Identification of Hymenoptera (wasps, bees, ants)

Community and Forum → Insects identification → Identification of Hymenoptera (wasps, bees, ants)

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03.03.2015 10:55, AVA

Completely confused. Did you combine all the bees into one family or not? Domestic bee specialists Astafurova and Proshchalykin persistently write Hymenoptera: Apoidea: Halictidae in their works for the past 2014

Never mind. You don't do taxonomy of higher taxa on purpose, do you?

The attitude of specialists to higher-order taxa is purely subjective.
I discussed this topic with both Maxim and Yulia and came to the conclusion that for now apidologists are simply more comfortable using the traditional bee system, which is based on the latest revision of their patriarch, Charles Michener. During his lifetime, almost no one dares to radically encroach on his point of view (publications of some Brazilians, even if they are students of the same Michener, apidologists are not in a hurry to take into account yet).
The fact is that modern systems of supergeneric taxa are mainly based on the results of cladistic analysis, which patriarchs traditionally, and often due to inertia, are very skeptical about. The same thing happened with Richard Bohart , a wasp heavyweight, after whose departure the apparently outdated system of burrowing oss as a single family was immediately revised. The same thing, but in the opposite direction, happened, for example, with the "superfamilies" of scolias, pompils, and ants, which organically and without problems "fit" into the superfamily Vespoidea.
May God grant Michener a long time to live - he is an excellent specialist and a very pleasant person to talk to. But this fall, he'll be 97, and time is running out. Wait another five years and see how the bee system will change. After all, the results of cladistic analysis clearly demonstrate that all the current" families " of bees, taken together, barely pull at the level of one of the families of burrowing wasps (more specifically, Crabronidae, they stand much further from others). By and large, bees are crabrodids with herbivorous larvae. But aren't there other families like Crabronidae or Vespidae?

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03.03.2015 16:50, алекс 2611

Do you want (in confidence) an unusual idea?
Only species really exist, and everything else is from the Evil One.
We (taxonomists) combine all the species known to us or divide them into some groups, but, by and large, all this is just for convenience and not to get confused in the diversity.
Therefore, the word "correct" is not very applicable here.

Why unusual? In principle, this has already been discussed.
Evil tongues out there talk that the concept of a species is an abstraction, but in reality there is only a single individual (like somewhere on the forum they talked about this). But since we divide species into certain groups, we want a certain division that is generally accepted by most specialists. Are bees divided into several families? Good. Are they part of the same family? Let's take this option. Are they part of the Crabronidae family as a subfamily? Quite well. I just want to talk to everyone in the same language. Otherwise you will say the family Apidae, meaning one thing, and I will think about the other.

03.03.2015 16:51, AVA

It's just that everyone is more used to having bees in different families. Therefore, it may be misunderstood if, for example, the name Apidae or Halictinae is used in other meanings. When most of them switch, I'll use one too...

No, not all of them. It is only the bee hives who are reluctant to accept the obvious.

Well, they want to dykat, and not nykat-on health.

There were times when all burrowing wasps were divided not into 4 modern ones (in fact, there are only 3 of them), but already into 11 separate families. Echoes of that tradition of the late 19th and early 20th centuries can be seen even in the fundamental survey of hymenopteran families of the world's fauna. So what? Everything comes to a logical conclusion.

By the way, are you very concerned about the current systematic position of single folded-winged wasps or the same flower wasps?

03.03.2015 17:02, AVA

Why unusual? In principle, this has already been discussed.
Evil tongues out there talk that the concept of a species is an abstraction, but in reality there is only a single individual (like somewhere on the forum they talked about this). But since we divide species into certain groups, we want a certain division that is generally accepted by most specialists. Are bees divided into several families? Good. Are they part of the same family? Let's take this option. Are they part of the Crabronidae family as a subfamily? Quite well. I just want to talk to everyone in the same language. Otherwise you will say the family Apidae, meaning one thing, and I will think about the other.

Well, I mentioned the reasons for disagreements a little earlier. They are all subjective.
Bee coops believe that some donkey coops are not a decree for them. Especially when you can hide behind a live classic. But this is only a temporary brake on progress.
Donkeys and even marts were more advanced, accepting the obvious almost without a fight. And this is only for the benefit of the common cause.

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