Stop the "American"...

American maple-Acer negundo this is the main tree species that foresters rely on afforesting ravines-eroding slopes and so they do for about 100 years this is a classic

It is better to bring a couple of hundred species of beautiful barbels ^___^

As a provocateur, you are suggesting a very dangerous thing. I hope it's just a misunderstanding... This way, without research, you can create an even bigger problem for Russia.

http://www.ecosystema.ru/08nature/trees/43.htm

This species has been known in Russia since the second half of the XVIII century, when experiments on growing it from seeds began in the botanical gardens of St. Petersburg and Moscow. The first attempts to introduce the plant were unsuccessful; the seedlings died out, as they were grown from seeds obtained from plants from the southern part of their natural range in North America. Only in the 19th century was it possible to breed the ash-leaved maple from seeds obtained this time from Canada.

As a provocateur, you are suggesting a very dangerous thing. I hope it's just a misunderstanding... This way, without research, you can create an even bigger problem for Russia.

I agree ! After all, the sad experience with the Colorado potato beetle is known: first, it was on potatoes, but now I often find it in the forest (where there were no potatoes nearby). How does he get there, what does he eat?

Rabbits and Australia. Meaning rabbits spawned Astralia. Then foxes were brought in to eat rabbits. But they liked the Australian animals better. Not a one-time delivery to the consumer of ambrosia: juices, leaf beet. So far, it hasn't led to anything. Prickly pear is one of the few successful examples.
And on the trees of the invaders. probably every region has its own horror stories. We have more problems with white acacia and ailanthus.

And another example of pisces: http://bio.1september.ru/articlef.php?ID=200404001

I wrote a little expressively, because there was a lot of beer last night (in pubs, big ideas are always born )... but I do not give up the call. American maple - war! Plan Barbarossa, with a landing of beetles, fireflies, moths of the North American continent. I emphasize-monophages, so as not to eat something superfluous. Who goes to America (Canada)? Write!

As a provocateur, you are suggesting a very dangerous thing. I hope it's just a misunderstanding... This way, without research, you can create an even bigger problem for Russia.

I'm a professional biologist. I am supported by other biologists, with whom I have been discussing the topic for five years. Just yesterday I remembered last season, visiting the places of my childhood, where there were wonderful copses and steep gullies-now COMPLETELY OVERGROWN WITH American maple. You come to me in Lipetsk, I'll show you. We need to do something. Let's discuss!

This post was edited by Wild Yuri - 18.04.2010 12: 59

Rabbits and Australia. Meaning rabbits spawned Astralia. Then foxes were brought in to eat rabbits. But they liked the Australian animals better. Not a one-time delivery to the consumer of ambrosia: juices, leaf beet. So far, it hasn't led to anything. Prickly pear is one of the few successful examples.
And on the trees of the invaders. probably every region has its own horror stories. We have more problems with white acacia and ailanthus.

Acacia and ailanthus did not suppress wild tracts on such a scale, as I observe in the Lipetsk, Voronezh, Volgograd regions and other places in Russia. American maple has moved to a new quality of offensive-total "fire". And nothing will stop him. Except for some of the objects of our passion...

I'm a professional biologist. I am supported by other biologists, with whom I have been discussing the topic for five years. Just yesterday I remembered last season, visiting the places of my childhood, where there were wonderful copses and steep gullies-now COMPLETELY OVERGROWN WITH American maple. You come to me in Lipetsk, I'll show you. We need to do something. Let's discuss!

I also condemn the introduction of species that are not peculiar to the region in which they are introduced quite often can have rather disastrous consequences.

Ha, and where is the guarantee that their monophagy is not forced? They ate a lot of negundyaya there, but how will they spread to something else? As for the Altai and Kazakhstan, this maple was deliberately planted in protective forest plantations - it grows quickly...

I agree ! After all, the sad experience with the Colorado potato beetle is known: first, it was on potatoes, but now I often find it in the forest (where there were no potatoes nearby). How does he get there, what does he eat?

The Colorado potato beetle eats henbane, nightshade, and other solanaceae. However, they did not decrease in nature at all! I understand that the introduction of even a monophage is somewhat dangerous. But any other action is just as dangerous. And even more - inaction in certain situations when you can no longer sit idly by!

Ha, and where is the guarantee that their monophagy is not forced? They ate a lot of negundyaya there, but how will they spread to something else? As for the Altai and Kazakhstan, this maple was deliberately planted in protective forest plantations - it grows quickly...

