Pieris (napi - bryoniae) complex: current status of the taxon

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Thank you so much, Stanislav! for your clarification. It turns out that in Kamchatka, Pies napi kamtschadalus Röber, 1907.
Can I find out the source?
Another question: Korshunov and Tuzov have kamtschada lis, and in the above work kamtschada lus, how is it correct?

This post was edited by AGG - 07.11.2011 11: 04

Korb S. K., Bolshakov L. V. 2011. Catalog of club-whiskered Lepidoptera (Lepidoptera: Papilionoformis) of the former USSR. Second edition, revised and supplemented / / Eversmannia. 2. 124 p.

And correctly kamtschadalis!

And that's right kamtschadalis!

the list of errors and typos noticed after publication will soon be published on the pages of Eversmannia. with such a large amount of work, they are, alas, inevitable.

Why don't you check for errors and typos before publishing your work? Or you are in favor of increasing the list of your works due to " Corrections to...", " Additions to ...""Changes to ..."?

Why don't you check for errors and typos before publishing your work? Or you are in favor of increasing the list of your works due to " Corrections to...", " Additions to ...""Changes to ..."?

So bad job! And the quality should not suffer from the volume. Or do you only care about volume?

The one who does nothing is not mistaken.

Everything must be done in such a way that this well-worn phrase, used exclusively by loafers, is never used!

Everything must be done in such a way that this well-worn phrase, used exclusively by loafers, is never used!

Tom Edison made 10,000 mistakes before he created the light bulb. Idler, chetam

And you can also point out the Lord God, who has repeatedly made mistakes in creating this world!

You just need to take your work more seriously. That's it!

And you can also point to the Lord God, who has repeatedly made mistakes in creating this world!

His biggest mistake was creating a human. But this is the lyrics.

And the hard truth of life is that there are no big jobs without mistakes. And it seems that they will not be soon. Tuzov's books of 1997 and 2000 are full of mistakes, the catalog edited by Sinev is also not without them, the books of Lvovsky and Morgun, etc., etc. I personally use them with great pleasure and great benefit.

There is such a fun phenomenon in magnetic data recording - phantom error - a reading error that occurs regardless of the quality of data recording and the error correction mechanisms used. But the most interesting thing is that the more bytes of data are written, the more often such errors occur. I think this is also quite applicable to a person's mental activity (especially memory).

You just need to take your work more seriously. That's all!

Undoubtedly, this is true. But again: who makes no mistakes, makes nothing.

The message was edited rhopalocera.com - 08.11.2011 01: 33

Up to you.

I can always be a friend
Or I can be a stranger
It is up to you
I can always understand

Thank you so much, Stanislav! for your clarification. It turns out that in Kamchatka, Pies napi kamtschadalus Röber, 1907.
Can I find out the source?
Another question: Korshunov and Tuzov have kamtschada lis, and in the above work kamtschada lus, how is it correct?

yes, that's right-kamtschadalis.

and where and at what price can you buy this work? does Sviridov have this issue for sale?

Tom Edison made 10,000 mistakes before he created the light bulb. Idler, chetam

Gentlemen, let's be honest. The light bulb was invented by (my fellow countryman) Alexander Nikolaevich Lodygin, and Edison, having read his works, simply spread this topic

Gentlemen, let's be honest. The light bulb was invented by (my fellow countryman) Alexander Nikolaevich Lodygin, and Edison, having read his works, simply promoted this topic

Desperately fludya, but still. "In reality, everything is not as it really is" (c).

Desperately fludya, but still. "In reality, everything is not as it really is" (c).

this phrase is not a flood, it is very well suited for discussing napi-bryoniae complex

2AGG
on the topic there is such a work

Many thanks Oleg! I'll look for it... even the title is like the theme of the truth with 83 a lot of water flowed, inhuman experiments on hybridization and chemistry
can I draw conclusions in 2 words? and then I don't shprehayu, and while the book will find a lot of time will pass
PS it's good that the topic is back on track

Desperately fludya, but still. "In reality, everything is not as it really is" (c).

Don't believe the WIKI ! The Pendoz heresy! and I have a cast-steel sign next to my house, although it doesn't shed any light on napi-brione

and where and at what price can you buy this work? does Sviridov have this issue for sale?

At the Lavra of Bolshakov. l. bol2012(mumuka)yandex.ru

2AGG
on the topic there is such a work

There is. 2 volumes. Ulf the maniac-how much to draw :D.

Stanislav, do you know if the library of the Moscow State University Zoo Museum has this work (Ulf)?

Don't know. But probably not. There are also raznousovym engaged mainly. But I have it.

Your interpretation is clear to me

This year, I took a female P. (napi) bryoniae to see how raising caterpillars in low-mountain conditions would affect the phenotype at relatively high temperatures. He has reared about a dozen caterpillars on the garlic petiole (Alliaria petiolata). Common snakes often feed on this plant. Both caterpillars and pupae turned out to be almost indistinguishable from a typical rutabaga, but the butterflies did not come out of the pupae and will spend the winter, although they pupated in the second half of August. Our napi at this time quite calmly give the next generation.
21.07.2011, North Caucasus, upper Kuban, Makhar River gorge, 1,900 m above sea level.


