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The Red Book and insects

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01.06.2012 14:54, vasiliy-feoktistov

For the last (the day before yesterday) day trip on the S-bahn jointly found !7 (seven)! "red book species" of butterflies (and maybe more: I just don't remember everything). At Kazansky railway station and on Nerskaya Street.
List (approximate):
Euchloe ausonia (Hubner, 1803)
Colias myrmidone (Esper, 1780)
Euphydryas maturna (Linnaeus, 1758)
Korscheltellus lupulinus (Linnaeus, 1758)
Lycaena tityrus (Poda, 1761)
Papilio machaon (Linnaeus, 1758)
Tyria jacobaeae (Linnaeus, 1758)
I started this with a thin thread simply, but now I've summed it up.
A penny is the price of this "Red Book of the Moscow region" mad.gif.

01.06.2012 15:13, Vlad Proklov

For the last (the day before yesterday) day trip on the S-bahn jointly found !7 (seven)! "red book species" of butterflies (and maybe more: I just don't remember everything). At Kazansky railway station and on Nerskaya Street.
List (approximate):
Euchloe ausonia (Hubner, 1803)
Colias myrmidone (Esper, 1780)
Euphydryas maturna (Linnaeus, 1758)
Korscheltellus lupulinus (Linnaeus, 1758)
Lycaena tityrus (Poda, 1761)
Papilio machaon (Linnaeus, 1758)
Tyria jacobaeae (Linnaeus, 1758)
I started this with a thin thread simply, but now I've summed it up.
This "Red Book of the Moscow Region" is worthless mad.gif.

L. tityrus is not included in the CCMO umnik.gif

01.06.2012 15:15, vasiliy-feoktistov

L. tityrus is not included in the CME umnik.gif

I thought so myself until now.

01.06.2012 15:41, Vlad Proklov

  I thought so myself until now.

HOLY SHIT!

01.06.2012 15:49, Aleksandr Safronov

  
.. A penny is the price of this "Red Book of the Moscow Region"mad.gif.

Don't be sad, these are just "funny pictures".
Well, just think, someone regularly squeezes out the dough for a righteous life, shoving the non-stuffed into the CC. At the present time, only the lazy and correct do not do this. And with the liberal education system imposed on everyone, KKMO will soon seem like a flower. As they say - all the "best" is ahead of us. rolleyes.gif

01.06.2012 16:58, Hierophis

Well, this is the other extreme! In theory, the CC should serve as a guide for determining land use opportunities, first of all, the insects included in it should be indicators of such biotopes that are unique and have a small area..

At the same time, the rarity of the insect itself is in the background! An insect can be quite numerous in its biotope, but it can't be found anywhere else, and there are a lot of such examples. If the biotope is vulnerable, then such an insect should be placed in the regional CC, or even in the state one, depending on the state of biotopes of this type in the whole country.

The most important nonsense is that all these CC's are essentially powerless if, again, big uncles, but already with a lot of money, decide to "squeeze out" part of the unique biotope, or at least all of it, for their own needs.

And I don't quite agree with the idea that bringing material to a "desk scientist" is evil, even if a scientist is a real enthusiast and specialist, he can't have time to research everything and cover all groups of insects, and when compiling a CC, this is what you have to do. I personally would not be sorry to give this material away, let them publish it under their own name, for science, in fact, it does not matter how the data was obtained, just taking into account the megailarity of our big scientists, and the need for them to do all this.. wink.gif
Likes: 3

01.06.2012 17:59, Vlad Proklov


For such cases, most CC's have Category 0-probably extinct species. Additions (or appendices) include either insufficiently studied species or species that are close to being included in the CC soon.

The zero category is "species that probably disappeared in the territory of the region". When some species are not registered in an intensively fished area for decades , there is an opinion that it is time to bury the flight attendant and transfer them to the application with extinct species.
Although apollo, of course, should be expected in the Meshchersky district of the region, in the wake of recent fires-which cannot be said about the other three species.

01.06.2012 18:08, Aleksandr Safronov

In theory, the CC should serve as a guide for determining land use opportunities, first of all, the insects included in it should be indicators of such biotopes that are unique and have a small area..

