How do you like it?...

And I would name it, and make a description so that all my "love" is reflected. And then described pseudoputini, metaputini, Medvedia putinimorpha, etc.If I'm a criminal authority, I won't name it

You can find out: why? Do you want to demonstrate your political stance and wit? Who should evaluate it? Certainly not your colleagues, especially foreign ones, and not your political supporters and opponents - they are too far from zoology. If there is still such a need, write pamphlets and feuilletons to the newspapers, but why should this be promoted to science? And by the way, why do you think no magazine will publish the mentioned titles? Are they all so pro-government or are there other reasons?

I'm sorry, but when I find out that the once-outstanding specialist in freckles is now collecting bottles from garbage dumps, what's the point?! 10 years ago, some taxonomists sold newspapers and toilet paper....

I'm sorry, too, but why are you sure that an outstanding specialist in freckles will describe taxa for money? Confucius said: "Starving to death is a small event, but losing your morals is a big one." Don't you think anyone else can think that way? And that this was the reason why taxonomists sold toilet paper and newspapers, rather than collections and libraries?

Everywhere we had to deal with cases when the real author was forced to include in the authors of the type of head of the lab, a scientific supervisor who was not sleeping

One of ZIN's oldest employees at the British Museum stole types, "putting together" a magnificent collection. Very few people know about this (those who have worked with this collection), and for the youth of Zinoviev, it is very interesting.

Do you want to justify something with this? I mean, since I'm Zina's oldest employee... then I'm not allowed to do that, am I?

This post was edited by Tentator - 01/31/2008 10: 21

You can find out: why? Do you want to demonstrate your political stance and wit? Who should evaluate it?

(menacingly) Well, I, for example. In general, tentator, don't you think it's time to cool down?

Confucius said: "Starving to death is a small event, but losing your morals is a big one." Don't you think anyone else can think that way? And that this was the reason why taxonomists sold toilet paper and newspapers, rather than collections and libraries?

Rather, they were friends with the criminal code. And their own collections and libraries were still sold out, where can you go?

Do you want to justify something with this? I mean, if I'm an employee of the British Museum... then I'm not allowed to do that, am I?

It was about an employee of ZIN. Because you, apparently. and jumped up?

(menacingly) Well, I, for example. In general, tentator, don't you think it's time to cool down?

Are you going to view the Zoological Record specifically for this purpose? "Cool down" - does it mean to agree with you or leave the topic? The latter with great pleasure.

I already wrote that the topic has exhausted itself. But then Juglans came along and added his opinion, and thank you to him. I was actually offended by your excessive reaction to his posts. No more than that. And to cool down is to cool down.

Tentator
(I'm sorry, but I have problems with the quoting option)

And I would like to buy the name with pleasure. I'm not a taxonomist and I don't describe species, but if there is such a possibility (even for money), then why not? Naming an insect after someone you love - what's the big deal? By the way, I gave my wife a star for her birthday and I think it's very romantic

And in this dispute, I think it is important that a scientist who sells titles can also refuse to sell them if the title does not meet certain standards or does not correspond to common sense.

P.S. Tritankista isobaka-respect, I really liked it And it sounds beautiful.

Salix
No one will come! It's not about GIVING, it's about SELLING.

This young man bought the name of the star, and then gave a certificate about it to his girlfriend. He himself has nothing to do with astronomy

I would be happy if people understood that the Latin name of an organism is not stupid.

Golden words! It is not stupidity, but a serious matter, but this is a slightly different round of the topic.

Take your suggestion, for example. I know you were joking, but every joke has its share of humor. How many professional Russian entomologists know about this forum? Almost no one outside of Russia knows about it. In 10-20 years, even the participants will not remember it. And the generic name is quite telling. And people will wonder: what does molecular biology have to do with it, if it is absolutely unknown for this genus? And the epithet: all his colleagues know Mr. moderator as T. G. Oganesov and only some people know him as Bolivar. And there are at least two well-known Bolivars: one is a figure of the liberation movement in South America (in honor of him, apparently, the nickname was taken, judging by the avatar with the inscription "Libertator"), the other is the Spanish entomologist Ignacio Bolívar, after whom the genus Bolivaria was described. Again, people will think about what kind of Bolivar it is and what it has to do with some Berengian gastropod. Of course, the etymology is explained in the publication, but not everyone immediately has access to the original descriptions.

You see, today's wit of some taxonomists will not be understood by most scientists separated from it in everyday, mental, geographical or temporal terms. It turns out that this name is understandable for a small handful of people, and the rest of the majority shrugs their shoulders in bewilderment. And the same goes for the "salt of the earth" : do not perpetuate your dog or lover in the name of a taxon: the vast majority of people will not have any associations with this name. This will be a bad, as you said yourself, "bad" name. And the name should be international and up-to-date, i.e. understandable for everyone.