And we have deliberately planted. I spoke about the death of Russian landscapes and our favorite places of "wild collecting". Read my first email.

American maple-Acer negundo is the main tree species that foresters rely on foresting ravines-eroding slopes and so they have been doing for about 100 years. This is a classic

This is a Khrushchev classic. We have long entered a new era - saving landscapes, tiny islands of wildlife. Killed in many places by American maple!

We're not for him at all. It just doesn't get any worse. How many successful examples of such a struggle do you know? And unsuccessful ones...
And about the death of Russian landscapes-there is a more burning example. Sosnovsky's hogweed. They say that in the Middle Zone, many of the rivers along the banks have become so overgrown that it is impossible to approach them. So after all, he, the infection, is also dangerous to humans

not for the American, but against ILL-CONCEIVED and very dangerous appeals. By the way, those who question your professional level as a biologist, I'm sorry... The introduction of new species into the world's fauna is now being approached with MUCH greater concern and MUCH more preliminary research. The biggest problem is that we will not be conducting these expensive studies (selection of species and populations, testing...). It would be easier to see if this is a problem in Europe, maybe they have experience...

If the question is about protecting some areas of nature, then forest management measures are safer here - cutting down, etc.

But it seems to me that in many cases in cities and forest belts this species is not bad, especially given the fact that oaks and elms are dying (and this will only get worse).

No, not all of them, I'm for the beautiful sawyers devouring maple

And about the death of Russian landscapes-there is a more burning example. Sosnovsky's hogweed. They say that in the Middle Zone, many of the rivers along the banks have become so overgrown that it is impossible to approach them. So after all, he, the infection, is also dangerous to humans

We have a lot of it everywhere. My younger brother once made a pipe out of it and blew it foolishly. Erysipelas then was: "I won't look without tears" is covered in blisters (chemical burn).

American maple-Acer negundo is the main tree species that foresters rely on foresting ravines-eroding slopes and so they have been doing for about 100 years. This is a classic

Foresters of protective belts are a separate caste, which only needs an increase in biomass, but I'm talking about the preservation of endangered, wild nature. American maple is already attacking nature reserves. The unique steppe reserve Galichya Gora in the Lipetsk region is overgrown with American maple (distributed, by the way, from neighboring forest belts). Employees of the reserve tried to cut it down, uproot it... Where there! This "thing" grows even thicker from their remaining roots!

I also don't understand why some entomologists sided with the aggressor. After all, there are no objects of our hunting on this maple tree! Absolute zero! Which will eventually become all our forests and tracts occupied by the "American" - what will we catch, collectors?

This post was edited by Wild Yuri - 18.04.2010 18: 20

not for the American, but against ILL-CONCEIVED and very dangerous appeals. By the way, those who question your professional level as a biologist, I'm sorry... The introduction of new species into the world's fauna is now being approached with MUCH greater concern and MUCH more preliminary research. The biggest problem is that we will not be conducting these expensive studies (selection of species and populations, testing...). It would be easier to see if this is a problem in Europe, maybe they have experience...

If the question is about protecting some areas of nature, then forest management measures are safer here - cutting down, etc.

But it seems to me that in many cases in cities and forest belts this species is not bad, especially given the fact that oaks and elms are dying (and this will only get worse).

In the city of Lipetsk, he destroyed the landscape of Kamenny Log, he occupied half of the Galichya Gora Nature Reserve, many magnificent forest-steppe gullies of southern Russia. You come to my house sometime and I'll show you all this horror.
And do you think the introduction of the same American maple (an alien species) and masses of other plants and animals in the USSR and Russia was carried out deliberately? It was necessary for the national economy - that's all!
I am ready to discuss the topic of sound and scientifically verified introductions. Waiting for suggestions. But the problem I mentioned needs to be solved somehow. Urgently!

This post was edited by Wild Yuri - 18.04.2010 18: 28

 
I also don't understand why some entomologists sided with the aggressor. After all, there are no objects of our hunting on this maple tree! Absolute zero! Which will eventually become all our forests and tracts occupied by the "American" - what will we catch, collectors?

what strange terminology and rhetoric?! what does corporate interests have to do with it?! the problem is that you can easily introduce another problem to one problem! It is very irresponsible to solve problems with such dangerous methods.

Here's about the same thing Acer negundo. And about the pest a little bit.