Hierophis, you've been surprising me with sane posts lately! I said it right. But the key phrase - "should serve as a guide for determining the possibilities of land use ..." and says that the CC today is an unprofessionally compiled publication that has no prospects for legislative implementation. I will not deliver snot, I will give an example. In the Kaluga region, P. apollo flew on a power line clearing in a pine forest-zelenomoshnik. Moreover, kirkazon grows all over the clearing, and it flew there on a small piece. People came there to catch butterflies. From year to year, the population successfully existed. Last year, the clearing was bulldozed. Kapets populations. Where are the CC compilers, who controls land use, and who is generally authorized to monitor rare and local wildlife populations? No one. It's a system, you know? Therefore, you can argue to froth at the mouth about what should be included in the CC and what should not. This is complete bullshit, since there is no system of legislative control and enforcement.

01.06.2012 18:17, Aleksandr Safronov

Damn, not kirkazon, but clean-up. I'm sorry, not a babochnik.

01.06.2012 18:28, Zlopastnyi Brandashmyg

exactly. on a silver platter.
for some reason, the gentlemen in jackets and offices think that they are doing us a great honor by accepting our material and then publishing it under their own name.

we'll send them together to the place where they usually put diapers on smile.gif


Oh, and the gentlemen "in jackets and offices"will be afraid. Well, absolutely" from the ceiling " they will write frown.gif

01.06.2012 18:50, vasiliy-feoktistov

Oh, and the gentlemen "in jackets and offices"will be afraid. Well, they will write completely "from the ceiling" frown.gif

So they already write it "from a fool" or "as my uncle said": according to the type of journalists.
Likes: 1

01.06.2012 20:31, rhopalocera.com

Oh, and the gentlemen "in jackets and offices"will be afraid. Well, they will write completely "from the ceiling" frown.gif


you just misunderstood me.
I mean ungrateful and unnecessary fuckers (may my colleagues forgive me for my French) who do not even deign to say thank you (and even mention your participation in a publication based on your material - this is generally from the field of fiction), who sit in their offices and for some reason think that the whole world owes them something. and for free.
Likes: 3

01.06.2012 22:54, Лавр Большаков

kotbegemot
Permanent member
This Country
today, 18: 59 URL #647
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The zero category is "species that probably disappeared in the territory of the region". When some species are not registered in an intensively fished area for decades , there is an opinion that it is time to bury the flight attendant and transfer them to the application with extinct species.
Although apollo, of course, should be expected in the Meshchersky district of the region, in the wake of recent fires-which cannot be said about the other three species.
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Category zero specifically in the Moscow CC - species not encountered in the last 30 years. In other CC's , it can be 50 or 100 years old. Of these 4 species, only tarpeia disappeared in the mid-twentieth century, the rest may still be found. But Apollo does not appear "in the wake of fires", but as soon as there are suitable corridors for resettlement from the Vladimir Meshchera. Through closed forests and ruderal wastelands, especially on fresh fires with nettles and chicken blindness, it will not settle even for 5 km (for example: the power line clearing from Kozelsk to the Tula region, densely overgrown with chicken blindness, birch and willow trees for several km).
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Entalex
Regular member
Tula
today, 19: 08 URL #648
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...In the Kaluga region, P. apollo flew on a power line clearing in a pine forest-green moss. Moreover, kirkazon grows all over the clearing, and it flew there on a small piece. People came there to catch butterflies. From year to year, the population successfully existed. Last year, the clearing was bulldozed. Kapets populations. Where are the CC compilers, who controls land use, and who is generally authorized to monitor rare and local wildlife populations? No one. It's a system, you know? Therefore, you can argue to froth at the mouth about what should be included in the CC and what should not. This is complete bullshit, since there is no system of legislative control and enforcement.
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In addition, this is not just a clearing, but part of a high-ranking protected area - a protected area of the Ugra National Park. But first of all, this population was very much reduced long before the clearing of the clearing - probably because many people annually caught it almost without exception in such a shallow area. Some of these trappers tried to blame the pipe of a small local factory as early as 2001. But apollo is sensitive precisely to genetic degeneracy in extremely local populations. Secondly, the key object here is a power transmission line - interference with it from shrubs is more important than populations of CC species. In addition, the administration of the national park is well aware of what grows there, what lives from vertebrates, but has no idea what lives from invertebrates; the compiler of butterflies in the KK of the Kaluga region. wrote at least essays and forgot about them - until the next edition is engaged in completely different things. And whether the population is "kapets" - this still needs to be checked. It is not the only one there-you should not go near Kozelsk, but go deeper into the forests.
And that there is no system-yes. But this is not a reason to whine, lament, or shit. CC - in many areas, the only way to record in detail what is living there in the current period and may eventually disappear.
Likes: 1

27.06.2012 13:47, vasiliy-feoktistov

About Nymphalis xanthomelas:
Likes: 1

26.09.2012 10:55, rpanin

Red Book of the Ukrainian Carpathians

File/s:



download file ________________________________.pdf

size: 15.21 mb
number of downloads: 662






Likes: 6

26.09.2012 12:32, Penzyak

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....In the Kaluga region, P. apollo flew on a power line clearing in a pine forest-zelenomoshnik. Moreover, kirkazon grows all over the clearing, and it flew there on a small piece. People came there to catch butterflies. From year to year, the population successfully existed. Last year, the clearing was bulldozed. Kapets populations. Where are the CC compilers, who controls land use, and who is generally authorized to monitor rare and local wildlife populations?
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.. what is the relationship between P. apollo and kirkazon already found? As Kisa Vorobyaninov used to say... _"However"!!!

