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Hesperiidae

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22.01.2014 19:34, rhopalocera.com

Sergey, according to your father-in-law Sergey Andreev, this is Pyrgus speyeri Stgr.

Without a doubt, this is
speyeri Below the photo of the lectotype: D

[attachmentid()=192077]

[attachmentid()=192078]

Likes: 2

23.01.2014 11:40, Геннадий Шембергер

T.hyrax. C.orientalis.

Pictures:
picture: DSCN1153.JPG

DSCN1153.JPG — (292.8к)

picture: DSCN1154.JPG

DSCN1154.JPG — (302.33к)

Likes: 7

23.01.2014 14:17, Sergey Rybalkin

Without a doubt, this is
speyeri Below the photo of the lectotype: D

It is not a fact that it is not Pyrgus schansiensis Reverdin, 1915, because this specimen is much larger than P. speyeri, with a wingspan of 34 mm!

23.01.2014 15:05, cleobis@mail.ru cleobis@mail.ru

Valentine, thank you!
Is there really no key difference between serratulae and alveus other than cooking the genitals?

About the Cuban fatheads.
And please take a look at the Far East, your opinion ?

Pictures:
picture: talus.jpg

talus.jpg — (302.07к)

picture: Hesperiidae_Cuba.jpg

Hesperiidae_Cuba.jpg — (314.1к)

picture: Cuba.jpg

Cuba.jpg — (304.2к)

picture: Hesper_Cuba.jpg

Hesper_Cuba.jpg — (299.7к)

picture: DSCN4274ed.jpg

DSCN4274ed.jpg — (293.63к)

picture: DSCN4273ed.jpg

DSCN4273ed.jpg — (289.58к)

Likes: 2

23.01.2014 22:43, Kharkovbut

And please take a look at the Far East, your opinion ?

And what to look at it? P. malvae - it is P. malvae...

Likes: 1

24.01.2014 9:24, Sergey Rybalkin

Sergey, according to your father-in-law Sergey Andreev, this is Pyrgus speyeri Stgr.

Valentine, and if teska is informed that the wingspan of my Far Eastern thickhead is 34 mm! And it's bigger than Pyrgus speyeri, maybe he'll change his mind?

31.01.2014 15:56, Valentinus

Valentine, and if teska is informed that the wingspan of my Far Eastern thickhead is 34 mm! And it's bigger than Pyrgus speyeri, maybe he'll change his mind?

The size didn't surprise him.
You can write to him: <s.andreev56собакаyandex.ru>

Likes: 1

23.04.2014 19:31, Valentinus

Here is a picture from Sergey Andreev.
Male Pyrgus schansiensis Reverdin 1915

картинка: Pyrgus_schansiensis_Reverdin._1915.________________________17.07.1996..jpg

Likes: 5

23.04.2014 20:40, rhopalocera.com

Here is a picture from Sergey Andreev.
Male Pyrgus schansiensis Reverdin 1915

Synonym of Pyrgus alveus sifanicus

[attachmentid()=197625]

04.07.2014 18:11, vasiliy-feoktistov

Carcharodus floccifera (Zeller, 1847)
20.06.2014 Vladimir region, Petushinsky district, district, village Starye Omutischi, "in years". leg. Feoktistov V. I.

Male
picture: carcharodus_male_up.jpg

Female

Likes: 8

14.12.2014 21:04, Sergey Rybalkin

Even before the heap

Carcharodus flocciferus
and
Pyrgus cinarae males left and females right

Pictures:
picture: DSC02297.jpg

DSC02297.jpg — (410.08к)

picture: DSC02298.jpg

DSC02298.jpg — (411.22к)

picture: DSC02290.jpg

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picture: DSC02294.jpg

DSC02294.jpg — (531.8к)

Likes: 9

15.12.2014 15:55, Sergey Rybalkin

In labels, the typo is not July, but jun

25.02.2015 12:17, Valentinus

Did you post a picture of this fathead called Pyrgus alveus in your travel reports?.
10.07.2014 Mount Ararat, Turkey.
picture: 1.jpg

Evgeny Karolinsky (Kharkovbut)wrote that it is more likely a serratula.
I looked at my genitals yesterday.
It's really Pyrgus alveus.

Likes: 5

25.02.2015 13:01, Alexandr Zhakov

I looked at my genitals yesterday.

Can we also take a look (if possible)?