Wild Yuri, I'm sorry, but you are trolling "pure water" . Despite the fact that I myself (forgive God) am a professional biologist, this does not prevent me from being a provocateur myself , these are not antitheses. In Europe, according to my nerd friends, the Acer negundo problem is "in full growth". Go to the Internet - there is . As a helping hand for a drowning person, I recommend that you immediately contact the central Russian quarantine service - let them take the American white butterfly out from under their "roof", let them stop processing it and drive it to the next wave. She eats American maple just the way you want .

I also don't understand why some entomologists sided with the aggressor

Painfully similar to a series of speeches in the topic of merchants and personal preferences .

There is no more energy to look at the offensive of the green Yankee (American maple, Acer negundo) on the native Russian landscapes. I was in the stunning beauty of the forest-steppe Danilovskaya gully, in the Volgograd region. The oak forest bordering it has sprouted through American maple, is withering and fading. Throwing out myriads of lionfish, he launched an offensive on the steppe, and in 10 years the beam promises to turn into an "American maple forest". I was in the foothills of the Altai Mountains: the maple tree has occupied all the forest belts and is crawling everywhere on the forests. Overgrown with them completely picturesque once Stone log, with limestone exits, in his native Lipetsk...

To get rid of the maple tree-there is one way - to spend a lot of money on its destruction by mechanical means, as biologically dangerous, history can repeat itself. In Estonia, the hogweed is practically bred and managed to get rid of it by mechanical means-systematic destruction of plantings, prevention of flowering, even on land that is not cultivated or owned by anyone; but still, it sometimes comes out at the edge of the field, 1-2 plants, but no more. The Estonians spent a lot of effort on its removal.

On the other hand, this is the normal course of evolution, in which the person who brought these species took part. The seeds of this maple tree in Russia could get into the bird's goiter and spread themselves, but they were brought by humans. I think that this species should be destroyed only where it can cause harm - to push out other valuable breeds or reduce the species. And so this is the flora of the Russian Federation.

Many people think that introduction is terrible, but on the other hand, plants and animals spread across the Earth without human participation, especially when there was only one continent a few billion years ago. Now there are several continents, but man has appeared, and did not nature specifically create man for the spread of plants and animals on Earth? And, perhaps, this is only the only function of a person that nature has assigned to him???... And then one day it will destroy a person.

Canadian entomologists have a motto: Know your insekt. This is a warning before introducing insects to destroy other species. Introduction is good - it is the preservation of bio-diversity. But the introduction is also used for economic activities, since the productivity of biological species is low, people create hybrids and varieties, introduce introduced plants to increase productivity in conditions of limited resources.

A friend who works at the BPI is even a more ardent supporter of introduction, and someone says-not biologists... That's what he told me when we were traveling with him on the train...
- Introduction in some regions is very useful, and it should be expanded! (Buddy)
"Like what?" (I)
- Well, in the European part of Russia there is a very depleted biota - it has not regained its diversity after the Ice Age. Therefore, the addition of American maple to the forests is good, Mongolian oak (also planted in some places - ed.) is excellent, Amur velvet (it is also being introduced - ed.) is wonderful, and so on. Biotic diversity in central Russia should potentially be one and a half to two times greater. And it is stupid to wait for nature to increase it - this is another five thousand years. We must speed up the process!
- But... american maple...
"Don't continue. Yes, pret is everywhere and stifles natural coenoses, but what prevents them from introducing their local regulators - leaf beetles, for example? Also, by the way, replenishment and decoration of the biota!
"But they can... switch to local plants!
- Take strict monophages and conduct preliminary studies-under the grid in the control area...
- So, we plant a Mongolian oak tree in the Voronezh Region (as forestry enterprises do-ed.) and let out escorts that eat them?
- Absolutely! Then we get a sustainable community. Otherwise-an imbalance: the same Mongolian oak will trample on all the land, and there will be a second "American maple"...
- Can we stop introducing them altogether? Prohibit foresters from...
- Well, try it (laughs). Yes, and I repeat, it is useful to enrich biota! Here you do not have lemongrass in the Lipetsk region, actinidia...
- They say that they are already moving out of the country plots - they found them in the forest!
- Fine, the process needs to be strengthened. Collect seeds and scatter them through the forests of the Lipetsk region!
"And control insects?"
"That's right! But only strict monophages!
- Won't they switch to native plants?
"I don't think so. Even if this happens, they will eat mostly the "native" plant, and so on... well, maybe a little bit of it. Pellets for an elephant...
I agreed with him and shook his hand. Since forestry enterprises and summer residents are expanding the scale of flora introduction with might and main, it is hardly worth stopping this process and maybe even (as a friend believes) help him. We won't have forests in time - we'll have botanical gardens! You just need to "tighten up" the flora-limiting fauna in order to maintain a sustainable community.
And then I had a dream. I'm walking somewhere in the forest, in the vicinity of Lipetsk. Velvets are growing (enough now). And in the puddle... a flock of Maaks and Xutes! I wake up... winter quarters. Ussuri taiga...

