Help me figure it out: what happens to the wine hawk moth pupa?

I do not know about the wine hawk moth, but many species do not come out of pupae so quickly. They should be kept in the refrigerator at least until March-April. Most likely, it will come out of you, but you don't know when. Maybe closer to spring. Superdiapause in the wine hawk moth is extremely unlikely. Keep it at room temperature simply. If you put it in the refrigerator, then it will normally winter there further, if it is in diapause. But if it has already begun to develop, then at a low temperature it will die. In other ways, it seems difficult to kill the pupa of this species - it is very unpretentious.
By the way, 40 days is not such a long time. Normally, they lie for 20-25 days, if you pull them out of the refrigerator in the spring without any smooth temperature rises.

How difficult it is, I just put my pupae in the refrigerator in the fall and didn't worry until December, forgetting about them, then I pulled them out and just waited, not spraying anyone...

In nature, wine hawks fly not from April-May, but from the end of June, so the butterfly "has no right" to go out so early...

Andrey, thank you for your information! You know, I got information from various sources about the December release of butterflies from the pupa. As explained, you should wait for April-March if you are engaged in breeding butterflies and it is important for you that the female lays eggs. And so - you can get a butterfly in December. However, she will live less.
Thank you very much again!

This post was edited by Zavjalova Olga - 27.01.2009 22: 41

How difficult it is, I just put my pupae in the refrigerator in the fall and didn't worry until December, forgetting about them, then I pulled them out and just waited, not spraying anyone...

)) well, if you have experience. This is the first time I decided on such an experiment. Knowing almost nothing. But this is the first interesting observation for me: I always thought that the pupa is hard and motionless. But it turned out: no. It is soft to the touch and mobile. The first time it even jumped out of my hands like a maggot!!!
Thank you for sharing your experience!

  )) well, if you have experience. This is the first time I decided on such an experiment. Knowing almost nothing. But this is the first interesting observation for me: I always thought that the pupa is hard and motionless. But it turned out: no. It is soft to the touch and mobile. The first time it even jumped out of my hands like a maggot!!!
Thank you for sharing your experience!

Yeah! Some pupae can quickly rotate around their own axis, while others can crawl. Many can turn over on different sides while developing. One of my pupae can even "squeak"! But some pupae are really hard and immobile.

My pupae of swallowtail and polyxena nifiga were not displayed until spring when they were taken out of the wintering area (refrigerator) in January and February (I tried it more than once). Apparently, they have some kind of internal "clock" and simply cannot be deceived by the temperature.
If anyone has experience of artificial termination of diapause - I will be grateful for the info.

Pupae definitely have an internal clock. Many people come out exactly on time, and it's not clear what the problem is. For example, the caterpillars of some owls feed in early spring, then estivate until August, after which they pupate and butterflies come out in September. The caterpillars of other owls estivate only for one month (from April to May), then pupate and lie down; they come out only in September.
You can find out more about removing the product without a diapause here:
http://www.seminarium.narod.ru/moip/lib/en...l/diapauza.html

Hello Vladimir.
Thank you for the reference, familiar work.
The question is not how to prevent diapause, but how to get out of it ahead of time. The same swallowtail (and a bunch of other species) easily goes into diapause when the day length is less than the threshold, but removing butterflies from pupae ahead of time is an industrial problem...

I got a hawk moth pupa a couple of days ago, maybe it will come out of diapause.. more precisely, the abdomen is already moving, but whether it will come out earlier is not appropriate..

I have repeatedly brought out swallowtails from the pupa in winter, I saw the same ones from my friends, and this was also written on the forum, look for a topic about the swallowtail somewhere in the images of insects.

Pupae definitely have an internal clock. Many people come out exactly on time, and it's not clear what the problem is. For example, the caterpillars of some owls feed in early spring, then estivate until August, after which they pupate and butterflies come out in September. The caterpillars of other owls estivate only for one month (from April to May), then pupate and lie down; they come out only in September.
You can find out more about removing the product without a diapause here:
http://www.seminarium.narod.ru/moip/lib/en...l/diapauza.html

Thank you so much for the information and for the most interesting and very useful link!

I have repeatedly brought out swallowtails from the pupa in winter, I saw the same ones from my friends, and this was also written on the forum, look for a topic about the swallowtail somewhere in the images of insects.

