Fluctuating asymmetry in insects

Try searching the Web for prof Vladimir Zakharov. In the 70s, under the guidance of prof Alexey Yablokov, he defended his diss. on this topic.

Zakharov, after all, is not mainly engaged in insects, but in vertebrates, although he has all sorts of things. I would say that the main goal already, as can be seen from the publications, is not so much fluctuating asymmetry, but rather the possibility of its application in the practical plane - bioindication. In my opinion, this is a dead direction.

See the article Brown NA, Wolpert L. 1990. The development of handedness in left/right
asymmetry. Development 109: 1-9. It is mainly devoted to directional asymmetry, but there are some references to insects, including possibly fluctuating asymmetry.

In my opinion, the asymmetries of insects are generally weak.

mmm... here is another review that can be useful for starting
Palmer AR From symmetry to asymmetry: phylogenetic patterns of asymmetry variation in animals and their evolutionary significance. PNAS 1996; 93:14279-14286.

and it's also in Science for all invertebrates with a large table, I won't give you an exact link right now - look in PubMed surname, asymmetry, magazine, years 2000-2006

You will find other links inside these links. I can send you my review, but it's based on directional asymmetries.

 
In my opinion, the asymmetries of insects are generally weak.

Not always. It is sufficient to recall the asymmetry of the mandibles of thrips, which is a sign of the whole order. However, this is again not a fluctuating asymmetry.

Zakharov, after all, is not mainly engaged in insects, but in vertebrates, although he has all sorts of things. I would say that the main goal already, as can be seen from the publications, is not so much fluctuating asymmetry, but rather the possibility of its application in the practical plane - bioindication. In my opinion, this is a dead direction.

See the article Brown NA, Wolpert L. 1990. The development of handedness in left/right
asymmetry. Development 109: 1-9. It is mainly devoted to directional asymmetry, but there are some references to insects, including possibly fluctuating asymmetry.

In my opinion, the asymmetries of insects are generally weak.

mmm... here is another review that can be useful for starting
Palmer AR From symmetry to asymmetry: phylogenetic patterns of asymmetry variation in animals and their evolutionary significance. PNAS 1996; 93:14279-14286.

and it's also in Science for all invertebrates with a large table, I won't give you an exact link right now - look in PubMed surname, asymmetry, magazine, years 2000-2006

You will find other links inside these links. I can send you my review, but it's based on directional asymmetries.

If it is not difficult, then your review would not refuse to read

can you explain for the clueless what a fluctuating one is?

can you explain for the clueless what a fluctuating one is?  

Fluctuating asymmetry (minor non-directional deviations from strict symmetry in the structure of various morphological structures that normally have bilateral symmetry) is used as a measure of stability in the development of living organisms to assess the quality (health) of the environment.

Did you explain it clearly?"

Uh-oh.. relatively clear Due to dopoimu
I don't know if this is the case, but I noticed that in some carabuses the right paw is located slightly lower (further from the pronotum).. Because of this, it turns out to be an unfriendly crackdown If anything.. Someday I will bring a photo

That's why I started this topic. I studied the fluctuating asymmetry in amphibians (Rana ridibunda), and the results were quite good. I used the Zakharov method. There was an idea to make it on insects, in particular on bronzes (golden). Caught 20 pieces (sample) - all spots on the elytra have a different pattern. Consequently, they also have an asymmetry in color. But how to explore it?

I have methods for amphibians and reptiles, but not for insects.

I attached the review, but from what you wrote, it became clear that it will not help you much - you have several other tasks.

But how, however, do people think in parallel - and at one time I wanted to deal with the variability of the drawing of bedbugs-soldiers. Because there are a lot of them and it's easy to collect them. Then he spat on them.

What does "pretty good results" mean? And why do you need to study the asymmetry of the pattern? What is the goal? Development instability? And what will be the control for comparison?

Oh, I don't believe in fluctuating asymmetry for some reason...