11.08.2011, Pyatigorsk

11.08.2011, Pyatigorsk

21.08.2011 Pyatigorsk

In the book on butterflies of Turkey (Hesselbart et al., 1995), where P. bryoniae is considered a good species with two subspecies, it is written that this species produces one generation per year. My experience confirms this.
I very much doubt that the bryoniae taxon can be considered a subspecies when its populations are scattered over different isolated territories.
I can't say that this is an independent species, although I have twice observed that butterflies with different phenotypes meet together. This fact is known and described in the same book on the butterflies of Turkey.
I haven't seen any articles on genetics. Surely there is. Can someone tell me?

This post was edited by Valentinus - 10.11.2011 18: 31

Your interpretation is clear to me

That is 80. -?

Valentine, thank you so much for the info! right now my dry sfotkayu-lay out. but I just want to make a reservation the males are the same, and the females are different on the upper side, there are densely darkened, and there are light ones, like ours=Central Russian napi

That is 80.-?

This is not my interpretation. I bought a much more expensive neyuzanuyu.

The message was edited rhopalocera.com - 10.11.2011 18: 53

This year, I took a female P. (napi) bryoniae to see how raising caterpillars in low-mountain conditions would affect the phenotype at relatively high temperatures. He has reared about a dozen caterpillars on the garlic petiole (Alliaria petiolata). Common snakes often feed on this plant. Both caterpillars and pupae turned out to be almost indistinguishable from a typical rutabaga, but the butterflies did not come out of the pupae and will spend the winter, although they pupated in the second half of August. Our napi at this time quite calmly give the next generation.
21.07.2011, North Caucasus, upper Kuban, Makhar River gorge, 1,900 m above sea level.


11.08.2011, Pyatigorsk

11.08.2011, Pyatigorsk

21.08.2011 Pyatigorsk

In the book on butterflies of Turkey (Hesselbart et al., 1995), where P. bryoniae is considered a good species with two subspecies, it is written that this species produces one generation per year. My experience confirms this.
I very much doubt that the bryoniae taxon can be considered a subspecies when its populations are scattered over different isolated territories.
I can't say that this is an independent species, although I have twice observed that butterflies with different phenotypes meet together. This fact is known and described in the same book on the butterflies of Turkey.
I haven't seen any articles on genetics. Surely there is. Can someone tell me?

The napi-bryoniae problem comes from the concept of superspecies. In general (in my purely subjective opinion), to get involved in any kind of "over -, semi-or under-species" in the taxonomy is tantamount to burying the group system. Especially if you use a philatelic approach to solve the problems of determination. The solution is quite simple: there is a species, there is something that is smaller than the species (population or conglomerate of populations-subspecies) and something that is larger than the species (genus). Everything else is from the evil one (and in many ways from cladistics).

Arguments about super-species, refugia, and so on can lead a taxonomist very far. But the most unpleasant thing is that they will not help you solve the problem, and they will leave you with more questions than they will give you answers. Simple and reliable criteria should work: reproductive isolation, fertility of hybrids, the presence of reliable characters for distinguishing taxa (and not necessarily in adults!), etc. P. napi and P. bryoniae are a classic example of adaptations of one species to the climatic conditions of mountains and plains, described repeatedly in the literature.

no need to distort and even more so me implicate Mr. Proctos. You posted as soon as you understood. let's not flood! "Your interpretation..." - referred to the taxon and the book at ZMMSU. and if someone wants to measure something, then create the corresponding temu

I haven't seen any articles on genetics. Surely there is. Can someone tell me?

The genetics are quite strange, as if there are two types of napi.
Cladogram from Dinca et al, 2010. Complete DNA barcode reference library for a country’s butterfly fauna reveals high performance for temperate Europe

Pictures:

NJ__Baum_Romanien.jpg — (108.2к)

again, it is clear that nothing is clear and in fact the person wanted from the life of a small one-to determine the butterfly

Thank you Boris Vitalyevich!
And here are the comments from the same paper:
"DNA barcoding: 27 of the 29 specimens examined formed two clades with a minimum
interspecific divergence of 1.85% (fig. S8). However, two specimens identified as P. napi,
which could actually represent hybrids, (fig. S6a,h) clustered with P. bryoniae. Although P.
bryoniae has not been recorded from the area where they were collected (the base of the
Domogled Mountain, Pecinișca), it is known to occur between ca. 900-1700 m in the
mountains situated about 50 km to the north (Retezat) (Rákosy 1997). However, it could
occur much nearer as the whole area is connected by peaks of more than 1000 m. Even the
area of the Domogled Mountain, which reaches 1000 m, hosts several mountainous species
such as Aricia artaxerxes (Fabricius, 1793), Erebia ligea (Linnaeus, 1758), Erebia euryale
(Esper, 1805), Erebia melas (Herbst, 1796).
Comments: Pieris bryoniae is a taxon with controversial status. Recently, it is most often
treated as a distinct species, but also as a subspecies of P. napi (e.g. Higgins et al. 1991;
Gorbunov 2001). Studies based on enzyme electrophoretic approaches pointed out the high
similarity between the two taxa (e.g. Geiger & Scholl 1985; Geiger 1990). The two taxa
are known to hybridize regularly where their ranges contact (Geiger & Shapiro 1992;
Porter & Geiger 1995; Porter 1997; Descimon & Mallet 2009)."