How to catch legally?

Yes, we are all "poachers" in the understanding of our state, but we do not destroy nature in any way, but on the contrary, we look after it for all entomologists, guys . It is much more ruined by these so-called "pimps". Guys, let's save the entomofauna of our country for posterity!!!

This post was edited by vasiliy-feoktistov - 18.04.2010 09: 37

Personally, I fish in nature reserves: Teberdinsky, Rostovsky, etc. I get permission from a friend of the management of nature reserves, just come to the office and get a pass with permission to collect collection material for the entire season. And in this situation, I don't give a damn about the bureaucrats who supposedly protect nature and are stupid to the point of insanity.

Wild Yuri, you have touched on a very interesting topic.

bora, do you happen to know who is currently working as an entomologist on the staff of the Teberdinsky Nature Reserve?

No, I'm dealing with chief forester Alexey Bok. He told me, however, about some problems that entomologists had, like someone quit and took their collections with them. I don't know when that was.

This post was edited by bora - 17.04.2010 18: 42

In general, this issue was raised repeatedly and its discussion did not lead to anything good. Everything went down to " dog barking...".

.. the collections will be assigned a registration number, and every year I will have to provide a report of the collection turnover (what has gone and arrived) to some of their divisions, with all the papers that the arrived insects were caught by the sender legally (new examination?).

I can't help but be sarcastic (zlopastnyi I, nick obliges): does Mr. rhopalocera, who was going to legalize his collection perfectly, know about this?

In general, this issue was raised repeatedly and its discussion did not lead to anything good.
I can't help but be sarcastic (zlopastnyi I, nick obliges): does Mr. rhopalocera, who was going to legalize his collection perfectly well, know about this?

I just want to know: did someone else get permissions somewhere and what it looked like, and was it possible to register the collection? And how to do it abroad, if you have experience. What foresters and reserve staff allow is illegal (just good people, perhaps). Permits are issued by territorial bodies: the Committee of Natural Resources, and more recently - inspections for the protection of wildlife objects (they explained to me recently in the Khabarovsk Territory).
I would like to get more information on the topic in order to better communicate with officials, and maybe somehow "run over" them (reporting on the experience of others) to simplify registration next time.

This post was edited by Wild Yuri - 17.04.2010 21: 27

Personally, I fish in nature reserves: Teberdinsky, Rostovsky, etc. I get permission from a friend of the management of nature reserves, just come to the office and get a pass with permission to collect collection material for the entire season. And in this situation, I don't give a damn about the bureaucrats who supposedly protect nature and are stupid to the point of insanity.

Well, there are quite smart people there (at least no more stupid than we are), but they just do their job following the existing Russian and local legislation. You can, of course, spit on them, but the hunt for collectors is growing. In Primorye-the Tiger inspection, in Yakutia-the environmental OMON, in other regions-some of their own oprichniki. A friend had problems in Primorye last year and was almost taken away in handcuffs from the forest after seeing a net... We need to get legalized somehow, but not through the "7 circles of hell". I would like to know if anyone managed to get a permit from the CPR (Nature Supervision, Inspectorate for the protection of wildlife objects...) without the ordeal and what the procedure looked like.

PS And about permissions from nature reserves-see the previous comment.

This post was edited by Wild Yuri - 17.04.2010 23: 44

I would like to get more information on the topic in order to better communicate with officials, and maybe somehow"run over" them

The most competent communication is in writing. First, "please explain the procedure for issuing permits" and then, based on the explanations, "please issue".

The collection has not yet been registered. Scribbling prospects don't frighten me (I'm the one who's spiteful...) - the amount of correspondence passing through me from abroad will easily allow me to send as many "incoming" copies as I want without any permissions. The order of their acquisition should not concern environmental structures (only the tax service, and it does not care about collections). So I don't see any big obstacles in maintaining an officially registered collection. The only thing that bothers is the responsibility to the state for its safety (neighbors from above will flood - and the bb collection...).

As for permissions, I get them where I can. Mostly, of course, I collect without permission. But in reserve, there is always a piece of paper with a certain content, with the seal and signature of one of the departments of a reputable university, which almost completely replaces the permit for the degree of impact on environmental structures in Russia.