Thank you for your attention and help!

I got a hawk moth pupa a couple of days ago, maybe it will come out of diapause.. more precisely, the abdomen is already moving, but whether it will come out earlier is not appropriate..

As I understood, after reading the answers of specialists, the main thing is not to lose hope

Alexander Alexandrovich,
I joked temka, found it... it describes the March breeding...and this is already a common thing...however, maybe I missed another topic? I only found two...
If not a burden, describe the experience of breeding swallowtail in winter.

As I understood, after reading the answers of specialists, the main thing is not to lose hope

My friends once bred an average wine hawk moth. The butterfly was released at the end of May. So - wait for

My friends once bred an average wine hawk moth. The butterfly was released at the end of May. So-wait

thank you very much!

I have elpenor repeatedly displayed in the winter without any diapause, absolutely normal individuals turned out. But with sailboats - another story: without diapause, half of the individuals turn out to be freaks with underdeveloped wings, etc.

Yes, what a special experience: I diapaused a swallowtail pupa in the refrigerator at +2-+3 degrees, got it in January, after 2-3 weeks a normal butterfly was hatched, a copy is in my collection

I don't have a damn thing like that. Lie until spring and no goo-goo.

I remember that at the beginning of my passion for entomology, a swallowtail hatched in the middle of winter. The pupa was standing in a jar on the window in the room. I'd never heard of any diapause before

This post was edited by Bad Den - 29.01.2009 10: 57

In 1974 (I remember exactly, since the entries in the observation diary were preserved) I was feeding a Cerura vinula caterpillar in the summer. She successfully pupated and lay there until the spring of 1976, when a completely normal butterfly was hatched. At the same time, the cage with the pupa was just in the apartment at room temperature.

Since childhood, he bred moths from pupae, and always "shortened" their winter, and butterflies were mostly bred in winter. But ... having several pieces of each species, I often got butterflies with a difference of up to 2 months, this mainly concerned hawkmoth.
It remained in my memory that the wine hawk moth was displayed "from any position": both after the refrigerator, and after the street, and without a room in the cold, and in winter, and in spring, etc. Once I forgot to take the pupa out of the refrigerator, I remembered only in the fall - I still hatched. An exceptionally viable animal.
And Cerura vinula, like Dmitrich, did the same "feints". With A. pavonia, there was a case when the remaining pupae were placed in the refrigerator for the second time in the same winter. The butterflies were hatched, but they had problems with color.

Since childhood, he bred moths from pupae, and always "shortened" their winter, and butterflies were mostly bred in winter. But ... having several pieces of each species, I often got butterflies with a difference of up to 2 months, this mainly concerned hawkmoth.
It remained in my memory that the wine hawk moth was displayed "from any position": both after the refrigerator, and after the street, and without a room in the cold, and in winter, and in spring, etc. Once I forgot to take the pupa out of the refrigerator, I remembered only in the fall - I still hatched. An exceptionally viable animal.
And Cerura vinula, like Dmitrich, did the same "feints". With A. pavonia, there was a case when the remaining pupae were placed in the refrigerator for the second time in the same winter. The butterflies were hatched, but they had problems with color.

Thank you very much. No smart book can teach you what you can learn from another person's personal experience. Thank you for taking the time to share.

In 1974 (I remember exactly, since the entries in the observation diary were preserved) I was feeding a Cerura vinula caterpillar in the summer. She successfully pupated and lay there until the spring of 1976, when a completely normal butterfly was hatched. At the same time, the cage with the pupa was just in the apartment at room temperature.

Fantastic! I wonder if 2 years is the norm or an anomaly for these butterflies?

Can I ask you another question?
What does the pupa's motor activity indicate (if any)?

Can I ask you another question?
What does the pupa's motor activity indicate (if any)?

About her being alive

About her being alive

Well, I got to this point by asking because initially, when I pulled it out, it was a little smaller, a lot harder, kind of shrunken and completely still. And after 3 weeks, the movement began. Therefore, there is a dynamic. But I see that I incorrectly interpreted this dynamic )))

This is generally great news .when the pupa moves after 3 weeks, it is likely to come out soon.

This is generally great news .when the pupa moves after 3 weeks, it is likely to come out soon.