26.09.2012 12:44, Aleksandr Safronov

 
.. what is the relationship between P. apollo and kirkazon already found? As Kisa Vorobyaninov used to say... _"However"!!!

If you didn't jump around on topics and pull chunks out of posts, you wouldn't be asking stupid questions. Immediately after this post there is a remark. wink.gif

26.09.2012 15:42, Dmitry Vlasov

  Red Book of the Ukrainian Carpathians

Ruslan, why do some species have points on the map in the territory of the Ternopil region, while others do not? After all, according to the text of the entry, TO is not included in the region under consideration.

26.09.2012 16:03, Penzyak

If you didn't jump around topics...

It is only fleas that jump on dogs, for the purpose of food and movement.

26.09.2012 16:47, Aleksandr Safronov

  
It is only fleas that jump on dogs, for the purpose of food and movement.

Subtle Penza humor?
You're not a reader, you're a writer, I've already figured that out.

26.09.2012 17:00, rpanin

Ruslan, why do some species have points on the map in the territory of the Ternopil region, while others do not? After all, according to the text of the entry, IT is not included in the region under consideration.

S-W Podillya can be considered a stretch as the Carpathian region, as well as the Transcarpathian lowland.
Besides, there were very few entomologists at that time. Accordingly, there is little fresh data.
Likes: 2

26.09.2012 21:11, Лавр Большаков

Penzyak
is a permanent member
of the company. Penza, Volga
region today, 13: 32 URL #656

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....In the Kaluga region, P. apollo flew on a power line clearing in a pine forest-zelenomoshnik. Moreover, kirkazon grows all over the clearing, and it flew there on a small piece. People came there to catch butterflies. From year to year, the population successfully existed. Last year, the clearing was bulldozed. Kapets populations. Where are the CC compilers, who controls land use, and who is generally authorized to monitor rare and local wildlife populations?
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what is the relationship between P. apollo and kirkazon already found? As Kisa Vorobyaninov used to say... _"However"!!!
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I specifically checked these facts, since I cooperate with the Non-profit Organization "Ugra". It turns out that this population of apollo, which lived in the late twentieth century for about 6 km, was almost exterminated by 2001 by collectors - especially some Muscovites and even Ukrainians (!). Then came the critical overgrowth of the clearing with shrubs. And the fact that it is finally partially (not completely!) cleared - this is rather a boon for apollo and many other species, because the corridor for flight opened up and a lot of cleaning was done. But this year there was no spread - a population of about 10 specimens. still alive on a plot of 2-3 hectares, but still after the tractor climbed and a lot of sorrel and cereals, and the appearance of the biotope is disturbed. And it looks like some, frankly, bastard caught a few copies. - after the first flight in a week, there are only 3-4 copies left. We'll see what happens next year.
Here m dolovilsya-now probably huntsmen there will go and fine to the fullest, because on this clearing lives a good half of the KK of the Kaluga region.
There will be a publication about this soon.
Likes: 2

27.09.2012 6:07, Dmitry Vlasov

S-W Podillya can be considered a stretch as the Carpathian region, as well as the Transcarpathian lowland.
Besides, there were very few entomologists at that time. Accordingly, there is little fresh data.

I meant not only insects, but also other invertebrates. For information: Hirudo medicinalis-Ternopil, "Stav", August 15, 2011

Pictures:
picture: pijavka.JPG
pijavka.JPG — (206.17к)

27.09.2012 11:40, Bad Den

a population of approximately 10 individuals. still alive on a plot of 2-3 hectares

IMHO, 10 ekz is not a population. More precisely , an unviable population.

