Emotions of insects

It's hard to say... maybe you can, depending on what exactly is meant by emotions.
I think you can scare them.

I think we should start by defining the concept and what causes it.. You can start with fear.. Let's say that if fear is a reaction to sudden unexpected manifestations, then we can probably judge from the reaction of a particular type.. If we assume that fear is the fear of certain things and the possibility of their fulfillment, then I think this is excluded.. Most likely, emotions are the result of thinking, no thinking - no emotions.. However, beetles like emo are not exactly the result of evolution

Definition? I have them.
Here is the definition from http://www.aintell.ru/elib/8/578.htm#_ftn1
Emotions of E (can be compared) with the subject's assessment of the results of their behavior, which is carried out during the implementation of behavior (both "external" and "internal") and at its completion.

Using this definition, the author comes to the conclusion that not only insects, but all living things, INCLUDING PLANTS, have emotions. I quote: "Therefore, ESES are consistent with the positions of R. Plutchik (1980) and R. Buck (1989) in the aspect that all living things, including plants, have E, as well as with the position of A. Trewavas (2003), which provides convincing theoretical and experimental arguments in favor of the fact that plants have intelligence, memory, the ability to learn and purposeful behavior.
Thus, when a fish struggles on the hook, it actually experiences the strongest negative emotions (Sneddon et al., 2003), and does not just show their physiological bodily signs (see Randerson, 2003). Or if the cochlea performs self-stimulatory behavior (mesocerebral region), then this suggests that the mentioned region plays an "emotional" role in behavior, and indicates that this behavior of the cochlea has an E+characteristic (Balaban and Maksimova, 1993). "
If this definition does not suit, then you can search for other. In the article.Kleinginna, P.R., Kleinginna, A.M., 1981. A categorized list of emotion definitions, with suggestions for a consensual definition. Motivat. Emot. 5, 92 definitions of emotions are given.

So, in my opinion, it is better to use common sense than scientific definitions.
Yes, it is true that complex emotions like guilt, contempt, pride, or shame are associated with thinking and are impossible without it. But, for example, fear is possible without thinking. A person is startled by a sudden loud sound. There is no thinking here.

If you don't go into the subtleties, then do insects have behavior characteristic of fear (stampede, hiding) ?
The reaction can be to a clear threat or even to some abstract influence, such as a loud sound.

You know everything and it's strange why you ask

If we follow your definition, then I agree with ami. In insects, for example, it happens that if you walk, but the shadow from you falls on the insect (but it did not see you), then it falls down. This is most likely fear without thinking.. With thinking - let's say, the fear that something might happen..

Wikipediki say:
Emotions (from Lat. emovere-to excite, excite) - states associated with the assessment of the significance for an individual of factors acting on him and expressed primarily in the form of direct experiences of satisfaction or dissatisfaction of his actual needs. An emotion is understood as either an inner feeling of a person, or an expression of this feeling (see nonverbal communication). Often, the strongest but short-term emotions are called affect, and the deepest and stable ones are called feelings. Emotion is a mental process of impulsive regulation of behavior based on a sensory reflection of the need significance of external influences, their favorability or harmfulness for the individual's life.

I agree with this definition.. This is partly reflected in insects and others. animals, but it doesn't completely fit.. Insects can't evaluate their actions without thinking.. they act on the basis of reflexes and needs, not desires, they do not have thinking, they do not care about the opinions and reactions of others to their actions (in a certain sense, not counting social insects)

In general, my conclusion is that insects have a special form of emotion, lower than that of mammals, for example

I wonder if no one has ever seen an obvious expression of pride in insects, such as a male stag beetle fighting when one of them manages to throw the other down? Or the expression of bliss in a mating male beetle? The chitinous mask, of course, deprives insects of facial expressions, but does no one really see the manifestations of "complex" emotions that are inherent in vertebrates in their body posture and movements?

Still, emotions, imho , are a product of the higher nervous system. After all, insects have ganglia, not brains. Besides, what role can emotion play in behavior determined entirely by instinct?