The collection has not yet been registered. Scribbling prospects don't frighten me (I'm the one who's spiteful...) - the amount of correspondence passing through me from abroad will easily allow me to send as many "incoming" copies as I want without any permissions. The order of their acquisition should not concern environmental structures (only the tax service, and it does not care about collections). So I don't see any big obstacles in maintaining an officially registered collection. The only thing that bothers is the responsibility to the state for its safety (neighbors from above will flood - and the bb collection...).

As for permissions, I get them where I can. Mostly, of course, I collect without permission. But in reserve, there is always a piece of paper with a certain content, with the seal and signature of one of the departments of a reputable university, which almost completely replaces the permit for the degree of impact on environmental structures in Russia.

They do not replace the papers from the departments of the CPR permits. You can go to them and ask them! And the inspection "Tiger" in Primorye requires the permission of the CRC! As for registering a collection, there is a certain procedure, and the initial stage is in the same CRC. Because they need to provide papers on the origin of the material: a capture permit or a document on the purchase of copies from another person (organization), in free form, with the signature (seal) of this person and a copy of the capture permit from the same person. Having established the legal origin of the material, they begin the process of registering the collection (collection)... I don't know what it looks like. I would like to find out from knowledgeable people... And how much to pay.

This post was edited by Wild Yuri - 17.04.2010 23: 39

A friend from the BPI in Vladivostok told how he was detained and expelled from the reserve.… In his hands, he had a "permit" to collect insects (of course, for scientific purposes, from his organization) and to stay in a protected area. The conservationists asked him the following question: "You have the right to collect and the right to stay in the reserve. Do you have a permit TO COLLECT IN THE RESERVE ITSELF?? "(I remembered the famous humorous scene with Pan Himalaysky...)

And he had to catch at the fence, from its outside.

This post was edited by Aaata - 18.04.2010 00: 26

A friend from the BPI in Vladivostok told how he was detained and expelled from the reserve.… In his hands, he had a "permit" to collect insects (of course, for scientific purposes, from his organization) and to stay in a protected area. The conservationists asked him the following question: "You have the right to collect and the right to stay in the reserve. Do you have a permit TO COLLECT IN THE RESERVE ITSELF?? "(I remembered the famous humorous scene with Pan Himalaysky...)

And he had to catch at the fence, from its outside.

He probably only had a residence permit... And only Moscow seems to give papers for trapping in nature reserves? I don't understand much about their rules and chain of command. It is necessary to study!

I didn't have any special problems with collecting materials for scientific purposes. The university gives me a business trip to a particular reserve, and already on the basis of travel documents in the reserve, I get a pass and permission signed by the director to collect material and stay in the protected area. Some people ask for lists of collected species and a report on the work done based on the results of the collection, while others do not ask for anything. I haven't encountered any environmental patrols or anything like that. The management of the reserve actually issues a pass for this case, and these patrols are from among the reserve employees. There were problems just outside the protected areas... If the reserves are more or less calm from sudden encounters, then outside its borders there is a chance to "talk" with the local population. And then try to prove to some drunken native tractor driver that you are here for good purposes in the name of science...

This post was edited by Morfey - 18.04.2010 09: 10

They do not replace the papers from the departments of the CPR permits. You can go to them and ask them! And the inspection "Tiger" in Primorye requires the permission of the CRC! As for registering a collection, there is a certain procedure, and the initial stage is in the same CRC. Because they need to provide papers on the origin of the material: a capture permit or a document on the purchase of copies from another person (organization), in free form, with the signature (seal) of this person and a copy of the capture permit from the same person. Having established the legal origin of the material, they begin the process of registering the collection (collection)... I don't know what it looks like. I would like to find out from knowledgeable people... And how much to pay.

Some of them replace it .

I had a chance to work for a year in a forestry enterprise in the Khabarovsk Territory and met a paper from the ministry with prices for red book species for catching them it was in 1989 apollo cost 5 rubles bird eggs of some 5-20 the list was extensive .Just who will do it . there is a production plan there are statistics and other reporting

A friend from the BPI in Vladivostok told how he was detained and expelled from the reserve.… In his hands, he had a "permit" to collect insects (of course, for scientific purposes, from his organization) and to stay in a protected area. The conservationists asked him the following question: "You have the right to collect and the right to stay in the reserve. Do you have a permit TO COLLECT IN THE RESERVE ITSELF?? "(I remembered the famous humorous scene with Pan Himalaysky...)