27.09.2012 20:29, Лавр Большаков

Bad Den
Regular participant
Nizhny Novgorod
today, 12: 40 URL #664

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(Lavr Bolshakov @ 26.09.2012 22:11)
a population of approximately 10 individuals. still alive on a plot of 2-3 hectares

IMHO, 10 ekz is not a population. More precisely , an unviable population.
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How to say it. We have several populations of B. aquilonaris living on an area of 0.3-1 ha with population variations from 6-7 to 50-60 specimens. in season. During recessions, sometimes only 1-2 females are bred. They have been completely isolated from each other and from the taiga for at least 3000 (and according to some sources, 7000) years - these are relict taiga-type sphagnum swamps in the south of the broad-leaved forest strip, more than 120 km from the nearest similar isolates in the Moscow region. Butterflies do not fly more than 100 m from there, the swamps are surrounded by they are excluded from migrating through forests, and even if they did, they would still not find other populations.
Different species have different thresholds of critical abundance, and for insects they can be very low - all theories about "viable populations" of thousands of individuals are untenable here.
Likes: 2

30.09.2012 22:13, Wild Yuri

  
Different species have different thresholds of critical abundance, and for insects they can be very low - all theories about "viable populations" of thousands of individuals are untenable here.

I think only Einstein once said anything about the failure of ALL THEORIES, but most of us have much less ability and knowledge (including the author who writes herefrown.gif), which means... We need to be more careful about the structure of Nature. Yes, the critical population thresholds may differ for different species, but you should always specify the time periods to which this number is "tied": the period of observation of these populations. Let's say 10 years. Or a hundred. How many years have you been watching?
  
We have several populations of B. aquilonaris living on an area of 0.3-1 ha with population variations from 6-7 to 50-60 specimens. in season. During recessions, sometimes only 1-2 females are bred. They have been completely isolated from each other and from the taiga for at least 3000 (and according to some sources, 7000) years

What data is this based on? Sumerian entomologists? Real data on these populations are probably available only for the last 20-30 years, and the rest is "considerations". Science claims that 7,000 years ago, during the "first segment" of the Postglacial era, there were significantly more sphagnum swamps in our zone. And, I dare say, there were many more populations of related butterfly species. That is, the isolation of populations of a number of "northern" butterfly species at the latitude of Tula and Lipetsk did not exist at that time, but it probably appeared quite recently. If you look at a map of the Lipetsk region a hundred years ago, we will see on it 2-3 times more sphagnum and other watershed swamps. They are now dry. That is, the Aquilonaris micropopulations seem to exist in great isolation for a hundred, well, 150-200 years. This period is not particularly critical for their viability, and the "validity of theories" does not kill. In addition, gene exchange between populations, I think, still occurs. Population biology estimates that 2 to 5 percent of all butterfly species have "migration genes" and are prone to dispersal. Migrant individuals travel long distances in search of new stations. As a rule, these are fertilized females flying in a" random direction "(or along certain" vectors " of biotopes, gullies, etc. - the topic has not yet been studied) of 10, 20 or more kilometers. Solitary apollo females were caught in the Voronezh Region, 150 km away from the only known Tambov population in the region, females of the even more sedentary sericin were caught in "alien" hills, 10-15 km away from the hotbeds of summer, and so on. The same is probably observed in aquilonaris. 2-5% of individuals migrate, getting into neighboring populations of the district and remote places and thus making a genetic exchange. I am sure that they can also overcome "bare watersheds". I once caught an alcino in the Khasan forest-steppe, God knows how far from his "taiga homeland". The topic of butterfly migration requires further, thorough study. So let's not bury the well-known theories yet.
  
I specifically checked these facts, since I cooperate with the Non-profit Organization "Ugra". It turns out that this population of apollo, which lived in the late twentieth century for about 6 km, was almost exterminated by 2001 by collectors - especially some Muscovites and even Ukrainians (!). Then came the critical overgrowth of the clearing with shrubs. And the fact that it is finally partially (not completely!) cleared - this is rather a boon for apollo and many other species, because the corridor for flight opened up and a lot of cleaning was done.