Not entirely by INSTINCT

Yes, it is true that complex emotions like guilt, contempt, pride, or shame are associated with thinking and are impossible without it.

I think it's not so much about thinking as it is about the public. Although cats are not public, but they can probably feel guilty. In general, it's easy to get confused here.

But, for example, fear is possible without thinking. A person is startled by a sudden loud sound. There is no thinking here.

If you don't go into the subtleties, then do insects have behavior characteristic of fear (stampede, hiding) ?
The reaction can be to a clear threat or even to some abstract influence, such as a loud sound.

fear-probably yes - what else causes small beetles to fall from the top leaves if you cast a shadow on them? They won't just fall down if the shadow of the next stalk falls on them - you won't get lunch that way
In general, emotions in my opinion, in a certain sense, the response to an implicit stimulus-for example, a rotting corpse causes disgust-nothing has happened yet - there is no contact, and the answer is already there.

perhaps they have a certain type of emotion, with the help of which insects acquire certain reflexes.. You see, that is, if one bug sees another being killed or maimed, then it should not develop anything in relation to the aggressor. To do this, he will need a certain variable, which will determine the attitude to various things (location to stronger males in females during mating, preference for certain food, reaction to running from an attacker ) Perhaps this happens precisely because of some emotions.. Perhaps because of a certain kind of consciousness.. It is difficult to say exactly what is really here, but low emotions look affirmatively against the background of such a theory

I think it's not so much about thinking as it is about the public.

One doesn't interfere with the other. For social emotions, thinking is also necessary. In order to experience feelings of guilt, you need to have an image of the subject who is being harmed and you need to understand that some action is harming him. All this is not easy to keep in mind. But cats, like, can.

Indeed, how does the shadow of a person differ from the shadow of a leaf?

If you call an implicit stimulus information, then you have answered the question of how sensations differ from emotions. Emotions need information (which is processed by thinking). For sensations, mechanical action on the receptors is enough.

The chitinous mask, of course, deprives insects of facial expressions, but does no one really see the manifestations of "complex" emotions that are inherent in vertebrates in their body posture and movements?

This is a real way to recognize emotions in animals. For example, my cat's tail is an indicator of its condition. Tail movements are so diverse that I have so far learned to recognize only displeasure and flirting.
But the less similar an animal is to a human, the more difficult it is to understand its body movements. It's easy to mistake your fantasies for reality and start attributing aesthetic pleasure or suspicion to beetles. I don't want to say that you do it. But it would be good to compare your personal impressions with the opinion of experts. True, the opinion of experts is also sometimes strange. For example, here http://elementy.ru/news/430445 fish are given the ability to think logically.

  

Emotions (from Lat. emovere-to excite, excite) - states associated with the assessment of the significance for an individual of factors acting on him and expressed primarily in the form of direct experiences of satisfaction or dissatisfaction of his actual needs.

If in everyday terms, so it is sensibly described. If it is scientific, then this is not a definition. First, one incomprehensible word "eiotii" is defined through another incomprehensible word "needs". You walk down a familiar street, turn a corner, and see a clown standing on his hands. You experience the emotion of surprise. What need is being met or not being met here?
You enter a warm house from the cold. Experiencing warmth. Does a person have an actual need for heat? There is. Feeling warm is an emotion? No.
And the feeling of hunger? Much more relevant. It should also be an emotion according to the definition from Wikipedia. In the article Emotion and consciousness.
Naotsugu Tsuchiya and Ralph Adolphs, TRENDS in Cognitive Sciences Vol. 11 No. 4, 2007
even articulates such a problem.
Are states, like thirst, an emotion? Our treatment here suggests
that states that are normally considered emotions, like anger and
fear, share much in common with states that are normally not
considered emotions, like thirst, hunger and pain. We believe that
the evidence to date supports a broader concept of ‘emotion’ that
links it to interoception on the one hand, and to motivated
behavior on the other. But we also feel that this view leaves room
for domains within such a broad notion of emotion, of Ekman-like
‘basic’ emotions, and of social–moral emotions, for example.
What distinguishes social emotions, basic emotions and states
like thirst and hunger seem like tractable questions that can be
investigated at psychological and neurobiological levels.

