhere, beautiful stations, but you can't find it here (another thing-another southern subspecies) in a broad-leaved forest without at least an artificial pine planting. Or selenium - a massive non-cartographable species in the forest zone, and in the forest - steppe-after 10 km from the forest strip it becomes very rare-and this is due to the abundance of the same violets and the presence of eco-corridors along rivers and ravines. It seems to settle - I don't want to, the winds must carry them in masses to the forest-steppe - but no, for some reason they don't want to! Even with massive widespread species, random mechanisms for transferring individuals or their eggs over short distances do not work very well, especially since the probability of rooting rare species is vanishingly low!
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... On the other hand, I have heard from my study rooms that in science, observations of a fact prove its possibility, but non-observation of a fact has never been considered sufficient proof of its impossibility. And who will decide to state the impossibility of egg and caterpillar drift based on observations?
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Prove the possibility of the fact of the introduction of an individual (this is as much as you like), but do not prove the fact of the foundation of a new population. A NON-observation of a fact = its absence, at best - only a hypothesis about such a possibility. Speculative hypotheses based on assumptions that are not supported by facts are not reliable, and sometimes they are simply ridiculous. Therefore, until I see that the species flies through unusual landscapes, and not once, but regularly, I will not believe that it is prone to flights. From here, in the KK of the Tula region, the corydon and daphnis pigeons did not get (infrequently, but they fly apart, sometimes 30 km away from the stations), but mnemosyne got there, which, during periodic mass reproductions, flew no more than 2 km, but did not establish new foci where, although there is everything for it, but it needs to I don't like it for some reason.
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... but on the "behavior" of aquilonaris eggs and on the need to multiply "scanty" chances for the mass of individuals and for centuries of time, there are no evidential refutations yet. I have observed the effects of tornadoes and hurricanes in the Moscow Region and hurricanes in Moscow, and I believe that in such extreme conditions, not only imagos, caterpillars or fragments of vegetation with any eggs, but also a cigarette butt is quite capable of flying over long distances, even over the urban environment
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This is again from the area of random drifts. If you know of specific species that spread out in these ways, i.e. form new populations, then yes. If you don't know, then this adds to the ocean of "speculation", as some highly educated men will call it.

The CC topic has spread all over the forum - the moderator can still remove the subtitle of the topic... ????????????????????????????????????????????????????!!!

My 5 kopecks in the topic about CC...

The red book should be (ideally-as I understand it):

1. Based on your own experience (+information from good / trusted friends)
2. The illustrative series for example for our Penza CC (Animals, 2005) was taken exclusively (although no, there were two exceptions: the pavonia and the hostess bear - our specimens were very well flown, the material was agreed with the neighbors) by scanning OUR Penza insects with the following analysis: dreary, painstaking and long work for which I am grateful to Sergey Shibaev. But, the result is worth it-you can immediately see what color forms live here. + copyright to the illustrative series, not uncles from the side.
3. Biology and ecology should be tested on THEIR OWN SPECIES - and not stupidly compiled to hell with those from where! I don't even want to read such opuses (there are a lot of examples). Here the authors ' approach to business is clearly visible. Often you can see the same phrases from essay to essay (i.e. unsubscribe).
4. Mandatory links when quoting someone else's material (literary or pers/comm).
5. Indication of forage plants for butterfly caterpillars, for example, it is advisable to check in your area - AND ONLY THEN WRITE/give c. r. g. without references!!!!!
If you don't know your species ' CPR, please write links to the authors and preferably not inosranceff... on living somewhere nearby and having a similar natural area.
6. It is desirable to indicate data on the distribution of the species among neighbors (my editor wrapped it up - the argument was very vague - there is no place in the essays for this column either....).
7. The use of photos of insects in nature is very expensive to publish and there is no special meaning in them (for clumsiness or something?) I don't see. It would be much better and more informative to post photos of the biotopes of local insects (the same protected areas). For photos of insects in nature, it is probably better to have separate publications-such as "Maintaining the CC", as the same Mordovians regularly write (although insects are mostly banal there - G. Timraliev tried... a vivid example of ABSOLUTE ignorance of your entomofauna!!! and a complete discredit of the very idea of CC).
etc. etc. you can list a lot on this issue.