The impact of trapping on the number of butterflies, and in particular Parnasius apollo, has not yet been studied by anyone. I haven't seen any scientific publications on this topic. This means that the opinion about the extermination of the population by collectors is, to put it mildly, unfounded. It was necessary to take into account the number of collectors and the butterflies they caught in different years, comparing them with the control area. At least. And then draw conclusions. According to my own observations, when your author & Companions sinned about 20 years ago by catching apollons in the Tambov forests, the number really decreased. I compared it to that in a "wild", unfished place. I repent. I don't catch Apollons anymore. I grow them now. So, there was a difference in population density for the next post-capture season. There were 20-30% fewer Apollos in the "oblivaemaya" area. That's all. The trapping factor and its participants are pretty much demonized. And years without it, the population was fully restored. Tambov apollons were fatally harmed by the" planting " of glades inhabited by them by the local forestry department, fireballs in their places along the railway, which eliminated hare cabbage (caterpillar food) and nectaronoses, as well as trampling and mowing them near settlements. And, by the way, "a lot of cleaning", as mentioned above, is not the main factor favoring the Apollons. Main: nektaronosy! Their abundance. A sea of nectar, to put it creatively. The butterfly is large, its stations are "hot", and it requires a lot of moisture, as well as sugars, to maintain its vital activity. Red clover, oregano, and other" mighty " nectarines abounded in the Apollo summers, but very rarely... hare cabbage! On the contrary, there were glades nearby where "cabbage ran amok", and Apollons - zero! They were absent, because there were only a few nectarines. In their own "population capital", in the heat, the apollons literally crowded on the red clover, greedily dipping their proboscis into the inflorescences and giving in to their hands! I dreamed, wandering through the Tambov glades: I would buy a bag of clover seeds and invite a tractor driver... smile.gif

This post was edited by Wild Yuri - 01.10.2012 00: 45
Likes: 4

01.10.2012 0:40, Wild Yuri

An ideal artificial population of Apollo: borovaya sunny glade, on the left-a strip of hare cabbage, on the right-red clover (in the Moscow region - lupine). Point. Just find the time and money...

01.10.2012 8:53, Лавр Большаков

Wild Yuri
yesterday, 23: 13 URL #666
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.... Real data on these populations are probably available only for the last 20-30 years, and the rest is "considerations". Science claims that 7,000 years ago, during the "first segment" of the Postglacial era, there were significantly more sphagnum swamps in our zone. And, I dare say, there were many more populations of related butterfly species. That is, the isolation of populations of a number of "northern" butterfly species at the latitude of Tula and Lipetsk did not exist at that time, but it probably appeared quite recently. If you look at a map of the Lipetsk region a hundred years ago, we will see on it 2-3 times more sphagnum and other watershed swamps. They are now dry. That is, the Aquilonaris micropopulations seem to exist in great isolation for a hundred, well, 150-200 years.
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Sphagnum swamps in the density required to overcome the isolation of aquilonaris were exactly approx. 7000 years ago. But some swamp experts admit that even 3000 years ago there were still quite a lot of them, but this is only speculation - because the surrounding nature has already become immoral or steppe-absolutely unfavorable for taiga communities. I will not bore you here with a list of works with attempts at paleogeographic reconstructions - who needs it, they know and will find it, and for whom it is "high matters" - and there is no point in reading.
In addition, not every swamp has cranberries-but other plants (as far as I can see where they are, but there is no aquilonaris) she doesn't like it in our latitudes. Here in the Prioksky forests of the Kaluga region there are a lot of swamps, all around solid blueberries and lingonberries-but no aquilonaris. More precisely, it was specified 100 years ago, but now it is not found.
==============================
This period is not particularly critical for their viability, and the "validity of theories" does not kill. In addition, gene exchange between populations, I think, still occurs. Population biology claims that 2 to 5 percent of all butterfly species have "migration genes" and are prone to dispersal...
==============================
Even 150 years (as you think) is already quite critical.
And the migrants of our aquilonaris do not fly more than 100 m from the swamps. They have nowhere else to fly - there are no ecological corridors. Another thing is that in the taiga zone they are more mobile, because they live in an optimal natural environment. But even if they spread out for tens of kilometers-let out of 10 females (with an increase in the number) 1-2 fly - but the probability that they will find other such swamps is negligible. There are 5 swamps known in the Tula region, the distance between the two nearest ones is 3 km, but not a single butterfly flies to the neighboring swamp, because it is blocked by an agricultural landscape and forest, and 100 years ago the forest was larger and thicker, and 3000 years ago it covered everything in general.
As for the Apollo "150 km away" - it can be a wind drift. Or even an unknown population closer.
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The impact of trapping on the number of butterflies, and in particular Parnasius apollo, has not yet been studied by anyone. I haven't seen any scientific publications on this topic. This means that the opinion about the extermination of the population by collectors is, to put it mildly, unfounded. It was necessary to take into account the number of collectors and the butterflies they caught in different years, comparing them with the control area. At least. And then draw conclusions. According to my own observations, when your author & Companions sinned about 20 years ago by catching apollons in the Tambov forests, the number really decreased. I compared it to that in a "wild", unfished place. I repent. I don't catch Apollons anymore. I grow them now. So, there was a difference in population density for the next post-capture season.
=================================
Of course, there was no complete accounting of collectors and their fees, but it was enough to see 3 of the most malicious hunters - and what happened next year-everything became clear. But even then the trapping did not completely stop, and the overgrowth of shrubs began. So the fact of extermination is obvious - and your own observations confirm this. In addition, they exterminate fresh butterflies that have not had time to realize their reproductive potential..
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. And, by the way, "a lot of cleaning", as mentioned above, is not the main factor favoring the Apollons. Main: nektaronosy! Their abundance. A sea of nectar, to put it creatively.... Red clover, oregano, and other" mighty " nectarines abounded in the Apollo summers, but very rarely... hare cabbage! On the contrary, there were glades nearby where "cabbage ran amok", and Apollons-zero
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Yes, it certainly is. But there is quite enough nectar there that Kozelsk has-although more at the expense of complex and umbrella plants. The clover is a little off to the side, but the butterflies don't fly at it.
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An ideal artificial population of Apollo: borovaya sunny glade, on the left-a strip of hare cabbage, on the right-red clover (in the Moscow region - lupine). Point. Just find the time and money...
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Lupine is an alien introduced element for the Moscow region. We need to look at the nature of the stations where Apollo has been preserved, and strive for this composition. Unfortunately, we don't have the resources to artificially enrich ourselves with nectarines.
Likes: 1