But the fall of insects from a branch is like fear. It would be good to read what science thinks about this.

I read about fish and remembered that male stag beetles also know how to really evaluate their opponents by size. So, very small ones fight only with equal size, and always run away from 7-8 cm "monsters". And the big ones, in turn, never chase and do not offend the little ones, who are immediately inferior to them in the palm of the championship. You can read about this, in particular, on Coleopterologists, but I still don't know how links are made on the forum, and I'm ashamed. In general, the emotions of deer beetles are shown in the film "Microcosm", where the duel of beetles is very cool and plausible.

The only pity is that we can't stand in the place of insects for a while, and feel what they feel.. Without this, we have little chance to understand anything, only theories. Still a chat hunt

From the Wikipedia definition:
it says something related to the significance assessment. Can insects evaluate? If we use Omar's words, we can say yes..

But whether they are satisfied is really a question. From human knowledge, we can say that it is only an instinct, but what actually happens is hidden from us. Is it possible to consider the invigoration of a butterfly after absorbing nectar as satisfaction? That's where we're weak.. Science claims that there are only instincts, reflexes, etc., but they talk about what has been studied and proven, but if they have not proved it (about emotions, a state of satisfaction, desires), then there is nothing to talk about, it is impossible to assert. We will be content with our assumptions.

If you call an implicit stimulus information, then you have answered the question of how sensations differ from emotions. Emotions need information (which is processed by thinking). For sensations, mechanical action on the receptors is enough.

That's exactly what I meant.
it turns out that insects also have emotions. But not all organisms are likely to have it, because in order to respond not so much to irritation as to its stereotype, it is necessary at least to remember and compare the available information, and this is clearly not everyone can do.
Omar links are made like this:
take (there is no suitable one, I take google ) copy it from the address bar, making sure that the text, commas or something else does not stick together with it:
http://www.google.com/
If you want to label it with a word, click on the button with the globe
and there she already tells what to do, the word can be any:
Google

This post was edited by Chromocenter - 05/10/2007 14: 23

http://www.zin.ru/Animalia/Coleoptera/rus/world1a2.htm
Hooray, it turned out! Here you can read about the stag beetle.

This post was edited by omar - 05/10/2007 15: 11

Thank you for the link, omar!
It's interesting-I always thought that there should be a female near the beetle lists (as it should be at a tournament) But they say there aren't any nearby. And prznak like clearly secondary-sexual-inchache why would the jaws have grown so much? Strange... it remains to be assumed that they will find out through a duel "who is more important" and can claim more females or juice. But then they must know each other "by sight".

Chromocenter, are there really no horned animals of this kind in Israel? If this is the case, be sure to watch the movie "Microcosm", and you will be even more surprised to see firsthand the very emotions that I spoke about in my very first post on this topic. Especially striking is how they behave before the fight. They are not always grasped immediately, as it is described in the article on the site, I have seen it myself many times.

This post was edited by omar - 05/10/2007 15: 58

I didn't meet any horns here, they mostly develop on oak trees, but here oaks, which are thin and frail four meters in height, probably, and a trunk 20 cm in diameter - such a horn probably won't feed. Although I don't know about other types.
and where you can get "Microcosm" - I've already heard about it many times, but I didn't come across it...

In Russia - on any pirated disc with documentaries for 100 re.
In Israel-probably on licensed ones. And for shekkeli.
The film is French, not at all rare. Original title - Microcosmos: Le peuple de l'herbe [1996]

And insects don't have emotions, imho. Just like facial expressions. I won't explain.

You can't talk about emotions. With facial expressions, I already understand everything, but with emotions...

That is, how is it in insects one, in humans the other? Everyone wants to live and everyone has an instinct for self-preservation - so as not to be substituted once again, and one of the expressions of this is fear. What is different here?