Tentator

There are no names for the taste or color. It warms me to think that someone in ...twelve years ' time will be wondering why I gave it such a name. There is one site where some names are analyzed (by the way, they also considered my case there – it's also nice!).
http://www.tmbl.gu.se/libdb/taxon/personetymol/petymol.html

Here's a snippet:
The coral name Balanophyllia bonaespei van der Horst, 1938 is not named for a person but for the the latin words: Bonae spei = of Good Hope (referring to Cape of Good Hope). (Dr. Riccardo Giannuzzi-Savelli kindly provided this information).
Charles Lucien Jules Laurent Bonaparte, (24 May - Paris) 1803-57 (29 July - Paris), Prince de Musignano (son of Napoleon I:s brother Lucien) and ornithologist / ichthyologist [Carolia Cantraine, 1835, Notacanthus bonapartei Risso, 1840, Sympterygia bonapartii Müller & Henle, 1841].
Lacking information about Bond in the W African fish name Ariomma bondi Fowler, 1930.

The last line is just an example of what information was searched for, but not found. And they'll find mine.

Of course, time will erase everything – including the nomenclature. I don't mind the fact that the present one is a pharmacist.

Why is "non-trivial "necessarily " bad"? Here, for example, is sigezbekia, which you mentioned: Have you ever wondered why Linnaeus named the genus after a man who wrote nasty things about it? And this is the whole story with "Cuculus ingratus"! There are a lot of simple names, but not many interesting ones. The most fun among scientists are mathematicians and physicists. So why are taxonomists so deliberately serious, even though they have so many reasons to smile? As for internationality, the nomenclature is full of names from different languages, sometimes very cute, like Faristenia or Komokia.

PS In a recent "Linnean collection", Andrey Oskolsky at the end of his article expressed gratitude to the LiveJournal user with the nickname kaktus77. This is not customary, and I know that some people have considered it "wrong", but I believe that this characterizes A. O. as an extraordinary person and not afraid to go beyond the conventional rules. If T. G. Oganesov chose the nickname Bolivar, then I do not see any stupidity or error in this. If we didn't complicate things and invent "masks" for ourselves, we wouldn't be posing as Juglans and Tentators.

 
There are no names for the taste or color. It warms me to think that someone in ...twelve years ' time will be wondering why I gave it such a name.

Does it really warm you to think that you are complicating someone's life and forcing scientists to do not research, but search for the origin of your names? The fragment that you gave should serve as an admonition that this should not be done, and not as a reinforcement of the belief in permissiveness. Will they find the etymology of your names? And if your descriptions are published in some shabby regional collection in Russian or Chinese? The nontrivial is not bad, but on the contrary wonderful. But it's like art: not everything new and original is art. Non-triviality can be inappropriate and rude, for example, a specific epithet - some obscene word (but how non-trivial! art has been making you feel very sick lately), or maybe elegant. I don't remember giving this example before. There is a genus in which there are two subgenera; in species of one subgenus, the upper part of the body is brown, and the front part of the pronotum is yellow, and in the second subgenus, the entire pronotum is yellow. The taxonomist who described the second subgenus named it Selenodera, meaning "lunospin" with the connotation that the pronotum resembles a month in the second subgenus. This already borders on poetry, and the word is beautiful and easy to remember. Yes, "Physicists joke" and mathematicians too, but have you ever met theorems named after your favorite dogs?

And who is talking about the stupidity or mistake of choosing a nickname? It is stupid and wrong to name something by ambiguous and unknown words. You can thank anyone, even an anonymous person, but you need to refer to a specific person. Tomorrow this cactus will delete its LiveJournal again and go fistula it then. And, by the way, about the masks-mine is much more transparent than yours.

Tentator

  
P.S. Tritankista isobaka-respect, I really liked it And it sounds beautiful.

Thank you, on occasion I will remind you of a long-standing dispute (on the other hand, I did not describe Gubanidur...).

Colleagues, don't you think that the discussion has become somewhat stuffy? Some posts don't feel like reading...

Dear Tentator, Have mercy! The dispute is interesting, but it is far from the "original source". The topic is really exhausted.

Of course I will have mercy!

  
Colleagues, don't you think that the discussion has become somewhat stuffy? Some posts don't feel like reading...

Well, what can you do if people admit that the topic has dried up, but continue to write?

Curiously, the new bacterium can't just be called that. As a specialist told me, in their main magazines, editors can reject the name because it is not consonant. It is also not unreasonable to name a new microbe after an unknown person.

Curiously, the new bacterium can't just be called that. As a specialist told me, in their main magazines, editors can reject the name because it is not consonant. It is also not unreasonable to name a new microbe after an unknown person.

This is not the case with bacteriologists. Try sending a "discordant" name to Zoosystematica Rossica

 
PS In a recent "Linnean collection", Andrey Oskolsky at the end of his article expressed gratitude to the LiveJournal user with the nickname kaktus77.

Let me tell you, he's not Andrey, but Alexey!

This is not the case with bacteriologists. Try sending a "discordant" name to Zoosystematica Rossica

Lekhko I will immediately make a reservation - this is about discordant names in the understanding of Tentatora Objectively discordant and simply incorrectly formed names also happen, but this is a separate story.

