Hesperiidae

Article E. Ilina and D. Morgun with a review of Hesperiidae et al. Of Dagestan.

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 Ilyina_Morgun_2010.pdf

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Here is my free translation of an essay from Hesselbart's book: ...Unlike proto aragonensis, proteides butterflies are different ... the color of the upper side is LIGHT brown ... the underside is more brick-red or tinted-sand

Based on the book "Mace-whiskered Lepidoptera". Europe" (Lvovsky and Morgun, 2007) M. proteides lives in the Crimea and in the South of Russia, which does not differ from M. proto in genitalia, but is distinguished by a lighter wing color

"Syrichtus proteides Wagn., 1929. Individuals differ from European ones by the darker background of the upper side of the wings... "(Ilyina, Morgun)

So what did Ilina and Morgun write? How can all this be correlated?

This post was edited by bora - 15.02.2011 09: 30

Pictures:

Ilyina_Morgun_____.jpg — (225.47к)

Dear colleagues!
To resolve the situation with the status of M. proto / proteides, please send 1-2 copies from different places to A. L. Devyatkin.
Here is his address: 11991, Moscow, Leninskie Gory, Lomonosov Moscow State University, Faculty of Biology, Department of Entomology, Devyatkin A. L.
I will send my copies from Dagestan in the near future.

In January, I looked at the collection of the Pet Museum of Kiev University, but, unfortunately, I did not deal with this problem. I will hope for the help of Igor Yuryevich Kostyuk.
Here are the first pictures of it:





The pictures show that the specimen from Castile is darker and matches the typical M. proto from Hesselbart's illustrations.
The specimens from Uralsk are much smaller than ours.

"Syrichtus proteides Wagn., 1929. Individuals differ from European ones by the darker background of the upper side of the wings... "(Ilyina, Morgun)

So what did Ilina and Morgun write? How can all this be correlated?

So and so it is...

In general, it is not clear which "European" ones are being compared here: Western European ("proto") or Eastern?

Dear friends, I can't decide on a female Pyrgus: Rostov region, Belokalitvensky district, Servilinsky quarry, 10.07.2005.

Pictures:

Pyrgus.jpg — (204.29к)

Dear friends, I can't decide on a female Pyrgus: Rostov region, Belokalitvensky district, Servilinsky quarry, 10.07.2005.

I would bet on Pyrgus armoricanus.
Drawing by Evgeny Tsvetkov (Saint-Peterbugr)

Here is the variability of P. armoricanus in the North-eastern Caucasus:

I myself thought about armoricanus, but armoricanus does not have any sclerotizations on the antrum - I cooked a lot of them and posted something on the forum. And this one has some symmetrical sections. And the color of the underparts is reddish, not olive. And the top spots are too big. Besides, I never met Armoricanus there during this period. It is either in May-June, or already in August, and this one is in early July.

This post was edited by bora - 27.02.2011 14: 06

Pictures:

armoricanus.jpg — (77.09к)

I myself thought about armoricanus, but armoricanus does not have any sclerotizations on the antrum - I cooked a lot of them and posted something on the forum. And this one has some symmetrical sections. And the color of the underparts is reddish, not olive. And the top spots are too big. Besides, I never met Armoricanus there during this period. It is either in May-June, or already in August, and this one is in early July.

Indeed, some sclerotized areas are observed...
We'll have to cook our own.
By the timing of the summer, I can say that armoricanus flies with us from the beginning of May to mid-October. Depending on the summer, 2-3 generations can develop in a year. Wagner (2009) writes that caterpillars of different ages can hibernate in this species, so the terms of generational summer overlap.
The reddish hue of the main background is an additional sign in favor of armoricanus.
Male: 31.07.2007, Dagestan, Samursky ridge, vicinity of the village. Rutul, 1300 m above sea level. m
. Samka: 15.07.2006, North Caucasus, Pyatigorsk neighborhood, Mount Yutsa.