Likes: 2

01.03.2015 13:31, Valentinus

Can we also take a look (if possible)?

The image is not very good, but it is suitable for identification.
картинка: Pyrgus_alveus_Turkey_Male_Genitalia.jpg

Likes: 4

01.03.2015 14:09, Kharkovbut

The image isn't very good, but it's suitable for identification purposes.

And the female didn't cook? Actually, in the picture in nature, it is the female, and it is she who bears some external signs of serratulae (I would never say this about the male, but it was not shown

). Of course, it is most natural to assume that this is a single view. But...

01.03.2015 15:01, Valentinus

Yes, the picture shows a live female butterfly. Below, she is paired with a male straightened.
I have no doubt that this pair is.

02.03.2015 9:28, Valentinus

Warm-up session.
Who can guess what kind of view?
picture: Pyrgus_Akhalkalaki.jpg

02.03.2015 14:25, Kharkovbut

Warm-up session.
Who can guess what kind of view?

Maybe cirsii?

02.03.2015 23:06, Valentinus

Maybe cirsii?

What can I say?
Zhenya is well-versed in identifying species. Respect!!!
To my shame, I didn't know what it was right away.
When I saw it in nature, I thought it was such a bright armoricanus, but when I spread it out, doubts crept in.
I cooked it and couldn't believe my eyes - the genitals of the serratulae type, but this can't be happening!? I began to look at the literature and found in the butterflies of Turkey-Pyrgus (carlinae) cirsii, although there are no genitals there.
By the way, we must pay tribute to Pavel Gorbunov, who first posted this view on the forum.
Well, my pictures.
Pyrgus carlinae
picture: Pyrgus_carlinae_Genitalia_m.jpg

picture: Pyrgus_carlinae_Genitalia_m.jpg

Pyrgus serratulae
picture: Purgus_serratulae_Genitalia_male_m.jpg

New species for Georgian fauna

Likes: 2

02.03.2015 23:40, Kharkovbut

I began to look at the literature and found in the butterflies of Turkey-Pyrgus (carlinae) cirsii, although there are no genitals there.

Valentine, are these his genitals? And serratulae-for comparison?

I wonder what the" correct " name for this taxon is. Apparently, this is turcivola? De Jong identifies cirsii as a separate (from carlinae) "half-species", and assigns Turkish to cirsii. And many authors merge everything into carlinae. The differences in the male genitalia in carlinae and cirsii are minimal, and it is not very clear from de Jong's drawings what these genitalia are closer to.

A revision of Pyrgus involving molecular methods is very lacking.

Likes: 1

03.03.2015 6:09, Valentinus

Valentine, are these his genitals? And serratulae-for comparison?

I wonder what the" correct " name for this taxon is. Apparently, this is turcivola? De Jong identifies cirsii as a separate (from carlinae) "half-species", and assigns Turkish to cirsii. And many authors merge everything into carlinae. The differences in the male genitalia in carlinae and cirsii are minimal, and it is not very clear from de Jong's drawings what these genitalia are closer to.

A revision of Pyrgus involving molecular methods is very lacking.

The genitals of the Turkish serratuli were given for comparison.
I do not know exactly what to call this taxon, but since the semivid is in the past, it is Pyrgus carlinae. If in the Trinomain, then probably P. carlinae turcicola, since cirsii is a European isolated taxon.
In "Butterflies of Turkey", the authors refer to Alberti, 1969, which did not differ from cirsii.
Let's wait. Maybe someone will do genetics.

Likes: 3

30.03.2015 17:55, Valentinus

Maybe someone knows why some fatheads take this pose?

picture: 1.jpg

Likes: 2

30.03.2015 21:04, Kharkovbut

Maybe someone knows why some fatheads take this pose?

What "such"? Front wings at an angle, rear wings parallel to the substrate? Almost all Hesperiinae (and only they) accept it. And why? Teanz oge otk a...

Isn't this a question in the style of "why is the water wet" (or "what does Uncle crocodile eat for lunch")?

But if there is a rational explanation , I will be glad to know.

Likes: 2

30.03.2015 22:41, Valentinus

Sexual behavior is eliminated because both males and females do the same.
The fast-start pose is also unlikely. In my opinion, they take off faster with folded wings.
Maybe this pose is a warm-up pose?
We need to watch.