File/s:



06Landes_vol__Chapter4.pdf

size: 117.76 k
number of downloads: 11
20.07.2007-03.08.2007

probably where it was thicker and solitary moles were sitting

In fact, a colleague of mine measured the bones on the right and left sides of frogs. We chose a rather difficult procedure - to make 4 measurements of each measurement, then one measurement that differs by more than 5% from the rest, throw out, average the remaining three and take this as a true measurement. Poor zamayalsya, but it turned out that individual measurements of the same "walk" in the range of two to three times greater than the difference between the same true values on the right and left. Question: What do we study when we measure fluctuating skewness? Instability of development or degree of tremol of the hand and ruler, strabismus?

probably where it was thicker and solitary moles were sitting

In fact, a colleague of mine measured the bones on the right and left sides of frogs. We chose a rather difficult procedure - to make 4 measurements of each measurement, then one measurement that differs by more than 5% from the rest, throw out, average the remaining three and take this as a true measurement. Poor zamayalsya, but it turned out that individual measurements of the same "walk" in the range of two to three times greater than the difference between the same true values on the right and left. Question: What do we study when we measure fluctuating skewness? Instability of development or degree of tremol of the hand and ruler, strabismus?

On the living, though, measured? There are almost no frogs left."..

They were "at home", but not alive.

There are a lot of works on this topic for insects. And by venation (recall the textbook work of some rural biology teacher on dragonflies: it turned out that the wings taken from the food of wagtails (birds tear off the wings of dragonflies and leave them at the hunting site) are less symmetrical (in venation) than those of dragonflies of this species living in this area.
And by eye facets (works of our Ural geneticists (Marvin A.M.) on Drosophila). There are also works on drawings of elytra and pronotum of beetles and bedbugs (Batlutskaya and someone else). I can't give you any links right now, but I'll try to find them if necessary.

This post was edited by scarabee - 07/20/2007 14: 58

 
What does "pretty good results" mean? And why do you need to study the asymmetry of the pattern? What is the goal? Development instability? And what will be the control for comparison?

Thank you for the article, I'll read it at my leisure.

The asymmetry of the pattern was studied for geographical variability and stability of development under anthropogenic influence. The control was the population in the forest ("clean").

I would also like to look at insects, but I don't know how to do it.

You can't get acquainted with the work yet, since it's not finished yet (in the sense that it's not even done yet and it's not completely calculated, not to mention that you haven't even started writing) - all sorts of summer practices have begun and so on...

Gelashvili, D. B., Chuprunov, E. V., and Iudin, D. I., Structural and bioindication aspects of fluctuating asymmetry in bilaterally symmetric organisms, Zhur. General biology. - 2004. issue 5.

Gelashvili, D. B., Chuprunov, E. V., and Iudin, D. I., Structural and bioindication aspects of fluctuating asymmetry in bilaterally symmetric organisms, Zhur. General biology. - 2004. issue 5.

David Bezhanovich Gelashvili is the head of the Department of Ecology at our UNN biofactory, and it seems that as far as I know, there have been (and are being)conducted? works on the study of fluctuating asymmetry.

I found two methodological manuals on this topic, under the authorship of Zakharov.

Zakharov V. M., Baranov A. S., Borisov V. I., Valetsky A.V., Kryazheva N. G., Chistyakova E. K., Chubinishvili A. T.
Environmental health: assessment methodology.
http://herpeto-volga.apus.ru/works/Zacharov_et_al_2000.pdf

Zakharov V. M., Chubinishvili A. T.
Monitoring of environmental health in protected natural territories.
http://herpeto-volga.apus.ru/works/Zacharo...shvili_2001.pdf

The fluctuating asymmetry in wing venation was precisely studied. This is also the case with Zakharov.
In the book by Isaeva V. V., Karetin Yu. A., Chernyshev A.V., Shkuratov D. Yu. 2004. Fractals and chaos in biological morphogenesis. Vladivostok: "Dalnauka". 162 p. - there are data on fluctuating asymmetry in the location of tracheae in mayfly larvae (pp. 116-120).

Some of the most interesting works on this topic::

Here's more on similar asymmetry:
http://www.eje.cz/pdfarticles/1002/eje_102_2_195_Trotta.pdf
in Drosophila from the standpoint of stability of development paths.

A + symmetry-alas, they almost universally write with an error.

what about shellfish eaters?or am I off topic?

What do you mean, shellfish eaters?