THANK YOU FOR THE GREAT NEWS!!!!

It is better not to take the pupa in your hands once again, and also-shortly before the butterfly leaves, the segments of the pupa's abdomen stretch out, and you get the impression that it has become larger. And the twigs must be in the cage, so that the butterfly can climb and spread its wings.

It is better not to take the pupa in your hands once again, and also-shortly before the butterfly leaves, the segments of the pupa's abdomen stretch out, and you get the impression that it has become larger. And the twigs must be in the cage, so that the butterfly can climb and spread its wings.

Thank you for telling me! And then every day I take it in my hands, look at the light: has the development begun?, and it has already learned to jump out of my hands. And so clever!

Instead of twigs, I hung strips of newspaper about 2-3 cm wide all over the garden. This was recommended in the manual: they said that twigs can sometimes damage the wings. I don't know if I did the right thing.

Thank you so much for your help!

Will a butterfly get up from the newspaper? it is better to use gauze...

Will a butterfly get up from the newspaper? it is better to use gauze...

You know, I'll try to hang up the gauze and leave the newspapers. What he chooses. Or is it going to be a lot of stuff? What do you think?

I usually make gauze completely on the walls, then just one layer of gauze over the entire surface, slightly sinking to the bottom, it is convenient for butterflies to climb up and they spread their wings freely.
Branches can get in the way when there are a lot of butterflies (i.e. pupae), when there is only one butterfly-I think this is not a problem.

This post was edited by AntSkr - 30.01.2009 21: 34

Thank you for telling me! And then every day I take it in my hands, look at the light: has the development begun?, and it has already learned to jump out of my hands. And so clever!

I don't know about hawkmoth, but in pigeons, shortly before the butterfly leaves, the pupae become very fragile, they are easily damaged. Also, I don't think daily worry has a positive effect on your baby pupa. So I think it's best not to disturb her.
Gauze hung on the walls, I think a great option. I used to do that for pigeons. They didn't always find their wands in time.

I usually make gauze completely on the walls, then just one layer of gauze over the entire surface, slightly sinking to the bottom, it is convenient for butterflies to climb up and they spread their wings freely.
Branches can get in the way when there are a lot of butterflies (i.e. pupae), when there is only one butterfly-I think this is not a problem.

I'll hang it tomorrow. Thank you for your advice!

I don't know about hawkmoth, but in pigeons, shortly before the butterfly leaves, the pupae become very fragile, they are easily damaged. Also, I don't think daily worry has a positive effect on your baby pupa. So I think it's best not to disturb her.
Gauze hung on the walls, I think a great option. I used to do that for pigeons. They didn't always find their wands in time.

I REALLY hope I didn't do anything to her. To be honest, I've been restless all evening. After all, since August, as soon as I found the larva, every day I dream of photographing its cilia (this hawk moth has wonderful eyes with long cilia). Oh, this is my curiosity! I watch the pupa both in the morning and in the evening. I hold it up to the lamp to see if the already formed butterfly is showing through. Yes, ignorance can make a mess of things.

THANK you, Vladimir Vitalievich, for warning us.

I REALLY hope I didn't do anything to her.

I'm sure your baby pupa is fine.
According to my observation, a decrease in pupal activity can be a sign that a butterfly has already begun to form in it. In addition, pupae usually gradually darken as they develop. In many species of pupae, in the last days before the butterfly leaves, wings and eyes begin to be seen through the pupal covers. But it can be clearly seen and just in daylight through the glass of the jar. The shell of such pupae becomes fragile and easily damaged. If at the moment your pupa has a light (not too dark) color, then the butterfly is still far away.
It should also be borne in mind that even with proper care, not all pupae turn into butterflies, some, unfortunately, die. Therefore, to increase your chances of seeing a butterfly, you should grow several caterpillars if possible. This activity is very exciting, I grew butterflies of various families, but mainly scoops, pigeons and mottles.
Some information on finding and growing caterpillars is available on the site http://www.macrolepidoptera.ru/
Photo pygmy hawk moth pupae before the butterfly leaves, it is noticeable that the "wings" have darkened, but the ventral part is lighter. This is due to the fact that there is an already developed butterfly inside, and its abdomen inside has already separated from the pupal shell.

This post was edited by okoem - 31.01.2009 07: 59