01.10.2012 8:58, rhopalocera.com

01.10.2012 13:28, Penzyak

. Well, then what do you Stas develop aquilonaris caterpillars on ??

We have swamps with cranberries of different sizes - but I can't find aquilonaris!?? There are a couple of points with blueberries - there is no peatland yolk?? There are wet blueberries - there is a swamp pigeon... why isn't it in the blueberry swamps?? This is the year we look for jutta in those swamps and adjacent mixed forests and pine forests... also, there is no result yet... A lot of riddles in one word-I need research and researchers, I can't keep up with my colleagues everywhere.

Here's the swamp hayloft:

http://molbiol.ru/forums/index.php?showtop...55#entry1351255

01.10.2012 13:45, rhopalocera.com

. Well, then what do you Stas develop aquilonaris caterpillars on ??

We have swamps with cranberries of different sizes - but I can't find aquilonaris!?? There are a couple of points with blueberries - there is no peatland yolk?? There are wet blueberries - there is a swamp pigeon... why isn't it in the blueberry swamps?? This is the year we look for jutta in those swamps and adjacent mixed forests and pine forests... also, there is no result yet... A lot of riddles in one word-I need research and researchers, I can't keep up with my colleagues everywhere.

Here's the swamp hayloft:

http://molbiol.ru/forums/index.php?showtop...55#entry1351255



You probably don't have Jutta. Too far south. We have it in the north of the region, south of the Volga - bolt.

As for gonobobel and the absence of paleno-I can cite dozens of such swamps in the Nizhny Novgorod region. Little blueberries for her.

I don't know what Aquuilonaris is developing on. But what is not on cranberries is absolutely certain. It's just not there. The swamps themselves are 20 x 40, 50 x 40, 80 x 70 m in size, it is unrealistic not to find cranberries on such an area smile.gif. and then - I'm a northern man, with a passion for mushrooms and berries, a walker, I would see-a trained eye.

01.10.2012 18:08, Лавр Большаков

rhopalocera.com
Permanent participant
Nizhny Novgorod
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In the south of the Nizhny Novgorod region (Arzamas district), aquilonaris lives on sphagnum microbolts. Swamps are formed by karst lakes (succession, a typical example), respectively, their age is a maximum of 100 years. karsts are located pointwise in an array of pine forests (well, not a typical biotope for aquilonaris), there is no sign of cranberries there. And aquilonaris is. The nearest large swamp is 25 kilometers away, along the same pine forests, plus quite extensive lakes.
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Arzamas is a strip of mixed forests. There it is quite possible that the places are more optimal for this species, the degree of its "eurytopicity" increases, and the food base expands. Or these populations are simply used to another forage plant from the heather. It can be blueberries or lingonberries. Then green moss pine forests are a good ecocoridor for the species that are associated with these plants.
But in our region - only cranberries, and where on the Oka and north continuous multi-kilometer thickets of blueberries and lingonberries, aquilonaris is not known now. And in the Tula zasekas, blueberries and cranberries disappeared even in the Atlantic optimum, because mixed forests were replaced by purely broad-leaved ones on gray forest soils and without admixtures of green moss hogs. Two of our cranberry swamps were analyzed for pollen-their age is about 7-10 thousand years.