About bacteria-see here, for example:
http://ijs.sgmjournals.org/content/vol57/issue12/
The euphony of names derived from Chinese or African toponyms is for the amateur.

Bolivar
What are the problems! How do you like Molbiolia bolivari ? (by the way, it even sounds beautiful...). And the genus Bolivaria already exists. Salix was lucky - a whole family was named after him!

sounds great!

Well, I would buy not to perpetuate myself, but my favorite people

Take your suggestion, for example. I know you were joking, but every joke has its share of humor. How many professional Russian entomologists know about this forum? Almost no one outside of Russia knows about it. In 10-20 years, even the participants will not remember it. And the generic name is quite telling. And people will wonder: what does molecular biology have to do with it, if it is absolutely unknown for this genus?

Well, imagine that Juglans, RippeR or Morozzz, for example, in their old age will tell their students that there was such a forum and this very mollusk was named for this. And then the legend will pass from mouth to mouth, because we are now just as happy to tell stories about Linnaeus and Buffon. Why should we deprive our descendants of this?

Lekhko I will immediately make a reservation - this is about discordant names in the understanding of Tentatora Objectively discordant and simply incorrectly formed names also happen, but this is a separate story.

So I'm not the only one)

So they will have an extra reason to understand our generation. We are trying to understand our predecessors.

I think that there will be more than enough information left from our generation to understand it even without introducing it into the nomenclature.

I absolutely agree - most people are not interested in etymology, but those who are interested will find it.

If only you knew how many such names, the etymology of which has not yet been found.

Here, too, I wanted to say, but you were ahead of me :" What is good for a Russian, then death for a German." Euphony is a very, very subjective thing, especially among different peoples and cultures.

It is, of course, true, but for a zoologist the most euphonious languages are Latin and ancient Greek

So I'm not the only one)

No, you are alone. In my understanding, a discordant name is a hard-to-read, difficult-to-pronounce, or obscene name. All these characteristics, as already mentioned above, are very ambiguous, depending on the culture, nationality, native language of the author and many other points. Any name can be either euphonious or discordant, regardless of whether it was purchased or invented in a free creative impulse. There are many subtleties and pitfalls here. For example,the name of a taxon named after Przhevalsky is not consonant. But this does not mean that it is not necessary to name species in honor of people with discordant surnames. That is, sometimes you have to use discordant names, despite their discordance.

While the topic is being written, the topic is still alive. Don't bury it prematurely

I didn't write anything about the names of stars, but believe me, all these "purchases" are bullshit: you won't find minor planets with the names Vovan and Pupkin in any world catalog. You can give Epsilon Minor Leo your own name, but astronomers will never admit it. Only three "terrestrial" things-minerals, living organisms, and varieties of cultivated plants-can still be given names derived from the names of people, and this is recognized by experts from both Europe and Asia, if everything is designed according to the rules. The islands and capes are all named, and the craters on Mars are not named after mere mortals.

By the way, in honor of Lydia Andreyevna Zhiltsova (whom I mentioned in connection with the sad fate of taxonomists), the most unique beetle in Russia was named – Sikhotealinia zhiltzovae Lafer. She, being already a middle-aged woman, collected a single copy, and in such places and conditions that are extreme even for young men. Therefore, it is better to "pay" not with money, but with material-taxonomists will appreciate this. Most of the species are named after collectors. For this reason, the name of the humble teacher of the Irkutsk gymnasium Richard Karlovich Maak is known all over the world.

As for "Zoosystematics", it's not quite like that. The editorial board may recommend that the author change the bad name of a taxon, for example, if it combines Greek and Latin roots, but refuse altogether because of the bad name - it seems that there were no such cases. Yes, "discordance"is a very relative concept, even outside of philology. For example, a name that causes unpleasant associations. Personally, for me (and, I think, for many), all "bushii "and" putinii " are devoid of this notorious euphony.

Yes, it is perfectly normal practice to describe species in honor of the collector, i.e. the person who discovered this species, but due to a different specialization passed the material to the expert of the corresponding group for description. It would be strange not to do this, if there are no good reasons for it. And Maak, by the way, was quite famous for his travels and studies of the geography and ethnography of Siberia and the Far East. Well, there is no way to compare it with your favorite great-uncle, great-niece or her dog.

As for "Zoosystematics", it's not quite like that. The editorial board may recommend that the author change the bad name of a taxon, for example, if it combines Greek and Latin roots, but refuse altogether because of the bad name - it seems that there were no such cases.

I hope that recommending it doesn't mean forcing it.

Genus Irtugovia Perestenko, 1994

"We name the new genus after Pavel Irtyugo, a young algologist who died on a 1972 expedition near the Kuril Islands" (Perestenko, 1994).

This seems to me to be a good example of how etymology should be explained. We must also remember that many people dig into their genealogy and may stumble upon names given in honor of relatives. A trifle, but nice. Many people lack a sense of their own"significance".