To get rid of the maple tree-there is one way - to spend a lot of money on its destruction by mechanical means, as biologically dangerous, history can repeat itself. In Estonia, the hogweed is practically bred and managed to get rid of it by mechanical means-systematic destruction of plantings, prevention of flowering, even on land that is not cultivated or owned by anyone; but still, it sometimes comes out at the edge of the field, 1-2 plants, but no more. The Estonians spent a lot of effort on its removal.

On the other hand, this is the normal course of evolution, in which the person who brought these species took part. The seeds of this maple tree in Russia could get into the bird's goiter and spread themselves, but they were brought by humans. I think that this species should be destroyed only where it can cause harm - to push out other valuable breeds or reduce the species. And so this is the flora of the Russian Federation.

Many people think that introduction is terrible, but on the other hand, plants and animals spread across the Earth without human participation, especially when there was only one continent a few billion years ago. Now there are several continents, but man has appeared, and did not nature specifically create man for the spread of plants and animals on Earth? And, perhaps, this is only the only function of a person that nature has assigned to him???... And then one day it will destroy a person.

Canadian entomologists have a motto: Know your insekt. This is a warning before introducing insects to destroy other species. Introduction is good - it is the preservation of bio-diversity. But the introduction is also used for economic activities, since the productivity of biological species is low, people create hybrids and varieties, introduce introduced plants to increase productivity in conditions of limited resources.

Oh, Estonia, a small country. There you can also pull it out with your hands!

This post was edited by Wild Yuri - 18.04.2010 21: 01

Wild Yuri, I'm sorry, but you are trolling "pure water"    . Despite the fact that I myself (forgive God) am a professional biologist, this does not prevent me from being a provocateur myself , these are not antitheses. In Europe, according to my nerd friends, the Acer negundo problem is "in full growth". Go to the Internet - there is . As a helping hand for a drowning person, I recommend that you immediately contact the central Russian quarantine service - let them take the American white butterfly out from under their "roof", let them stop processing it and drive it to the next wave. She eats American maple just the way you want .

Real suggestions on how to solve a problem are always valuable. Which ones do you have? Here is one of the forum participants suggested uprooting, as in Estonia. Idea. But how to uproot them in our spaces? And the insemination is crazy... What are your options? Or let him finish off our coppices and gullies - the last thing left in the plowed forest-steppe zone?
PS And whether I arrange trolling, whether I'm a provocateur - call me whatever you want, but see the problem and suggest your solution!

Thinking today about the methods of dealing with American maple, I found only two:
1. Uprooting of plants;
2. Insect suppression.
The first method is terribly inefficient. It is used periodically in the Galichya Gora Nature Reserve. Gives results with young plants (no older than 3 years) being pulled up by the roots. Others writhe, but from the remaining roots (you can't pull them all out!) rushing young growth. This is damned work, effective "point-by-point" (in small reserves, maybe even the Galich maple Mountain did not win!), and the method for our vast spaces should hardly be considered as the main one.
The second method looks potentially preferable, but there are nuances.
First, it is not a fact that the released insect species will give a flash, and " maples will really get it." Introducers often spread slowly and have sparse ("normal") populations. Secondly, there is a threat of the species switching to native plants (small for monophages, but still...). It would be optimal to study the behavior of the "candidate" in the field beforehand - for example, in a large aviary (made of a double fine grid), with various trees and shrubs, including American maple. He devoured it to the ground, but he doesn't switch to other plants, so we can think about introducing it.
What other methods? Maybe I wasn't thinking straight. Tell me.
The decision on the introduction of the "maple limiter" will be made by the state (Rosselkhoznadzor or other authorities), and it will definitely be negative, even if the maple tree occupies the last natural tracts and monuments. For another two hundred years, the main thing for us will not be the preservation of landscapes and even nature reserves, but of forest belts and "wood forest". I think it would be easier to "break through" this project in the same" landscape-concerned " Estonia, and only from there... through borders...
Or make your own decision-after the above-mentioned research and receiving the support of the majority of colleagues...
The tone of my initial address may have been overly emotional and rude.
Apologize. But just when I saw, after returning from the Far East to the "Mainland", what became of the natural monuments Shcherbakovskaya and Danilovskaya Beams (Volgograd region), what became of the luxurious tracts of forest-steppe nature in my native Lipetsk region, with the Galichya Gora Nature Reserve, with many other native and favorite places-occupied and killed by the total American people. a maple tree... I couldn't write it any other way.