.. I used to approach things seriously and thoroughly, for me, if you do something, then do it well. A hack who needs it and for what??

Yes, and what is the situation with E. ausonia volgensis Krul in the Moscow region???
the photo looks like it ...
http://macroclub.ru/gallery/showphoto.php/...o/95250/cat/507

And here is an interesting fact from the Tula region for Lavr Bolshakov

http://macroclub.ru/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=88099

but by the way makhaonov caterpillars on dill in the Nizhny Novgorod region

http://macroclub.ru/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=90059

This post was edited by Penzyak - 19.10.2012 16: 44

  
Yes, they are not constant, but pollen spectra show the constancy of taiga communities and some fluctuations in the proportion of surrounding landscapes-coniferous, deciduous trees and grasses.

You're talking about flora again, and I was writing about fauna. Present proof of Aquilonaris ' existence in that swamp 7,000 years ago. It can only be assumed, and you wrote about it in the affirmative, as if you had copies of that era from there. Yes, there were cranberries in that swamp, and I didn't mind, but was it enough for the Aquilonaris population? And were there suitable microclimatic conditions for this type of butterfly in that era? And in general, where was the area of aquilonaris then? No one knows.

  
I don't know who taught you or when. Now it is known that recently (less than 4 thousand years ago) there was not a "pessimum", but the current sub-Atlantic period began-cooling after the xerothermal phase - in the mixed forest zone (Moscow region and north) there was an increase in taiga formations.

Taught by respected experts in botany, zoology, etc. And they reported the following:
Subboreal period (5000-2500 years ago) – with a cooling and drying of the climate;
Subatlantic (2500 years ago-our time) - with an increase in climate humidity and a general weak tendency to continue cooling.
http://www.rgo.ru/2010/08/izmeneniya-klima...cheskoe-vremya/.
So, let me remind you in the last post you wrote:
"It is well known that the last time the taiga was specifically in the Tula region. it was then, about 7,000 years ago. Then she was never here again!"
It turns out that you are now refuting yourself? And, by the way, the phrase "climate pessimism" is quite common in scientific usage. Enter it in Yandex and you will see it.

But in the Tula region. this was reflected in an increase in coniferous trees in some places and, possibly, an increase in swamps, as I wrote about.

You wrote about the increase in "ecstatic isolates" (swamps) by hundreds of times.

But there was no connection between the taiga and its upper swamps and the Tula Zasek strip.

I didn't say what happened. I only refuted your statement that the last time there was taiga in the Tula region was 7,000 years ago. 4000 years ago, it was also there, and even, probably, in a larger volume, due to a cold snap. Areas of taiga in the north of the region-let's say so.

This is, sorry, from the realm of pure fantasy. The black grouse will never fly 150 km from the Moscow taiga to the Tula zaseki, and will not specifically look for a tiny swamp - but will "relieve itself" in the same place where it ate, maybe even right at takeoff. But what will sprout from there - and what is the chance - ???

During the several thousand years you mentioned, the distribution of cranberries with grouse and hazel grouse (the latter probably also lived in the Tula Zaseki region during climatic pessimums) in the upper sphagnum swamps is quite possible. Birds can specifically search the swamp to eat berries and other "gifts of nature". Then fly to another place in the area. And very far away. Long-distance migrations of grouse and hazel grouse are known. And not so immediately "come out" of them seeds, by the way. When migrating, birds can "carry" them for 100 kilometers or more.

  
Moss spores do spread, but we don't have any specific insects associated with them in the swamps. There are such insects in the green moss forests on the Oka River, but not a single species leaves the boundaries of these green moss forests. These are primarily leaf wrappers - they are not prone to flying at all.

I didn't say anything about insects. It meant that moss spores are carried with birds - on their feathers.