02.10.2012 1:27, А.Й.Элез

In the Moscow region, north of the Kazanskaya railway, on the Khripan - Donino stretch, I observed the departure of aquilonaris (in some years of its mass production!) approximately one kilometer from the nearest peat bog with cranberries (very small area). There are no bright enough paths with flowers along the roadsides to this and other surrounding swamps, but butterflies did not feed on a single power line glade. They could get from the swamp to the power line clearing in those places either under the canopy of a mixed forest with a predominance of conifers, which I would have definitely noted once (but I didn't!), or simply over the forest, because for a number of other types of mother-of-pearl (and not only), the screw goes into the sky and disappears behind the forest - no wonder. (The latter method of settlement and mixing should not be overlooked or excluded a priori.) In the swamp itself, there was clearly not enough food for imagos in those years, there is not enough of it at all, and the area of the swamp is negligible. How insignificant, by the way, is the area of the Molzhaninovsky swamp (surrounded by a terrible anthropogenic phenomenon) in Moscow: you can view it from one point and make sure that there are no imagos that appear sporadically from somewhere and disappear again from somewhere in the swamp, while being absent from the surrounding dry mixed grasses - and to the Filinsky swamp, where they are found the main lair, there are not hundreds of meters, but a kilometer with a hook. Years of mass brood and, accordingly, lack of nutrition of adults are the years of settlement and migration exchange. In addition, there are other incentives to fly away: in particular, a temporary - for one reason or another - shortage of anxious individuals of the opposite sex; on the well-known Kozelskaya clearing, I once noted (with a little experience) leaving the forest-and not returning back! "a virgin female apollo who wouldn't even be able to get up on a wing without throwing away a good half of her reserve." Since these stimuli occur only sporadically in the acute form, we usually don't notice departures, and you can't keep track of every butterfly. But, as the poet said about the biological migration exchange (I can't vouch for the verbatim):

The wild beast runs from
thicket to thicket,The Crab crawls to the shore in the moonlight,
And the hawk wanders high-

All are sick with Hunger and Passion of the almighty: flying and running,
Swimming in the black depths.
Likes: 2

02.10.2012 9:40, А.Й.Элез

About blueberries and palaeno. In the Moscow region, I know a lot of places with blueberries, but without palaeno. But I have one caveat in all cases so far: if there are sufficiently large areas where blueberries are spread out at least not in a continuous pattern, but in spots, palaeno usually lives there, flying freely from site to site in the presence of light corridors that are not polluted by anthropogenic factors. On the contrary, in places overgrown with blueberries up to the very sideburns, the butterfly is absent when the area of a blueberry house (or a complex of isolated but close blueberry houses!) it's not enough for her. If you find a butterfly in a small swamp, you should always conclude that either you are present during the agony of the local population, or there are at least several such small swamps in the immediate vicinity. The latter occurs, for example, in the apollo clearing in the Kozelsky district of the Kaluga region; although the blueberry-peat areas are very small in the clearing itself, taking into account the close areas scattered throughout the forest, there is enough food for both palaeno and Arichanna melanaria. In the south-west of the Ivanovo region (known here to many places to the north-west of Frolishchi) at one point, without leaving my place, I took both apollo and palaeno on a dry sun-drenched clearing in the sand - all because drained (and not very) peat bogs are scattered here and there in the local forests with blueberries. In the Shatursky district (at least from the Baksheevo - Klyazma River meridian east to the border with the Vladimir region), palaeno inhabits peatlands developed or drained during the reign of Tsar Pea, along dry sandy forests, but it is blueberries (unlike other plants) that are perfectly preserved in the places of former swamps after draining and even drying out. thriving. However, there is a small swamp to the south of Pavlovsky Posad MO (south of the highway to Dresden), which has survived after a long-time drainage for summer cottages; there are enough blueberries, but no palaeno, because the swamp is lonely among forests and anthropogenic factors. In the same situation is the upper bog on the Nerskaya River (which many people know from myrmidone and others, but hardly anyone knows about the peat bog there), where blueberries are plentiful, cranberries are plentiful, but I haven't met palaeno, and aquilonaris and optilete are massive. There are other swamps with blueberries in that direction, but not close to this one. There is nothing to say about blueberries of a smaller area. But in the vicinity of the Zhidoviny palaeno there is enough-blueberries are scattered widely, besides the swamp is cut by a gas pipeline glade, where there is several times more fodder for adults per hundred than on a hectare of the peat bog itself.

