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Male Saga pedo?! Without ovipositor

Community and Forum → Insects biology and faunistics → Male Saga pedo?! Without ovipositor

Stas Shinkarenko, 12.07.2012 14:56

On July 9, I found a hole without an ovipositor. The location of the discovery is Frolovsky district of the Volgograd region. Please tell me if this individual can be a male. Or is it a trauma or pathology? Now the insect lives in a cage on the balcony.

This post was edited by wise snake - 12.07.2012 14: 57

Pictures:

IMG_8932.jpg — (99.28к)

IMG_8935.jpg — (88.35к)

IMG_8937.jpg — (106.47 k)

IMG_8939.jpg — (96.27к)

IMG_8941.jpg — (91.52к)

Comments

12.07.2012 15:41, Mantispid

cool if it's really a male saga pedo

12.07.2012 16:45, DanMar

Can I look at the elytra (their rudiments)? Judging by the genitals, this is a female with a congenital deformity-without an ovipositor, imho. The subgenital plate is like that of the female, while the males should have appendages. Perhaps at the age of the predimago, or earlier, someone bit off or tore off the rudiment of the ovipositor, which soon healed. As far as I know, there have never been any finds of males of the steppe dybka, so if this is really a male, congratulations!

Likes: 3

12.07.2012 17:12, Stas Shinkarenko

Can I look at the elytra (their rudiments)?

Here:

Pictures:

IMG_8942.jpg — (429.17к)

IMG_8943.jpg — (263.84к)

Likes: 3

12.07.2012 17:14, DanMar

I'm sure it's a female. In males of all species of this genus, a sound apparatus is observed.

Likes: 3

12.07.2012 18:44, Mantispid

The sensation is postponed...

Likes: 1

12.07.2012 19:57, Pirx

Can I look at the elytra (their rudiments)? Judging by the genitals, this is a female with a congenital deformity-without an ovipositor, imho. The subgenital plate is like that of the female, while the males should have appendages. Perhaps at the age of the predimago, or earlier, someone bit off or tore off the rudiment of the ovipositor, which soon healed. As far as I know, there have never been any finds of males of the steppe dybka, so if this is really a male, congratulations!

It seems that somewhere I read that the male dybka steppe was collected already, but in the XIX century.

12.07.2012 20:14, Zlopastnyi Brandashmyg

This instance is extremely interesting. Very similar to the male. On Monday I will try to show the photos to A. V. Gorokhov.

What state is the instance in: live or committed?

IMHO, the find is potentially publishable.

This post was edited by Zlopastnyi Brandashmyg - 12.07.2012 20: 15

Likes: 2

12.07.2012 20:35, Stas Shinkarenko

This instance is extremely interesting. Very similar to the male. On Monday I will try to show the photos to A. V. Gorokhov.

What state is the instance in: live or committed?

IMHO, the find is potentially publishable.

The rack is alive, behaves extremely aggressively, bites. Nimbly runs and jumps, I'm afraid that it would not be struck by taheenami.

The insect is quite large (the body is at least 5 cm), but maybe it is a young individual whose ovipositor has not yet grown? Nevertheless, adult dybki occur for 3 weeks.

This post was edited by wise snake - 12.07.2012 20: 46

12.07.2012 21:10, Zlopastnyi Brandashmyg

Thanks! Even if this larva is not the last age, then, judging by the size, the ovipositor germ should already be large. The terminalia look like a male! But I'm not an expert on orthoptera, so I have to be careful. The structures are symmetrical and roughly correspond to the top of the male's abdomen. I'll try to show the photos to a specialist on Monday.

In fact, there is nothing supernatural about finding single males in a normally parthenogenetic population. It is possible that males sometimes "pop out" - has anyone looked through the dybok in thousands?

Likes: 1

12.07.2012 21:48, Egorus

Likes: 5

12.07.2012 22:59, Egorus

In the report of Nilson dated 02.07.2012 20: 02 URL #10156 on the photo IMG_2922_1.JPG — (755.82 k), p. 240 " Reports...",
the ovipositor is not visible in the dybka. Maybe a male too???

13.07.2012 0:54, DanMar

Yes, it looks like a male if the ovipositor is not hidden behind a branch. I would also like to add that the sexual apparatus of the males I found looked somewhat different from that of the wise snake specimen. Because for a normal male, the dybki of the church should be twice as large.