 
They can only migrate through ecological corridors of the same type as their native biotopes.

Never say" only " in science. "Only" is the prerogative of the Inquisition. I repeat, I observed females of the stenopod sericin species in the mountain taiga, outside the ecological corridor (for example, near the ski station in Anisimovka), a friend caught it once on Russian Island, where there are also no sericin stations (the island is carefully studied by entomologists), one individual was caught in the Ussuri Nature Reserve, far from the places of Sericin (see Let me remind you that I have also seen the alcinous tree outside its ecological corridor-in the Khasan steppe. Here's what scientists say about butterfly migrations:: http://www.membrana.ru/particle/3687. Hundreds of kilometers in wind currents... Maybe it's about Sericin, too? About Apollo? I saw how some of his specimens "make a candle", soaring over the crowns of the clearing and do not return! And around the solid forest for several km. Maybe they go in the "wind flow" somewhere very far away, land on a new clearing and, not finding it suitable for colonization, fly further in the described way? This is quite possible. In the Voronezh and Lipetsk regions, well-trodden by entomologists, apollo populations have not been known for the last 30 years, and butterflies have been caught three times. By the way, in 1982 near Voronezh it was after a very windy day. The same "applies" to individual Aquilonaris individuals. I say, " Maybe." I don't say: "only"!

 
And we don't have any postglacial terraces! These swamps of ours are located on the border of the Tula Zasek strip and the forest zone as a whole, and this border, apparently, was established after the melting of the ice of the Moscow glaciation.

I agree that there are no such terraces in the Tula Zaseki, but there are some in the region - for example, along the Oka River.

 
And butterflies don't recognize hidden geological structures in any way, they just don't need them.

Well, you decided for the butterflies again. We don't know exactly what they recognize yet. What they can recognize. What will science reveal in the near and far future?

 
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My theory: Aquilonaris lived in this area for thousands of years, periodically dying out in various swamps, due to climatic and other reasons (epidemics, forest fires, etc.), and repopulating them again, thanks to migrations of "creative" (2-5%) individuals. By the way, during the years of population outbreaks, 50% or even more individuals of the population can migrate. These outbreaks occur in all species.
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It's clever of you to "declare" my theory as your own! (It's good that you don't write a dissertation).

I didn't announce anything, much less "cleverly". I just expressed my opinion. And this is a theory. Fortune-telling on coffee grounds. "There were aquilonaris - there weren't." This is not science. Science needs physical evidence. Like that cranberry pollen from the swamp, proving its existence there. And then only 7,000 years ago, and not in the intermediate epochs. I am always concerned about your peremptory attitude, which is completely unacceptable in the science of Biology. Not confirmed by sources. Just.

 
I'm actually talking about this - in a separate forest area of several hundred or thousand hectares, there may be some ripple of swamps.

Yeah, some of them already. Previously, it seemed to be hundreds of times...

 
But the second "migration" part is already purely yours - it cannot be claimed due to its complete fantasticism, although desk scientists also often think so. (It's better to theorize about pansmermia from the moons of Jupiter).

Well, yes, I'm theorizing, but you say unequivocally. With such radical opinions, references to scientific sources are desirable. I would like to see it at least once...

 
In" my " aquilonaris, it is precisely during outbreaks of abundance (when approx. 50 specimens)" migrate " single males at a distance of about 100 m from the swamps. Females in general have never been seen even 3 m from the swamps. They have nothing to do outside their borders - after all, the environment is not "native".

Did you mark them? How was the study conducted? Please read more. Here's how the aquilonaris study was conducted in Belgium. The possibility of migrations over 10 km is proved. And this, I think, is not the limit. http://gsite.univ-provence.fr/gsite/Local/...999BiolCons.pdf.