And he had to catch at the fence, from its outside.

So they wanted to checkmate him. help (Sergeant Ivanov, three children...) or "the characters did not agree"? Often with such characters you need to talk respectfully, offer to drink a glass of tea, etc., etc. And if you start to arise abruptly, then no piece of paper will help. For the goblin's soul longs for self-affirmation: "I'm the boss here, and you're shit-if I want to, I'll allow it, but if I don't want to, I don't care about any piece of paper."

A friend from the BPI in Vladivostok told how he was detained and expelled from the reserve.… In his hands, he had a "permit" to collect insects (of course, for scientific purposes, from his organization) and to stay in a protected area. The conservationists asked him the following question: "You have the right to collect and the right to stay in the reserve. Do you have a permit TO COLLECT IN THE RESERVE ITSELF?? "(I remembered the famous humorous scene with Pan Himalaysky...)

And he had to catch at the fence, from its outside.

I should note that the paper from the department should not be given to people in uniform who caught you from the nets in the reserve, but to the management of this very reserve. And already the directorate, based on a piece of paper from the department, must indicate permission to collect material in the pass.
And so it turns out that I took a piece of paper from the department and let's catch it. We should not forget that universities and research institutes are one thing, but nature reserves are another. And the permission of some cannot prescribe to others. The reserve also has its own specifics, which include: recreation areas; zones of ecological trails, where excursions are conducted: and, of course, an absolutely protected area, where a strict regime is observed and visits to it are possible in exceptional cases-this is the core of the reserve...
The department can not write a paper to visit a specific area, the department must write a paper with a request to allow the collection, and the directorate will indicate specifically the zone, squares, permission to collect, etc., up to the time when which square can be visited.

Any professional entomologist and many amateurs can visit any reserve on the territory of the Globe, having received papers for this. It's not easy, but it's possible. In Russia, there are no problems at all. I think that many nature reserves would be happy to welcome someone from visitors. We have dozens of specialists working in Altai and Tigiretsky districts every year.
In most cases, if you are not a protected area, you don't need to bother

In general, the people who work in nature reserves are mostly (according to my observations) decent people. And scientists are treated well. But if they happen to see you packing thousands of carabuses or papilionids, it will be difficult to understand, and in some cases not understood. And you can understand them in this misunderstanding. Sorry for the pun

Heh.. The last time a permit for collecting insects in the BPI was issued about 6 years ago, through the efforts of the late V. N. Kuznetsov. Since then, no one wants to do this thankless task. A couple of years ago, we tried to issue papers for the export of entomological material (galls with cinipids) for foreigners from Vladivostok and had to try to issue a collection permit (no collection permit - no export permit). They told us that at some point the procedure for issuing permits has changed, but all the extensions in this regard have not yet arrived, so we will not give permission until they are suitable. Perhaps they are still suitable
For all the time of collecting such a piece of paper helped only once, when returning environmental officials from some meeting from Andreevka caught our Japanese, who was collecting tribute in a roadside pond.
I think that permits are necessary, but their issuance should be simplified, for example, in the form of collection licenses. Most collectors then use this material for commercial purposes...

Heh.. The last time a permit for collecting insects in the BPI was issued about 6 years ago, through the efforts of the late V. N. Kuznetsov. Since then, no one wants to do this thankless task. A couple of years ago, we tried to issue papers for the export of entomological material (galls with cinipids) for foreigners from Vladivostok and had to try to issue a collection permit (no collection permit - no export permit). They told us that at some point the procedure for issuing permits has changed, but all the extensions in this regard have not yet arrived, so we will not give permission until they are suitable. Perhaps they are still suitable
For all the time of collecting such a piece of paper helped only once, when returning environmental officials from some meeting from Andreevka caught our Japanese, who was collecting tribute in a roadside pond.
I think that permits are necessary, but their issuance should be simplified, for example, in the form of collection licenses. Most collectors then use this material for commercial purposes...

I totally agree! After all, they give licenses for shooting ducks and bears! Why are insects a special substance? By the way, why... A question that I've been thinking about for years and can't find a rational explanation for!