Yuri, how do you propose to distinguish monophages from oligophages? Well, there is no yavor there in Canada - the American type of X is not listed as its consumer. But if you bring this phytophage to Russia, you can try it out - and in such a way that it will not seem too small. It may take several generations of phytophage at first to make some adjustments in its physiology - but this will be like a time bomb. It's better to uproot

there is a way to fight - the injection of poisons. a lot of things have already been invented...

Yes, only mass shootings will save our forests ! Seriously, I am also for individual terror-an axe, herbicides (more precisely, arboricides), enthusiasm, money for this (even kickback and laundering, even). I don't like it myself, so I'm writing now a meter away from its branches .

It turns out that I was "blowing on the water". There are precedents!
http://www.zin.ru/Animalia/coleoptera/rus/zygsutsr.htm
The effect, however, is not super, but it is too early to draw conclusions from one experiment. Need a second one!
And I would like to find out how this was done technically and bureaucratically. I would be very grateful for information on this topic.

Foresters of protective belts are a separate caste, which only needs an increase in biomass, but I'm talking about the preservation of endangered, wild nature. American maple is already attacking nature reserves. The unique steppe reserve Galichya Gora in the Lipetsk region is overgrown with American maple (distributed, by the way, from neighboring forest belts). Employees of the reserve tried to cut it down, uproot it... Where there! This "thing" grows even thicker from their remaining roots!

This maple tree, so long ago in Russia and suddenly now began to "capture it"?! The Colorado potato beetle, as I recall, did its job very quickly... therefore, these two types are not comparable.
Maybe the problem is not in the maple tree, but in changes in the environment itself?
Here, for example, this maple tree (and others as well) does not manifest itself as you described. But I can cite similar observations regarding the narrow-leaved loch, which over the past 3-4 years has sharply begun to fill all the floodplains, at least on the Southern coast of the Taganrog Bay. Although earlier, in the same territories, separate groups of this species were found and quite stable.
The same can be said about the capture of the natural monument "Steppe Priazovskaya", licorice naked (for 10 years) and various tree (last 6 years). Although this is a mountainous area, and even a steppe (deposits of different ages).

Maybe there is such a trend caused, for example, by climate change?

It turns out that I was "blowing on the water". There are precedents!
http://www.zin.ru/Animalia/coleoptera/rus/zygsutsr.htm
The effect, however, is not super, but it is too early to draw conclusions from one experiment. Need a second one!
And I would like to find out how this was done technically and bureaucratically. I would be very grateful for information on this topic.

Something I do not meet the mass aggression of this leaf beetle on our ragweed. To be honest, I don't even remember meeting anyone on it at all.

Yuri, how do you propose to distinguish monophages from oligophages? Well, there is no yavor there in Canada - the American type of X is not listed as its consumer. But if you bring this phytophage to Russia, you can try it out - and in such a way that it will not seem too small. It may take several generations of phytophage at first to make some adjustments in its physiology - but this will be like a time bomb. It's better to uproot

Uprooting... Do you know how much work it is in at least one Danilovskaya Balka, how many people and equipment are needed? And how much effort was spent on Galicia Mountain, without the slightest result?
See my last post and link. The Soviet Union-could, and now impotence of endless discussions, without result and action. (Not about you, but the era).

Uprooting... Do you know how much work it is in at least one Danilovskaya Balka, how many people and equipment are needed? And how much effort was spent on Galicia Mountain, without the slightest result?
See my last post and link. The Soviet Union-could, and now impotence of endless discussions, without result and action. (Not about you, but the era).

As my "boss" used to say to me: "take a brush, a jar of herbicide and go to the Steppe ("Priazovskaya Steppe")... smear licorice (selectively)."

Something I do not meet the mass aggression of this leaf beetle on our ragweed. To be honest, I don't even remember meeting anyone on it at all.

But I also said that one experience is not a fact. You need 3-4, at least. And with each result can be very different (almost like in football). In any case, the topic of introducing potentially useful insects needs to be developed. And not to guess-even or not even. Practice will show. Yes, not without risk. But nothing else is given. Or sit in the "endless talk show"... either actions. We need a new era of action!