30.03.2015 23:17, Kharkovbut

IMHO, this position in such thick-headed butterflies is a complete analogue of the" open-winged pose " in most other diurnal butterflies. From this point of view-yes, rather "warming up pose". At the same time, everyone knows that some butterflies (for example, Coliadinae) bask with folded wings, lying perpendicular to the sun's rays. Why not?

So I want to write: "so historically developed."..

I've somehow gotten so used to this fathead pose that it feels completely natural to me. As mathematicians sometimes say: "at first you don't understand, and then you get used to it" ...

Likes: 2

31.03.2015 13:09, Penzyak

Maybe this is a specific / generic feature? And it is more likely that in this place it is hot and high humidity...

This post was edited by Penzyak-31.03.2015 13: 12

Pictures:
picture: ___________________.jpg

___________________.jpg — (391.26к)

31.03.2015 13:49, Kharkovbut

Maybe this is a specific / generic feature? And it is more likely that in this place it is hot and high humidity...

This (characteristic pose ) is a feature of the whole subfamily. In what "this place" - it is not clear what is meant. The heat does not matter here (that is, if the temperature is too high, the butterfly simply will not open its wings, it will sit with folded ones).

31.03.2015 16:25, Penzyak

... the keyword is humidity.

31.03.2015 16:41, lepidopterolog

Obviously, this is due to the peculiarities of the functional morphology of the wing muscles and articular plates of the wing, and not because hawks just like to keep their wings spread out, and thick-headed birds-semi-flattened. In other words, it really "happened this way historically (evolutionarily)"

Likes: 1

31.03.2015 18:29, Valentinus

Obviously, this is due to the peculiarities of the functional morphology of the wing muscles and articular plates of the wing, and not because hawks just like to keep their wings spread out, and thick-headed birds-semi-flattened. In other words, it really "happened that way historically (evolutionarily)"

Well, also say that the Lord created them so and there is no need to break your head.
Functional morphology is functional because it performs functions.
I think that such a pose still fulfills some role, and not just "it happened that way".

31.03.2015 18:49, lepidopterolog

The main function is to ensure flight and the location of the wings in space corresponding to different "styles" of flight; and their position at rest is rather a consequence of anatomy. I would suggest that this position allows the fathead to start more easily from the leaf with a specific musculature configuration and flight style.

31.03.2015 19:04, Valentinus

Still, it seems to me that you are confusing cause and effect in places.
The resting position is not a consequence of the anatomical structure, but on the contrary-the pose determines the anatomy.
So, two versions of the functional meaning of such a pose in Hesperiinae
1. Quick start pose
2. The warm-up position
remains to be observed and recorded.

31.03.2015 20:26, Valentinus

Well, if you're not interested, why write this?

31.03.2015 20:45, bora

This is clearly not a warm-up position. The photos were taken in full cloud cover (no shadows) and very cool temperatures.

Pictures:
picture: lineola.jpg

lineola.jpg — (39.21к)

picture: sylvanus.jpg

sylvanus.jpg — (57.92к)

Likes: 2

31.03.2015 21:29, Valentinus

Just the same, with full clouds, they probably try to warm up. They, unlike us, see the sun through the clouds.

31.03.2015 21:32, Valentinus

So why do egg yolks sit with their wings" folded"?
Why is my question worse?

Zhenya has already written on this topic. Yolks warm up "in profile". They have no other poses. Pretty primitive.

31.03.2015 21:49, Valentinus

Of the behavioral features of thickheads, one more aspect is interesting. Previously, androconia on the legs of Pyrgus was discussed.
Other Pyrginae, such as Carcharodus, Muschampi, and Erynnis, are known to have a costal inversion with androconial scales.
Maybe someone watched them unfold it during mating games?

31.03.2015 22:36, Kharkovbut

Of the behavioral features of thickheads, one more aspect is interesting. Previously, androconia on the legs of Pyrgus was discussed.
Other Pyrginae, such as Carcharodus, Muschampi, and Erynnis, are known to have a costal inversion with androconial scales.
Maybe someone watched them unfold it during mating games?

Pyrgus also have a volvulus. (The spialii don't seem to have it.)

To expand - do not watch. I don't think they are literally deploying it. Perhaps, some mechanisms of smell release are simply activated at the moment of "courtship".

01.04.2015 13:32, Diogen

There was an article about this pose in the Journal of the Lepidotrerist's Society (as it seems to be called), authorship, in my opinion, of Brown. Now I don't remember in what number and year, but the fact that I saw such a tattoo is 100%.

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