Never marked palaeno on undergrowth peatlands. I know of one place in MO where blueberries are more dense than all the northern marshes of the region put together, where blueberries can be collected by carts - a truly blueberry country; but this swamp (located around the lakes) is entirely under the canopy of a century-old coniferous forest and has no more open areas, no other vegetation of the upper marshes (cranberries, myrtle, wild rosemary, fluff, etc.), and only blueberries and blueberries bloom there for the whole year. Palaeno in such darkness, of course, is absent.
Likes: 4

02.10.2012 17:46, rhopalocera.com

C. palaeno populations in the Nizhny Novgorod region have the same dependence on illumination.
Likes: 1

02.10.2012 21:53, Wild Yuri

 
Lupine is an alien introduced element for the Moscow region. We need to look at the nature of the stations where Apollo has been preserved, and strive for this composition.

The composition of the station is like this (photo by Pavel Korzunovich). Lupine barrens! On which Apollo lives in a number of places in the Vladimir region. It is lupine that is the main nectarose for them there. It seems that without this plentiful nectar supplement, there would be fewer butterflies. Or maybe it wouldn't have happened at all. In the Tambov region, I found a clear correlation between the number of apollons and the nectar productivity of the land. Most of all, Apollo was in a clearing with curtains (literally flower beds!) red clover. Lupine flower beds in the glades! Around the" rim " of hare cabbage. And Apollo will be saved. smile.gif

Pictures:
picture: IMG_1122.jpg
IMG_1122.jpg — (189.06к)

picture: apollo_13_2.jpg
apollo_13_2.jpg — (65.56к)

02.10.2012 22:03, Wild Yuri

Two of our cranberry swamps were analyzed for pollen-their age is about 7-10 thousand years.

Above, I did not write about the age of the swamps, but of the Aquilonaris populations. Not the fact that they exist on them for the same 7000 years. The microclimate of the stations could have changed dramatically since then. And the "macroclimate" was different. That is, from a scientific point of view, we can talk about the habitation of aquilonaris in these swamps only during the period of their observation there (the last 40-50, well, 100 years), and the rest is just speculation.

02.10.2012 22:54, А.Й.Элез

There was clearly a misunderstanding or mishap about Apollo's food supply on lupin; I'd gotten used to Lupin being a nuisance in this lane over the years. A butterfly is a butterfly, and lupin can accompany it by coincidence, like a sleeve that is not sewn to a valva. It was just bad luck for the tract in the photo, infected by the damned lupin, and for a long time. But there is no direct link between Apollo and Lupin, except that Lupin and Apollo have a parallel liking for open areas, and that's all. There are also plenty of other tracts (and clearings) with apollo in those parts, where lupine does not smell, since the soil is too deep-fried for it, where even a dream does not grow in carpets, and only small things like hawks, clovers, krestovnik, etc. break through from the flowering one. In the Vladimir region, apollo on lupine often rests at dusk or in cloudy weather - as, by the way, in the presented picture, where there is no sun, and the butterfly's snout is clearly higher than the open flowers; in my pictures from the same places, Apollo on lupine is also only sleeping. He eats there on other plants; on lupine (which is full in the stations of the Kovsrovsky district) I personally have never seen an apollo feed , either because of the absolute futility of lupine for butterflies, or simply because of the abundance of normal native plants there at this time. By the way, the "wasteland" in the picture is not so lupine at all. There's plenty of normal food there, too.

But sleeping Apollo is very convenient to collect on lupine in the evenings. Of course, it would be interesting to see a picture of apollo specifically feeding on lupine...
Likes: 2

02.10.2012 22:56, rhopalocera.com

Above, I did not write about the age of the swamps, but of the Aquilonaris populations. Not the fact that they exist on them for the same 7000 years. The microclimate of the stations could have changed dramatically since then. And the "macroclimate" was different. That is, from a scientific point of view, we can talk about the habitation of aquilonaris in these swamps only during the period of their observation there (the last 40-50, well, 100 years), and the rest is just speculation.


Oh, what a rich ground for criticism in your message smile.gif))
There is no statute of limitations in evolutionary faunistics.

02.10.2012 23:11, Wild Yuri

He eats there on other plants; on lupine (which is full in the stations of the Kovsrovsky district) I personally have never seen an apollo feed , either because of the absolute futility of lupine for butterflies, or simply because of the abundance of normal native plants there at this time. By the way, the "wasteland" in the picture is not so lupine at all. There's plenty of normal food there, too.

What is normal food? The one that is normally used in this place. These can also be introduced species. I was not in the Vladimir region myself, I studied only Tambov apollos. I will try to find out from the author of the photo whether the apollo fed on lupine. I apologize for any premature conclusions.

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