By the way, gastropods experience torsion on themselves. This is another example of asymmetry in bilateral animals, although this again has nothing to do with fluctuating asymmetry.

This post was edited by Shoffer - 08/31/2007 12: 24

in the sense of zhuzheltsy-shellfish eaters...their mandibles are sharply asymmetrical....

What kind of ground beetles?

fly-km
such asymmetry is not fluctuation

I wrote my thesis on the fluctuating asymmetry of dragonfly wing venation. If you are interested, I will be happy to help with my publications, etc.

If you have any questions about FA in dragonflies, please contact odonata@mail.ru. I will be glad to help

I think the article will interest you. By the way, Tatiana, aren't you the author?


Fl_A.djvu

size: 270.91 k
number of downloads: 16
23.09.2007-07.10.2007

Yes, this is my post. Co-author and essentially supervisor - Alexey Anatolyevich Radaev from Nizhny Novgorod State University. Lobachevsky, who wrote a dissertation on the theory of wing venation in the honey bee. A very interesting work and a very interesting author who helped me in my work on the study of wing venation in dragonflies. I can introduce you personally, it will be interesting for you to talk.

Zakharov, after all, is not mainly engaged in insects, but in vertebrates, although he has all sorts of things. I would say that the main goal already, as can be seen from the publications, is not so much fluctuating asymmetry, but rather the possibility of its application in the practical plane - bioindication. In my opinion, this is a dead direction.

See the article Brown NA, Wolpert L. 1990. The development of handedness in left/right
asymmetry. Development 109: 1-9. It is mainly devoted to directional asymmetry, but there are some references to insects, including possibly fluctuating asymmetry.

In my opinion, the asymmetries of insects are generally weak.

mmm... here is another review that can be useful for starting
Palmer AR From symmetry to asymmetry: phylogenetic patterns of asymmetry variation in animals and their evolutionary significance. PNAS 1996; 93:14279-14286.

and it's also in Science for all invertebrates with a large table, I won't give you an exact link right now - look in PubMed surname, asymmetry, magazine, years 2000-2006

You will find other links inside these links. I can send you my review, but it's based on directional asymmetries.

please send your review on directional asymmetries to odonata@mail.ru, very interesting. I have my theses on the directed asymmetry of anomalies, may be of interest to you?

I do not open the file, if anyone knows how to open it, translate it to another format, please write, better in BOS

Actually, here is such a question.

FA of insect wings is a very sensitive indicator of developmental stability. But at the expense of other organs in the same insects, and especially in those insects that are practically inactive (ticks, for example), FA may not reflect the state of health of the environment and as Zakharov himself wrote, even in very polluted habitats, some animals may feel "fine" with normal FA and without abnormalities in development - here it is, adaptation. I would say that the narrower the norm of the reaction of signs, the more accurate the reflection of FA as an indicator of the stability of the body's development, although this answer will not be complete.

FA in some insects, namely FA of the wings (complex "soft" organs responsible for movement in the air, which in their long evolution have a diverse structure, very thin and "thoughtful") I consider it promising, especially since insects have a short development period, it is a pity that they are seasonal in nature.
In general, I think that not everything is FA(as an indicator of the state of the environment), which reflects the ratio of bilateral structures. There are a lot of factors that affect the FA indicators, so it is not always possible to give out wishful thinking, and in this case, the statement of one of the participants - "dead direction" - is very useful. FA has always been and remains a controversial issue, and all because very often the results are misinterpreted, initially incorrectly approach the essence of the issue, in the choice of the object, the studied features, etc.


I wish you success in your chosen topic. Personally, I have experienced a lot of good (mostly) and bad things by choosing this topic. All I can say is: very interesting!

From the literature, I can recommend the same Zakharov, Palmer and Strobeck, Wadington, Gelashvili.

Yes, this is my post. Co-author and essentially supervisor - Alexey Anatolyevich Radaev from Nizhny Novgorod State University. Lobachevsky

Department of Ecology

Department of Ecology

That's right! Surely you are well acquainted, maybe you also know Mokrousov, if you are an entomologist yourself?

That's right! Surely you are well acquainted, maybe you also know Mokrousov, if you are an entomologist yourself?

See you regularly