Insects die in the laboratory

And another problem. Regardless of the previous one. If Orius laevigatus is cultivated in the presence of Tyroglyphus, the reproduction of Orius is suppressed. At the same time, under the microscope, direct physical contact of the two species is not observed. What can be the reason for the inhibition of development ?

As for Chrysoperla carnea Stephens, it's like asking the same question about the negative effects of Tyroglyphus.

I looked it up here:

https://scholar.google.com.ua/scholar?hl=ru...roglyphus&btnG=

https://scholar.google.com.ua/scholar?q=Ori...ru&as_sdt=0%2C5

I don't think I found anything like that

This post was edited by ihlindham on-09.11.2016 20: 54

Detergents may contain boric acid.
Tyroglyphoid mites depress the cultures of crickets, cockroaches, etc . - this has long been known to breeders. The suppression mechanism seems to be chemical. Google the collections of EARAZA on bespam - there was something about it.

Does the cleaning lady use her new soap right inside the insectariums? If not, then the reason is definitely something else.

Does the cleaning lady use her new soap right inside the insectariums? If not, then the reason is definitely something else.

In any case, for Orius, it was definitely something else - there were no detergents there at all

In such a situation, you can't do without maximum monitoring and a set of statistics, and you need to register almost all events around insects, even what and when cosmetics are used by employees in the laboratory.

A safe for insects soap is the simplest "household" and it is better that it was without glycerin.

And then, you don't even say how long previously insects were kept in these conditions without problems (years, months?) . If "years", then you really need to analyze what could happen in the near future and affect the situation today.

This post was edited by Yuriy352-09.11.2016 22: 06

In such a situation, you can't do without maximum monitoring and a set of statistics, and you need to register almost all events around insects, even what and when cosmetics are used by employees in the laboratory.

Yes, I seem to have listed all possible factors at the beginning of the topic. Well, except that these "miracles" did not take into account:

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10516-010-9139-3

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/downl...p=rep1&type=pdf

https://scholar.google.com.ua/scholar?clust...l=ru&as_sdt=0,5

Since the 2000s, I have been breeding Orius laevigatus - and I have not observed such problems with imago. It's strange that it's the imagos that are dying. Perhaps it's the feed - not high-quality, not enough.

And with ticks in orius, the problem occurs with high humidity in the container and a rare change in the breeding substrate. It is necessary not to be lazy to wash the containers, transplant the imago or larvae with an exhauster (or brush), and keep about 70% humidity.

Yes, I seem to have listed all possible factors at the beginning of the topic.

You have listed many factors, but they are not tied in time to specific events in insects, without formal statistics-this is just guessing.

A few months. I even wrote above that gene drift could not have happened in time

And you are sure that the conditions of detention are kept within acceptable limits, and the experience of several months for the laboratory is not a big indicator.
A healthy food supply is also very important.

You have listed many factors, but they are not tied in time to specific events in insects, without formal statistics-this is just guessing.

For God's sake, what are the statistics for force majeure and unknown factors ? Insects are dying. Build a dozen more labs and run a one-factor analysis of variance (ANOVA)? The question is with what factors if we (and you as I see too) do not know what can be the cause of the death of insects.

Are you sure that the conditions of detention are kept within acceptable limits?

I wrote above - all parameters are kept in the norm: temperature, humidity, photoperiod...

..A few months ' experience is not a big indicator for a lab.

And where did I write that I have several months of work experience ? It is this culture (a specific one, newly obtained, and in general we have been working with this type for many years) that has been in the laboratory for several months, and similar populations of Orius have been present before. Our divorcees have a lot of experience. I don't do breeding - I'm a theorist

This post was edited by ihlindham on-09.11.2016 23: 22

Forget about degeneration right away, laboratory cultures of insects are contained in hundreds and thousands of generations, and what mass death does not occur. Probably, those who had it (if insects have such a problem at all, which I, having quite a rich experience with a variety of tropical species, am not at all sure), were lost at the very beginning, so to speak, did not pass testing. The fact that two phylogenetically very distant species began to die at once indicates a detrimental change in some environmental factor. It turns out that you have not listed everything. What's up with the feed?