I am already tired of this aquilonaris, but what can I do if the question still stands and the thought still flows? A hypothesis, for the information of colleagues, is held in science not from the moment when its proponents were able to state the fact indicated by it with an eye or finger, but from the moment when it is proposed to explain some OTHER fact. This is how planets that cannot even be seen are discovered, how Mendeleev determined the atomic weight of an element more precisely than its discoverer, how the ancients put forward the atomistic hypothesis, and the empiricists, who banish reasoning from science, and get the truth not by deducing from facts, but only by direct observation of the fact itself, waited more than two millennia, until they removed their "I don't believe". The version of the possibility of full-fledged aerial dispersal (both arbitrary and involuntary) is quite consistent with the facts that it is intended to explain: with the presence of "isolated" populations that have allegedly refrained from forming subspecies for thousands of years, which even with complete similarity of biotopes would not have happened with actual isolation. This is enough for a hypothesis, and the hypothesis is held in science until its OPPONENTS find facts that would unequivocally prove the IMPOSSIBILITY of the fact indicated in it. A non-supporter is obliged to climb on an invisible planet with a magnifying glass or fly in the wind for laying eggs on a leaf, and then track the fate of their descendants for many years. Such a love of facts has nothing to do with the theory of knowledge or the methodology of science. The proponent of a hypothesis should demand facts from its opponents, and not vice versa, especially on issues that are technically possible or justified only by logical analysis of other facts, but not by grasping directly at the assumed fact! One could only feel sorry for the "scientist" with the topic, say, "Experience of organoleptic evaluation of the dynamics of the rotating spindle of a high-performance lathe"; with such a "I don't believe" you can even leave without a finger.

So I am waiting for ACTUAL evidence of the impossibility of brood of a population from a stray clutch of eggs. "Random" drifts are extremely likely, given the timing and number, but the death of material entered in ADEQUATE conditions would just be "out of the realm of random". Genetically, there are no quirks here, as any Muscovite knows who managed to drag a sofa from the old apartment to the new one at least once in the 1960s, forgetting to carefully scald it in all the cracks with boiling water; the population in the apartment soon forms such that all factology is removed at hand and even Thomas the unbeliever begins to scrape at night. Orthogrammaria or thinworm from the Woodlands (ganna?) they are also easily explained by the hypothesis of skidding, not necessarily air, but other explanations, with a wingless female in orthogrammaria, are much more likely to stumble upon "I don't believe".

Therefore, it is incorrect to ask if I know any species that spread out "in this way". I DO NOT KNOW OF ANY species THAT DO NOT RELIABLY DISPERSE in this way!!! And I also don't have any FACTS proving the fundamental non-reproducibility from drift material for each species. And the facts I have given are already quite enough (of course, if the ban on their COMPREHENSION is lifted). Not all propositions are verified by touch; each of us has enough knowledge of the history of natural science to understand this.

In "Nature" (I think, No. 2 for 1989) there is a large article about the birch moth, so it directly talks about the INSTINCT of aerial dispersal at the CATERPILLAR stage in this species, and also offers an alternative to flying or wind drift to explain the appearance of two non-birch (poplar and linden) large populations of this species on the territory of the USSR. I have NO EVIDENCE to suggest that such an instinct for "random" dispersal is a pattern and not an exception in the insect world. And let the opponents look for facts that prove the IMPOSSIBILITY of the assumed. Food is not always guaranteed by the imago, aquilonaris fly to the Doninskaya glade of the power line precisely from a very small and very hungry swamp for the imago, where butterflies almost do not have to squat on anything even in a good year. Destroy the flowers not only in the swamp, but also in those very 100 m from the swamp, and see if the aquilonaris will rest or still fly 200 m away. The fact that they were feeding only 100 m from the swamp, let's say "speculation", happened because there was food in 100 m! And if it hadn't been for him , would they have died together, or would they still have flown 200 m away? And even further? And without such experiments, all "I do not believe" are scientifically unfounded, because they do not prove the impossibility of scattering.