In general, the people who work in nature reserves are mostly (according to my observations) decent people. And scientists are treated well. But if they happen to see you packing thousands of carabuses or papilionids, it will be difficult to understand, and in some cases not understood. And you can understand them in this misunderstanding. Sorry for the pun

Yes, here we are not talking about an emotional attitude (how much to catch, what to eat...), but a legislative one. What it looks like in civilized countries and in our country. Getting a catch permit. Like in Israel, for example? Germany? Who knows?
I know how it is in the US. There are protected species at the state and state levels. You can't catch them. The rest of you are welcome. At least a million! In addition to the territory of national parks and nature reserves, as well as private land (where you can negotiate with the owner). In my opinion, nothing is more reasonable and simpler than this system! We have atavisms of serfdom:
- Did you decide to fuck the sovereign's beetles, serf? Go to the king, fall to the waist... Maybe he'll let you,
if he's kind...

  
I know how it is in the US. There are protected species at the state and state levels. You can't catch them. The rest of you are welcome. At least a million! In addition to the territory of national parks and nature reserves, as well as private land (where you can negotiate with the owner). In my opinion, nothing is more reasonable and simpler than this system!

And how will they react to a foreigner waving a net on federal lands? What is the situation with material removal?

And how will they react to a foreigner waving a net on federal lands? What is the situation with material removal?

Exporting is difficult everywhere, especially if you show it

Take a few situations and compare them.
1) An amateur angler catches fish for flies, bloodworms, locusts, earthworms. The bait is obtained in nature.
2) A biologist who is not a taxonomist (for example, a physiologist or ecologist) collects insects in nature for some experiments, but does not collect a collection.
3) A taxonomist collects insects and creates a collection for scientific purposes.
4) An amateur collector collects insects in nature for a collection just for fun.
5) The collector-merchant collects insects in nature and sells them.

Which of these five should buy a license to collect invertebrates in nature, and who should not? And if any of them shouldn't, then why?

Take a few situations and compare them.
1) An amateur angler catches fish for flies, bloodworms, locusts, earthworms. The bait is obtained in nature.
2) A biologist who is not a taxonomist (for example, a physiologist or ecologist) collects insects in nature for some experiments, but does not collect a collection.
3) A taxonomist collects insects and creates a collection for scientific purposes.
4) An amateur collector collects insects in nature for a collection just for fun.
5) The collector-merchant collects insects in nature and sells them.

Which of these five should buy a license to collect invertebrates in nature, and who should not? And if any of them shouldn't, then why?

Well, I don't agree with the first one. This is not a fisherman. the fisherman catches on another tackle
Footnote-what catches and sells number 5 will be bought by numbers 3 and 4, and now often 2, for example, by geneticists.

Take a few situations and compare them.
1) An amateur angler catches fish for flies, bloodworms, locusts, earthworms. The bait is obtained in nature.
2) A biologist who is not a taxonomist (for example, a physiologist or ecologist) collects insects in nature for some experiments, but does not collect a collection.
3) A taxonomist collects insects and creates a collection for scientific purposes.
4) An amateur collector collects insects in nature for a collection just for fun.
5) The collector-merchant collects insects in nature and sells them.

Which of these five should buy a license to collect invertebrates in nature, and who should not? And if any of them shouldn't, then why?

The person who is caught by the authorized bodies will pay for everything

"...it's not scary to swear, but it's scary to get caught!" Reinecke Lis.

 
I think that permits are necessary, but their issuance should be simplified, for example, in the form of collection licenses. Most collectors then use this material for commercial purposes...

It would be possible to offer entomological merchants to register an individual entrepreneur (Individual enterprise) with the purchase of a patent for this type of activity.
Paid, catch and trade, and all within the law!
Let the State Duma of Primorsky Krai include butterfly fishing in the list of activities subject to patenting.

Oh, it's one thing that the merchants escaped thanks to the "bumazhki". Another thing-they tied up a bespectacled man picking at a cow cake with a stick. And they demanded "the highest permission". Yes, here one pralno noticed-who polovchee, he "slipped"

It would be possible to offer entomological merchants to register an individual entrepreneur (Individual enterprise) with the purchase of a patent for this type of activity.
Paid, catch and trade, and all within the law!
Let the State Duma of Primorsky Krai include butterfly fishing in the list of activities subject to patenting.