The most inconvenient thing is that this specimen is alone - neither two weeks before, nor two weeks after July 10, during the collection period from 2004 to 2009, there are no other Pyrgus in that place, except for P. cinarae. if there was a male, it would be possible to determine, and such an antrum does not allow us to consider this specimen an armoricanus. Well, then, in general, attempts to find patterns in the genitals of females should be abandoned, as was already said about serratula / alveus on page 7 of the topic.

Dear friends, I can't decide on a female Pyrgus: Rostov region, Belokalitvensky district, Servilinsky quarry, 10.07.2005.

I look and look, and I think more and more: isn't this our Pyrgus cinarae? Unfortunately, I did not dissect them, but according to the pictures in the literature, it is she who has a slight sclerosis on the antrum. Quite similar to what is seen in this picture.

The armoricanuses I dissected were indeed without any sclerotization. (I hope it was the armoricanuses... )

In general, questions remain about the female's genitals... Not everything is clear to me, oh not everything...

The most inconvenient thing is that this specimen is alone - neither two weeks before, nor two weeks after July 10, during the collection period from 2004 to 2009, there are no other Pyrgus in that place, except for P. cinarae.

Just now I carefully read this message... well, all the more so! What's wrong with sinagae?

We'll have to cook our own.
Male: 31.07.2007, Dagestan, Samursky ridge, vicinity of the village. Rutul, 1300 m above sea level. m
. Samka: 15.07.2006, North Caucasus, Pyatigorsk neighborhood, Mount Yutsa.

IMHO, exactly what to cook, and then you never know what... (In a good way I envy: if only we had so many Pyrgus in the Kharkiv region... )

Just now I carefully read this message... well, all the more so! What's wrong with sinagae?

If I had collected this female in the Crimea , I would have decided (from her appearance) that she was a typical cinarae. And the beginning of July is the perfect time.

to okoem: have you ever cooked Crimean cinnars?

to okoem: have you ever cooked Crimean cinnars?

I once cooked one male to make sure that it really is cinarae.

I once cooked one male,

It's easy with males.

Just now I carefully read this message... well, all the more so! What's wrong with sinagae?

Oh, it's not sinai (by the genitals, that's for sure). Here are the genitals of the female sinagae, the nature of sclerotization is quite different. Yes, and outwardly sinagae is somewhat different - at least in our country-the spots are more pronounced and the underparts are olive to greenish.

This post was edited by bora - 28.02.2011 15: 28

Pictures:

cinara_.jpg — (89.71к)

In the comparison

Pictures:

Pyrgus_spp.jpg — (92.79к)

Well, then I don't know... The left preparation is some kind of "crease" - it can't just be the effect of the difference in conditions during their preparation? IMHO, it's still closer to cinarae than anything else.

We already have one mysterious female (from Serhiy and Pasha, from the Luhansk region), but the second one is planned.

Well, then I don't know... The left preparation is some kind of "crease" - it can't just be the effect of the difference in conditions during their preparation?

The preparations were prepared under absolutely standardized conditions. (Standardization is my genetically determined state , for example, my great-grandfather Nikolay Ivanovich organized in 1901 under the auspices of D. I. Mendeleev in Kharkiv a branch of the Chamber of Weights and Measures, which has now grown into the State Standard of Ukraine).
If serezno, the processing is as follows: the dry abdomen is placed for exactly 5 minutes in an already boiling 10% NaOH solution. At the end of the specified period, the material is immediately transferred to glycerin at room temperature, where it is cleaned of associated tissues.
On the drug, these are not" folds", but strands of sclerotization. On the disputed drug in its right part, the external weight from below is slightly damaged and moved even more to the right.

IMHO, it's still closer to cinarae than anything else.
We already have one mysterious female (from Serhiy and Pasha, from the Luhansk region), but the second one is planned.