If I have more than once observed Aquilonaris far from 1 km from the nearest swamp, then prove to me that I know less about what to do OUTSIDE the SWAMP than a specialist who has observed Aquilonaris for a thousand years Within the swamp. And I categorically say that there is something Aquilonaris can do outside the swamp - first of all, FLY. After visiting A.V. Sviridov at the Moscow State University Zoomuseum last week, I specifically asked him about the behavior of aquilonaris, without referring to our discussion. A.V. Sviridov and biology students have been observing and catching this aquilonaris for years, also not individually, in the vicinity of Chashnikov (where the MSU biostation is located) and told me the following: aquilonaris-both Paula-there's SCRATCHING (sic!) FROM END TO END OF THE FIELD AND IS CAUGHT ONLY ON THE SPAN, AND NOTHING EVEN REMOTELY SIMILAR TO THE RIDING SWAMP, NO CRANBERRIES, ETC. THERE ARE NOT EVEN TENS OF KILOMETERS. Another MSU biostation, Zvenigorodskaya, has high swamps (now only one), but Chashnikov doesn't even smell of them. The Belgian limit of 11 km from the article suggested by T. Wild Yuri will also have a rest here.

Without inter - "population" contacts, without in-flight / drift renewal, many of the "populations" known to each of us (far from just marsh species) would have had to rest dozens of times over the millennia. If only because helicopter firefighting did not appear a thousand years ago. The fact that the small swamps of Aquilonaris scattered through the forest at a distance of several kilometers are only on these, and those are absent, is only a moment in history, in which the situation could have been different half a century ago.

This post was edited by A. J. Elez - 23.10.2012 08: 35

A. Y. Elez, Wild Yuri well, it's just great to read! Only the essence of the dispute is not clear, any butterfly can be as many kilometers away from its habitat as you want, even if it does not want to))) Flying can be banal to carry the wind, and not flying will fall on some moose and all, ride on the ball nnoe number of kilometers.
We have a pigeon Lampides boeticus regularly comes across, and after all, it does not enter it for 10 km and probably not even for 100 km, and maybe even for 1000! And then they fly quite alive, maybe they lay eggs, but our climate doesn't suit them, well, it doesn't suit them yet)

A butterfly of even a very rare and specific species may actually end up accidentally far away from its place - but of course, not for thousands of kilometers, but maybe for dozens. I've seen this happen with another equally local swamp species, the moth A. melanaria-but this is a species with a more sluggish flight and more exposed to winds - and was caught about 60 km from the nearest suitable station. But the probability that it will get to the right tiny place and become the founder of a new population for a specific species is negligible - rather, a meteorite will fall on its head. Even not very specific species, such as selena's mother-of-pearl and atalia's shashechnitsa, do not want to settle outside their natural zones, despite the almost continuous availability of suitable stations. But my "opponents" don't care about anything, just to show off with their more and more ridiculous speculations. Of course, I don't have to "prove" anything to them here, because I did and still do it in completely different places, and I just don't have time to "write on fences".
But I will say first about Chashnikovo, from where Sviridov remembered something after 40 years of his observations. He has an article about "two relict nymphalids" from those parts, so there are swamps there and they must be - this is the so-called "pine-swamp district" of the Moscow region. And along such corridors of pine forests with blueberries, aquilonaris can occasionally just fly for several kilometers, because this natural situation is close to that in the optimum of its range. but! In Sviridov's book (1982), written hot on the heels of those observations, there is NO point for aquilonaris not only in Chashnikovo, but even close! The new book by Eremkin et al. (2005) does not contain a dot there either. It "appears" only in the CC of the Moscow region, with the caveat that the presence of the species there is not confirmed. What was there "on the fly"? "is it Selene, or at least euphrosyne?" But I readily believe Sviridov, even if one or two aquilonaris flew several kilometers away , they will still die a thousand times before they find the next suitable swamp even in the swampy corner of the Moscow region.
I not only walked 100 meters from the Tula marshes, but also walked many kilometers between them dozens of times. And unscientific fiction about what" can be " in theory (with a success rate of about 1:1000000000), or someone wrote something in a magazine like "Murzilka" on a completely different occasion, can not convince me. I need facts from the territory we're interested in.
Secondly, about the interpretation of "optimums-pessimums". Atlantic period, usually associated with the "optimum" (for whom? and it depends where?), ended (I take 2 articles of paleoreconstructors from one collection of 2011, there are slightly different figures) 5000-4500 years ago. Then the subboreal period - 5000 (4500) - 2800 (2500) years ago. But at the beginning of it (those" 4000 years "according to Yuri, for 5000-3500 years according to the authors) in the current northern forest-steppe, a dry steppe with ephedra is established - the so-called "xerothermal phase". This is also confirmed by historical and archaeological materials - the settlement of nomadic Cimmerians in the steppes of Western Europe. And 2800 (2500) years ago, the current sub-Atlantic period began-the strengthening of the forest and the restoration of the forest steppe. But a special "cooling" in comparison with the current one is not visible. Such events occurred (alternating with warming events) for a short time, on average, after 200-300 years, such as the recent "little ice age" in Europe. But no taiga appeared to the south of the Oka River - only the presence of pine and spruce trees increased in some places, they were relatively recently removed and new ones were planted.
In general, Yuri, look at the map, read the literature (it is literature, not its garbage on the Internet), in the end, you will walk around here yourself - you can't even imagine the area under discussion, but you are sucking more and more wild fictions out of your finger!
And what does sericin have to do with it , Apollo? Yes, I also saw him fly up over the trees once, but how long did the birds let him fly, and even if the wind picked him up and carried him away-what's the use? "we can't find him any other suitable station. And a smaller mother-of-pearl with a weak "thrust-to-weight ratio", maneuverability and adaptability to flying above the ground has no chance of surviving high in the air at all. She understands her weakness, and does not go up-to certain destruction.
Yes, the remains of insects in the swamps are not preserved. But if we had the same plants that we have now 400,000 years ago, then probably insects have not changed much. Here Zherikhin wrote that the cockroach has not changed in appearance since the Cretaceous period. Reconstruction of the natural environment of the past based on individual fragments is called the "principle of actualism" in science - layers of dissertations are written, including I know a couple of doctoral theses on insects (Sachkov and Prisny) and you with your "thoughts" ... wrong address.