Okay, let's not dig too deep. We will judge only by their behavior. If an insect runs away in a situation of danger, then we will assume that this is a manifestation of fear. If Esli jumps when he finds a lump of sugar, then we will assume that he jumps for joy.
What kinds of emotions do insects have? Strag and anger are definitely there. What others?
Here is a small list.
Curiosity ( research interest) - neglect, grief-joy, fear-hope, anger-satisfaction, respect - contempt, pride - shame, disgust -contempt, surprise, doubt.

Still, emotions, imho , are a product of the higher nervous system. After all, insects have ganglia, not brains. Besides, what role can emotion play in behavior determined entirely by instinct?

No, don't twist it, otherwise it will unscrew nafig and fall off
Insects have the very brain, and even consisting of several departments, and in it everything is very difficult to function there (see, for example, Tyshchenko V. P. Fundamentals of insect physiology. Part 2. Physiology of Information Systems. - L.: LSU Publishing House, 1977.).
As for GNI, if you rely on the definition
http://www.mtu-net.ru/psi/st/020000.htm
then, with the exception of the first phrase, everything else in the most advanced groups (in terms of the organization of the nervous system) of insects has

Yes... what can I say to you, my friends....
"insect brain" is a strong thing... emotions and stress...
Honestly even funny.

Yes... what can I say to you, my friends....
"insect brain" is a strong thing... emotions and stress...
Honestly, it's even funny.

It's good that you have something to laugh about. And you'd better refute

Yes... what can I say to you, my friends....
"insect brain" is a strong thing... emotions and stress...
Honestly, it's even funny.

What's so funny about that? Drosophila is a classic object for studying the mechanisms of stress response. Moreover, physiological and biochemical responses to stress can be studied at the genetic level, since the genome is much more fully studied than in rats-mice-humans, in addition, there are a lot of mutant lines and the ability to conduct genetic experiments. Currently, drosophila is one of the models in the study of the mechanisms of Parkinson's and Alzheimer's diseases (go to PubMed and see the links, if you are not too lazy). And if you are amused by the phrase "insect brain", well, open Dogel at your leisure, look there about the nervous system.

But that's not the point...
The point is not at all what is and what is not...
And the funny thing is that the "animating" and humanizing of any organisms has now gone so far...
If you talk about the physiological processes and their relationship with the nervous system, the degree of their development, and so on, then emotions are inherent in apes, while in lower primates they are only guessed...
Talking about emotions in insects is at least strange... as well as about stress in plants, although scientifically, in the last 15 years, the last of the concepts has been extended to them... at the same time, the same guys have completely forgotten the meaning of the "natural reactions" of the body and instincts, and the relations do not occur in any way...
Funny... they watered the plant with sulfuric acid or put the beetle in alcohol - they were upset and therefore died... And the beetle "got sad from the cold" on the emotional plane, because in his head there was a longing for the sun...

So after all, " how much is opium for the people?"..

Alas, the real discussion is hopeless, and at the level of "there is a God or there is no God", no more, no less.

And there is nothing to refute, Mr. Omar... I don't see anything to discuss.

This post was edited by mikepride-08.06.2007 15: 17

mikepride, CPC

Ek you have clumsy all turned out, mikepride. Beetle, in the stain, it is worth looking at, it still has no damn thing... That's really "what's there to talk about for a long time, since it's dark, go to bed "(c) The conversation was, in fact, not about what they think there, but about how much they are able to experience feelings other than the protective life instincts necessary for self-preservation. Bolivar, what is PPC, and after that you should drink beer?

PPKS - (I'll Sign Under Each Word) - a fidoshny abbreviation.

I stand by my opinion! (read far above)
And there is no God, proven - ZANUSSI!

RippeR and who is ZANUSSI?

household technician.. You need to watch TV

No, don't do that. Trust me, everyone. Trust the modern person who doesn't own a TV. Honestly, not from poverty.

I Know I Don't Watch It Myself

I don't have one either, by the way. but I figured it out later...I found it with Yandex...

there are 2 TV sets at home, but I don't watch any of them, but it wasn't always like this, and ads are driven in quickly

I agree completely!