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Question to entomologists - the most ancient insects

Community and Forum → Other questions. Insects topics → Question to entomologists - the most ancient insects

KonstaZ, 19.03.2016 10:51

Greetings!
Even in the animal kingdom, there are representatives of very ancient species. Insects appeared on the planet earlier.
Which of the insects that surround us are the oldest?

Comments

19.03.2016 18:22, Black Coleopter

The most ancient insects are the order Cockroaches.

19.03.2016 23:18, KonstaZ

Thanks!
How old is this unit?
Who else?

19.03.2016 23:42, Victor Titov

Here is the link: https://books.google.ru/books?id=U8v4obriK4...epage&q&f=false , study.
Likes: 1

19.03.2016 23:57, KonstaZ

Thank you, interesting publication, but this is a bit of wrong information.
And ... imagine, you came to the doctor, and he gave you a textbook on therapy )))

19.03.2016 23:59, Proctos

I will now write you briefly who and when of the modern detachments

20.03.2016 0:08, Victor Titov

Thank you, interesting publication, but this is a bit of wrong information.
And ... imagine, you came to the doctor, and he gave you a textbook on therapy )))

Well, it's good if you go to the doctor. And if you get to the healer, koi are also found here? wink.gif So, for me personally, it is better to study the primary sources. umnik.gif However, as you know.

20.03.2016 0:08, Proctos

The oldest of the true winged insects are the order of dragonflies and mayflies.
Slightly less ancient cockroaches and grylloblattids.
The ancestor looked like this:

Pictures:
picture: _______________________________.jpg
_______________________________.jpg — (72.54 k)

Likes: 1

20.03.2016 0:32, KonstaZ

Well, it's good if you go to the doctor. And if you get to the healer, koi are also found here? wink.gif So, for me personally, it is better to study the primary sources. umnik.gif However, as you know.

Undoubtedly. But you can't embrace the vast. That's why they came up with the division of specialties.

The oldest of the true winged insects are the order of dragonflies and mayflies.
Slightly less ancient cockroaches and grylloblattids.
The ancestor looked like this:

I must have phrased the question incorrectly.
I would like to understand which insects have remained unchanged since ancient times. Such as Latimeria (400 million years old), platypus, horseshoe crab, and other living fossils. That is, not orders, classes, genera, etc., but specific representatives that have escaped species variability and extinction.

20.03.2016 0:38, Proctos

As a paleoentomologist, I can tell you that the insect species is not reliably seen far back in the paleontological record. The most distant of the more or less studied is the Baltic amber, where several seemingly modern species were found, but they still differ from the specimens that are still alive.
Likes: 1

20.03.2016 0:43, KonstaZ

Thank you, now I understand )))
So it is not fate to hear the buzzing of the relic (((

20.03.2016 0:48, Proctos

Well, as a consolation, I will say that for example gryloblattids are very archaic and there are very few of their species. So Grylloblattina djakonovi from the Far East can be called a living fossil!

20.03.2016 0:50, Proctos

Some types of embia are also probably very ancient. Well, you understand..

20.03.2016 0:52, KonstaZ

Well, at least one lived )))
Probably, the potential for variability significantly exceeded the potential for survival.

20.03.2016 0:53, Proctos

And in general, for the relics it is not to us. You need to go to the Southern Hemisphere where there are remnants of the ancient flora and fauna of the mainland of Gondwana.

20.03.2016 1:27, Oleg Belkin

As a paleoentomologist, I can tell you that the insect species is not reliably seen far back in the paleontological record. The most distant of the more or less studied is the Baltic amber, where several seemingly modern species were found, but they still differ from the specimens that are currently living.


Can you tell me as a paleoentomologist who it is http://molbiol.ru/forums/index.php?showtop...dpost&p=1341630 , more than one comment in three years. It's a shame even for a special site.

This post was edited by sciurus - 03/20/2016 01: 29

20.03.2016 1:44, Proctos

Well, this is a mosquito from the Chironomidae family, a female. They are not uncommon in amber.

20.03.2016 8:04, Svyatoslav Knyazev

in Baltic amber there are finds of ancient primitive butterflies. Externally, they do not differ in any way from the living Eriocraniidae and Micropterigidae. it can be assumed that these groups of the most ancient lepidoptera have survived to our days in their original appearance.

20.03.2016 8:28, Proctos

The CU asked us to name the species, not families or even genera that have survived to this day.

20.03.2016 8:31, Proctos

In general, in insects, it is necessary to talk not about species, but about archaic states of signs. And nucleotide sequences, markers of this! smile.gif

20.03.2016 11:21, Лавр Большаков

The CU asked us to name the species, not families or even genera that have survived to this day.


The degree of preservation of the remains of fossil insects is insufficient to conclude that they are conspecific to modern species. In addition, it is not known how genetics changes during this time. Even now, living species are known, which are very difficult to distinguish by morphology, and their species status is revealed by very subtle studies, up to crossing. Therefore, no one will tell you a single "paleontological" species that has survived to the present time.
Even Latimeria is too ancient to be considered a very correct species, since it is impossible to conduct a comparative molecular analysis with fossils of similar species.
Likes: 1

20.03.2016 12:06, Dracus

I agree 100% with Lavr. Evolution is not interrupted for a single generation. Therefore, an attempt to indicate a species that has been supposedly unchanged for N million years inevitably runs into a "species problem".
It is easier to search for the genus with the same problem statement.
And a small remark - cockroaches of modern appearance (order Blattodea) appeared only in the Jurassic. Modern dragonflies are also much younger than commonly believed. It's just that the older related groups are similar in general habit to the modern ones. But unless they are similar.

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