Not patenting , but licensing ))) .

And tax your enemies! For imputed income! Or as it is called, when you are required to pay tax based on the amount that you will earn, in the opinion of an authorized person.

Not patenting , but licensing ))).

Patenting - a reservation for Froid))) In everyone lives an adversary)))

The fact is that the vast majority of officials directly involved in the development and adoption of regulatory acts are simply incompetent. It is in matters that are the subject of regulation of the adopted acts. Also, in the vast majority of cases, the adoption of any regulatory document does not mean that developers clearly understand the mechanism for implementing everything that they have "banned" or "allowed" or "defined". And this applies to absolutely any area. Simply put, a blonde girl after the institute, at whose mercy the head is given to analyze the draft document and check for compliance with existing regulatory acts, when she finds "incomprehensible", does not turn to specialists or special literature for explanations, but at best to Wikipedia. That's why we have what we have. It's all practice. So, dear Wild Yuri, don't bother with this question. At least in relation to the territory of the former USSR.

I will never forget the expressions on the faces of the village drunks who were bored at noon at the village store and watched me catch E. ausonia volgensis Kr right on the main street of the village.!! At first, they neighed like horses, poking their finger in the wake of a passing (any) butterfly and teased me that I was shitty at running after them. Tired, I sat down with them on a log for a smoke. They started asking - what the fuck do I need evonta moth for!?? For science (this species in those days, except for me, no one found in our area at all - as well as in neighboring ones) - they didn't care, and then I remembered how much this butterfly costs at the commercial price ($2), so I told them. The expressions on their faces changed dramatically when they realized that only 2 more such "moths" are equal to the cost of a bottle of chita and I was already looked at as a crook who got into their pocket...

In "Crocodile" about 45 years ago, an anecdote was published (maybe I already told it, I don't remember). Tourists in the middle of the forest, looking around for a suitable place to bivouac, stumble upon a forester in uniform and ask him if it is possible to build bonfires here. He replies that it is strictly forbidden. They ask-and where are there so many firebrands lying around? And this, says the forester, was left by those who did not ask me if it was possible to build bonfires here...

This post was edited by A. J. Elez - 24.04.2010 02: 13

I will never forget the expressions on the faces of the village drunks who were bored at noon at the village store and watched me catch E. ausonia volgensis Kr right on the main street of the village.!! At first, they neighed like horses, poking their finger in the wake of a passing (any) butterfly and teased me that I was shitty at running after them. Tired, I sat down with them on a log for a smoke. They started asking - what the fuck do I need evonta moth for!?? For science (this species in those days, except for me, no one found in our area at all - as well as in neighboring ones) - they didn't care, and then I remembered how much this butterfly costs at the commercial price ($2), so I told them. The expressions on their faces changed dramatically when they realized that only 2 more such "moths" are equal to the cost of a bottle of chita and I was already looked at as a crook who got into their pocket...

I don't like fishing in towns and villages. I remember a Japanese man who was visiting me, took a net out of his pocket in the middle of the city - some kind of cleverly folding one-and let's chase butterflies along the avenue. I was uncomfortable...
Then a week later, he started photographing aborigines drunk in smoke in Ulagan, who were half-asleep in the dust at the store -I somehow kicked him into the UAZ, because they began to slowly wake up, showing a positive phototaxis to the flash.
So I didn't let the Japanese take pictures. The despot!

 
So, dear Wild Yuri, don't bother with this question. At least in relation to the territory of the former USSR.

I don't really bother, but it's still unpleasant to be a lawbreaker and a poacher. I still want to be legal. Maybe now everything has somehow become simpler , in the light of the "new trend" towards de-bureaucratization of the country... If not, then write to the officials and offer to simplify it! This is done by the Department of Optimization of Environmental Management Systems (Moscow). They "optimize" the state budget funds for the development of various solutions in the field of environmental management, and they may even like the new offer!
However, we do not accept proposals for osimization from the common people - only from deputies, ministers and other "dignitaries". Does anyone know entomologists-deputies? Send the address!

This post was edited by Wild Yuri - 24.04.2010 00: 08

Shokhin, they say, collects beetles... Who knows?