The butterfly makes an intermediate impression on me, between armoricanus and cynara, maybe a hybrid? Yes, and this shabby female was caught about a week earlier than the fresh tsinara males come out.
And this place is located only 50-60 km east of the Luhansk region (Provalya).

This post was edited by bora - 01.03.2011 08: 37

Pictures:

Pyrgus.jpg — (121.75к)

There are also some similarities with the genitals in Pavel's drawing (for example, a well-defined, highly elongated central postvaginal lobe, clear symmetrical areas of sclerotization on the sides of this lobe).

This post was edited by bora - 01.03.2011 08: 24

Pictures:

Pyrgus_genitalia.jpg — (57.05к)

There are also some similarities with the genitals in Pavel's drawing (for example, a well-defined, highly elongated central postvaginal lobe, clear symmetrical areas of sclerotization on the sides of this lobe).

in addition to the drawing, several photographs were taken. From the available ones, these symmetrical areas of sclerotization are somehow more noticeable in my most nondescript images:

Yeees... those genitals are the cover star... who just did not photograph them... Can we send them to Playboy?

More seriously, I've been thinking... I have long thought that if it were not for the habitus of the imago, I would say that these genitals are from the serratulae... These are the closest ones. See, for example, the topmost image on this page. Earlier in the topic there were similar ones.

I have long thought that if it were not for the habitus of the imago, I would say that these genitals are from the serratulae... These are the closest ones. See, for example, the topmost image on this page. Earlier in the topic there were similar ones.

that's the "squiggle" in this situation - "if only" ...

  
Photo of the genitals of the South Russian Muschampia proto in a hurry

But "krymchanin" (for sraneniya, just in case):

M. proto Spain, Sierra de Alhamilla

slide OP1097m



This post was edited by barko-04.04.2011 18: 25

Now find 10 differences... Where are the differences in the shape of gnathos? IMHO, not very noticeable.

Now find 10 differences...

Pictures:

1.jpg — (86.77к)

And putting the middle and right genitals on top of each other.

Pictures:

2.jpg — (144.15 k)

the drawn line highlights the differences in shape, in addition, the length of the uncus is different

the drawn line highlights the differences in shape, in addition, the length of the uncus is different

Pictures:

post_35363_1301879332.jpg — (90.42к)

  

this is the sclerotized part of the scaphium. So it seems to me

This post was edited by barko-04.04.2011 04: 26

this is the sclerotized part of the scaphium. So it seems to me

And I think that the Rostov preparation is slightly rotated by the dorsal structures on the lens, so they are in focus, and the Spanish one is turned away from the lens, and therefore the area remote from the lens on the Spanish preparation is behind the focus, as a result of which it is "blurred". Otherwise, the contours are the same.

This post was edited by bora - 04.04.2011 06: 17

Pictures:

3.JPG — (145.16 k)

I'm afraid it sounds corny, and not very smart, but... THE SERIES IS NEEDED...

Oleg, can you take a look at the Gishpan butterfly?
There are no differences in the genitals, or I don't see them

  M. proto Spain, Sierra de Alhamilla

And I think that the Rostov preparation is slightly rotated by the dorsal structures on the lens, so they are in focus, and the Spanish one is turned away from the lens, and therefore the area remote from the lens on the Spanish preparation is behind the focus, as a result of which it is "blurred". Otherwise, the contours are the same.

In order to explain what was meant, I will try to take photos from which it will be clear where one structure ends and the next begins. But it will be only at the end of the week (I'm going on a business trip).

In order to explain what was meant, I will try to take photos from which it will be clear where one structure ends and the next begins. But it will be only at the end of the week (I'm going on a business trip).

So I changed the angle a little (the focus just got lost) - is that what you meant?

Pictures:

IMG_5190.jpg — (29.21к)

IMHO, there are minimal differences in the shape of the cucullus. However, I have doubts about their stability (I judge it in comparison with the situation for the Pyrgus thickheads). Indeed, you can hardly do without a series here.