13.07.2012 8:35, Stas Shinkarenko

In the report of Nilson dated 02.07.2012 20: 02 URL #10156 on the photo IMG_2922_1.JPG — (755.82 k), p. 240 " Reports...",
the ovipositor is not visible in the dybka. Maybe a male too???

Male, but of a different species, possibly Saga ephippigera, and found in Montenegro.

Likes: 1

13.07.2012 12:59, DanMar

Male, but of a different species, possibly Saga ephippigera, and found in Montenegro.

Well, why efippigera? The saddle-shaped dybka for Montenegro is not given, but its finds are from southwestern Turkey and Israel. As for me so in the photo Saga hellenica.

Likes: 1

13.07.2012 13:58, Vlad Proklov

In Montenegro, it will be either natoliae or rammei.

Likes: 2

13.07.2012 16:34, Stas Shinkarenko

Here is a picture of a dybka with a tape measure for size estimation. And a photo of a "normal" female caught on June 16, which turned out to be affected by tachins.

Pictures:

IMG_8945.jpg — (80.55к)

IMG_8944.jpg — (381.63к)

13.07.2012 16:49, Penzyak

In Spain, there are definitely males of the steppe dybka.

13.07.2012 17:01, PVOzerski

I would suggest first comparing the tip of the abdomen of this "male" with the tips of the abdomen of males of other Sada species-especially for the presence of slates on the genital plate and teeth on the cerci. Unfortunately, I don't remember what it should look like in Saga, but for Tettigoniinae, everything is simple here.

It would be interesting to know more about taheen. I have read that sometimes dybki are infected with sarcophagids of the genus Blaesoxipha. At the same time, in Asian locusts (comparable in size to dybki), up to 30% of infected individuals survive after the parasite exits. Or was there multiple infections?

This post was edited by PVOzerski - 13.07.2012 17: 03

Likes: 2

13.07.2012 17:04, Dracus

Yes, they are more often found in Europe. In Switzerland ,for example (namely Saga pedo).

Likes: 1

13.07.2012 17:06, PVOzerski

Do Swiss and other male finds accurately relate to pedo?

13.07.2012 17:07, Stas Shinkarenko

Likes: 1

13.07.2012 17:13, Dracus

Do Swiss and other male finds accurately relate to pedo?

It's hard to say what other species they might belong to so far north. Here is their photo from Orthoptera of Europe (clickable):

user posted image

Likes: 3

13.07.2012 17:16, PVOzerski

Now look at the cerci and elytra in this photo.

Likes: 1

13.07.2012 17:22, Dracus

I think we should wait for the molting of the discussed instance.

15.07.2012 22:26, DanMar

It seems to me that the specimen under discussion is already an adult-look at the rudiments of wings and elytra - in adult dybok they are identical to this patient.

18.07.2012 17:03, Penzyak

I wonder if you put this male and an ordinary female from your area side by side (through a metal net or something - otherwise the female will still take it and eat it) in the insectarium... how will they behave towards each other???

18.07.2012 22:48, DanMar

"it looks like we need direct contact on the idea.

19.07.2012 9:52, Penzyak

.. I think a woman can easily eat it - preferably while communicating through a dense grid that they can not chew through... and how to ignite, let to the body...

23.07.2012 18:09, Stas Shinkarenko

There was almost no doubt that it was a female. Dybka travels with me in all the expeditions, we have already traveled more than 1500 km. My appetite is good. Recently, the insect began to show attempts to lay eggs and stick the "phantom" ovipositor in the bottom of the cage. At the same time, all movements are made as if the ovipositor is in place, but, of course, nothing happens.

Likes: 3

01.09.2012 9:07, Penzyak

... what kind of problems, I would pour sand into the cage-the main thing is whether there will be eggs or not... How did it end???

01.09.2012 16:25, Stas Shinkarenko

How did it end???

The female is, laid several eggs.

Likes: 1

02.09.2012 2:48, DanMar

The female laid several eggs.

I told

you . In general, how did it turn out to take out the eggs outside - the ovipositor was glued there, the hole was already there?

This post was edited by DanMar - 02.09.2012 02: 49

02.09.2012 18:58, Stas Shinkarenko