The fact that butterflies sometimes settle in a particular place, even a specific station, avoiding other places with similar conditions, I also met. But there are some other factors involved, because we are not talking about insurmountable obstacles and distances.
Butterflies can regularly fall into suitable places, but the population is not formed for some reason now, but this does not exclude the possibility of its formation in the future.
In general, now there seem to be genetic solutions that allow us to find out the relationship of populations, whether they occurred with the founder effect or whether they are relicts. So why argue, you need to check, you are entomologists, so check it out

  
And you ask who Lampides boeticus is, compared to it, mother-of-pearl is a terminator, and yet this beticus flies like even a thousand kilometers!

How far it flies by itself-that's the question. It is very likely (and most likely it is) that he does not arrive, but arrives. On trains, trucks, in old shoes, etc. Cases-a lot. For example, this summer in the Nizhny Novgorod region, 400 meters from the railway track, 3 fresh Lasionycta orientalis (Alpheraky, 1882), known only from Central Asia and the Altai-Sayan mountain country, were caught at one of the junction stations. Did you fly in and stay fresh? Not possible. More likely - that they came as pupae, but here in our places and hatched. And it is quite likely that not 3 or even 30, but probably much more - just someone brought a substrate that was rich or rich. But I'm sure we won't catch any of them here next year.

How far it flies by itself-that's the question. It is very likely (and most likely it is) that he does not arrive, but arrives.

I have always met very shabby Beticuses.
So I think the only question here is whether a particular species has a tendency to migrate, and a butterfly can always fly away from its habitat if it wants to!
I have considered cases when migration occurs due to external factors.

I have always met very shabby Beticuses.
So I think the only question here is whether a particular species has a tendency to migrate, and a butterfly can always fly away from its habitat if it wants to!
I have considered cases when migration occurs due to external factors.

Migration still needs to be proven. Shabbiness does not prove the migrant origin of the individual, it only proves that the individual has already lived well, and its age is declining.