The fact that two phylogenetically very distant species began to die at once indicates a detrimental change in some environmental factor. It turns out that you have not listed everything. What's up with the feed?

They are both types of entomophages-they are used to kill phytophages in closed ground. That is, useful predators that feed on pests of agricultural plants and are used in greenhouses. Accordingly, they are also bred on them - on pests-phytophages. In principle, when all the food is eaten, even the juice from plants can be consumed (at least orius, as our divorcees explained to me). If there are problems with natural food, then we feed them with yeast.

P. S. There is in my opinion a good (although very ancient) monograph translated from English: E. Steinhaus "Pathology of insects". Still, 840 pages of the most useful information even today. I can only guess what is described there applies to our case.

This post was edited by ihlindham - 10.11.2016 06: 49

Accordingly, they are also bred on them - on pests-phytophages.

I will add-they are bred on sitotroga-grain moth-Sitotroga cerealella Olivier

I meant, not what they are fed at all, but specifically, did something like that happen with the feed (for example, a change of supplier) before the beginning of the pestilence? I think it is unlikely that these are infections or parasitic infestations, they are usually specific, at least up to the order. Some kind of toxin in feed objects-that's what most falls under suspicion at first glance. It often happens that poisoned food insects live quite well, and the predators that have tasted them die. If you breed a moth yourself, have you changed its feed in the previous period?

I think it is unlikely that these are infections or parasitic infestations, they are usually specific, at least up to the order.

I also thought about infections and asked our employees-do they see any characteristic signs under the microscope with an experienced eye ? They say they don't see any visible signs that way. Well, the analysis for bacteria and viruses is a problem, you know. In this book about infectious, fungal, viral and other lesions there is a lot of things: E. Steinhaus "Pathology of insects".

I meant, not what they are fed at all, but specifically, did something like that happen with the feed (for example, a change of supplier) before the beginning of the pestilence? ... Some kind of toxin in feed objects-that's what most falls under suspicion at first glance. It often happens that poisoned food insects live quite well, and the predators that have tasted them die. If you breed a moth yourself, have you changed its feed in the previous period?

Thank you, I'll ask our people about the feed.

Tyroglyphoid mites depress the cultures of crickets, cockroaches, etc . - this has long been known to breeders. The suppression mechanism seems to be chemical. Google the collections of EARAZA on bespam - there was something about it.

Quality Assessment of the Commercially Available Predator
Amblyseius swirskii (Acari: Phytoseiidae)

Well, what do you want to tell me with these quotes that the young of Orius are fed with tyrophagus? I believe it willingly. So this does not contradict what I wrote above. For example (in general), you don't mind eating pork. But if you are also placed in a pigsty, you will find this new biotope much less attractive than it was before
And according to the additional information that you give below, you probably have some kind of non-specific infection there, such as Bacillus thuringiensis. Or really, low-quality food.

I read about this Bacillus thuringiensis, it does not cause an infection, but toxicoinfection and enter the insect's body with food. So, whatever one may say, the toxin comes out in feed objects, even if it is enclosed in an additional container in the form of a bacterial cell inside the KO (a kind of matryoshka pupa). But with the same success it can be, for example, some mycotoxin. On the grain, which, judging by the name, this moth is fed, many different poisonous fungi can grow, both during maturation and during storage. In theory, the moth itself, in the course of evolution, should have largely acquired tolerance to these toxins. But bedbugs and golden-eyes, which in nature usually feed on completely different insects, do not. Here-such a shaky logical construction does not in any way claim to be an unambiguous answer. So if the purpose of the vehicle's work is precisely this, then he will have to conduct biochemical studies himself, no one will make a diagnosis in absentia on the forum, just like a person on the doctors ' forum. If the essence of the question is simply to eliminate this case, then it is easier to simply restart the cultures and not soar the brains. The usual "beasts" are the same.