Mantises

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Лекс, 11.06.2006 15:44

Why does a praying mantis girl eat her fiance after the wedding?

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11.06.2006 23:33, Chromocenter

"Why does it exclude the possibility of sexual selection?"
This is, of course, as a last resort: if the condition is met: if the male has mated with the female, then it is definitely eaten, then one male will not be able to fertilize several females. But if, say, the male still has a chance to leave, then sexual selection can already be: who will avoid eating more often, in the direction of which selection will occur: so many attributes can be selected. In my opinion, this essay should take into account that the observation was not in natural conditions, and mantises could be initially in a state of stress, like animals do not want to breed in captivity. Somewhere (I don't remember where) I saw photos of a female eating a male at the moment of mating!

12.06.2006 19:40, sealor

Well, we do not have many mantises, I would certainly like to observe them myself in nature, but it is not so easy to find mating. But you can also bring it home, put it on the balcony. And as for the question itself, why do they do this - in my opinion, the answer is simple-because you want to eat. Again, from the experience of mating spiders - if the female is well fed, then there is no question of any aggression. I mated once with a bird-eater, observed it myself, no desire to eat a male. And yet so much talk. In nature, perhaps animals are more hungry, so cannibalism prevails.
And as for the quality of fertilization with the head bowed off, there are generally funny things inspired - like the fact that the thought process interferes with this business

, but seriously, it is possible that an increase in sperm injection is achieved by reducing the male's body when biting the head.

12.06.2006 20:35, Chromocenter

"And as for the quality of fertilization when the head is bowed off, there are generally funny things inspired - like the fact that the thought process interferes with this business "
And yet there may be something in this: it is known that the motor activity of insects increases if the head, and with it the brain, is absent. But still, somehow it looks like this... not so: although insects have large sperm cells and they do not spend them as wastefully as we do, but they still have more of them than eggs. So, as if the male praying mantis doesn't need to try too hard. Although... mating of insects goes on for a long time and something can be...
Bolivaru: still, as far as I understand it, pleasure is not a completely "abstract" process, but is accompanied by quite definite changes in the hormonal nature and is the body's response to something that can in principle lead to an improvement in its condition (or the individual or the species, the population as a whole).

12.06.2006 23:54, Tigran Oganesov

Doesn't go in the sense of not being known, or is it known that it doesn't? There are signals that attract them or not. They feel something at the same time. It is already difficult to say what exactly is considered "pleasure", but all some "positive" impulses, apparently, still exist.

Not known. What I meant was that even if it's not clear if they feel pain, which is more understandable, it's much harder to notice the pleasure. A dog wagging its tail or a cat purring is one thing, or even an iguana closing its eyes when you scratch its chin. And an insect is quite another matter. "Positive impulses" are simply preferences, the attractiveness of something. But what they feel, and whether they feel at all, is a big question that is far from being resolved.

13.06.2006 0:41, Chromocenter

"In many arthropods, males mate only once and then die, as in many spiders, for example. So I wonder how this happens in mantises. In nature, of course, because anything can happen in a cage. "
Yes, and butterflies and hymenoptera often have a similar karitna, but they often either do not feed on adults or their males are "defective" like hymenoptera, and mantises seem to be neither one nor the other. Well, unless the males are smaller. But I don't really know either.
With vertebrate emotions, of course, it is easier: for them-that is a powerful hint: that is, we ourselves. Well, it's true that we don't have a tail to wag, but other signals are generally similar to ours, even in iguanas. But the same iguanas may have other signals of pleasure that we do not perceive as such.

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23.09.2006 21:48, Sparrow

And I believe that it is not a specific temperature that rules, but the average annual indicators and recognized dependencies of mantises, in Sochi they can still eat males, in the South of Europe the beginning of autumn is very mild, so this will not happen, besides, I think you can rely on Ognev's opinion, and in general can we stop the dispute? to know this for sure, you need to be the instinct of mantises, they know better where to eat the male where not, and the fact of several mating over the summer and the fact that the female does not eat the male when kept in captivity and mating in a large terrarium speak in favor of my opinion, zhor attacks the female 1-3 minunty after mating, the male-if it is not sluggish - it may well go away, Quotes are taken from the book "Invertebrates in the terrarium" by Alexander Ognev Moscow 2004.

23.09.2006 23:16, Tigran Oganesov

I was in Spain in 2000 and I say that I saw it with my own eyes. They eat, and even like that!
The last time I was in Sochi was in September 2006, so I wrote specifically about this year, and I go there all the time. Even in October, you can go in shorts and without a T-shirt, swim in the sea and watch the crowds of insects. I've been watching and keeping mantises for about 20 years, and I think I have a right to my opinion. Therefore, I argue, nothing personal

About the fact that in a terrarium the female does not eat the male during mating if it is well fed, I myself have repeatedly written on the same forum. And this behavior, by the way, is not an exclusive feature of winter, and is also characteristic of tropical praying mantises. That's why I think the "theory of temperature dependence", if you can call it that, is nonsense.

P.S. The female often begins to eat the male during mating, and not later.

P. P. S. As for literature-read scientific articles. For example this one:

41154.web.pdf

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23.09.2006-07.10.2006