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18.03.2010 21:43, Kharkovbut

Pyrgus serratulae, collection of the Kharkiv National University Nature Museum.

bora: returning to your question about who the female from Udmurtia is (photo 3, post 325) - IMHO, this is also a serratulae. In terms of habit, it is quite consistent with this, the genitals confirm it. Has Serratula ever been pointed out from Udmurtia?

Pictures:
picture: P._serratulae__m___Novograd_Volynski.jpg
P._serratulae__m___Novograd_Volynski.jpg — (121.63к)

picture: P._serratulae__m___Novograd_Volynski__UN.jpg
P._serratulae__m___Novograd_Volynski__UN.jpg — (156.94 k)

picture: P._serratulae__m___Novograd_Volynski__UP.jpg
P._serratulae__m___Novograd_Volynski__UP.jpg — (144.21к)

Likes: 4

18.03.2010 23:43, Alexandr Zhakov

Question.
Attention has already been drawn to the significant difference between western and southern Pyrgus serratulae in Ukraine.
Different subspecies?
Right: Ukraine, Zaporozhye region, end of May. (post 93)
picture: сератуле_вол2.јрдpicture: post_57217_1258706047.jpg
Image: Seratule_vol..jpgpicture: post_57217_1258706080.jpg
Different subspecies? confused.gif

19.03.2010 1:05, Kharkovbut

Question.
Attention has already been drawn to the significant difference between western and southern Pyrgus serratulae in Ukraine.
Different subspecies?
IMHO, yes. The north-west is a nominative, the south-east is a P. s. major, or at least a subspecies of the "major group", according to De Jong.

I think we're starting to repeat ourselves. smile.gif
Likes: 1

19.03.2010 1:30, Kharkovbut

Has Serratula ever been pointed out from Udmurtia?
I asked for it myself, and I'll answer it myself. wink.gif Yes, they did.

19.03.2010 4:15, bora

Likes: 5

19.03.2010 20:39, palvasru4ko

 
I wonder how morphologists can comment on this?

I think there is nothing to comment on here, it is necessary to open the faculty of entomological androgyny in universities. Previously, people sincerely believed that the earth is flat... Time inexorably puts everything in its place!

19.03.2010 23:39, Kharkovbut

Yes... Looking at this picture, I was reminded again of Pyrgus bellieri (area: Eastern Pyrenees, Alpes-Maritimes, Appennines...wink.gif) - after all, according to De Jong, it should have exactly three postvaginal lobes (and now their postvaginality is clearly visible... wink.gif

Here I came across a job-curious. Unfortunately, the genitals of males were studied there. But still curious.

http://www.zoologie.umh.ac.be/asef/pdf/200...45_155_full.pdf
Likes: 4

20.03.2010 0:27, palvasru4ko

  
Pyrgus bellieri (range: Eastern Pyrenees, Alpes-Maritimes, Appennines...wink.gif) - after all, according to De Jong, it should have exactly three postvaginal lobes (and now their postvaginality is clearly visible... wink.gif

If it turns out that it is her, it will remain to exclaim: "a bad break in the range!" By the way, Eugene, and De Jong did not answer the letter?

20.03.2010 0:42, Kharkovbut

If it turns out that it is her, it remains to exclaim: "nikhilyj gap area!"
Albania also seems to have it. smile.gif
By the way, Eugene, did De Jong not respond to your email?
Unfortunately, no.

This post was edited by Kharkovbut - 03/20/2010 00: 42

20.03.2010 5:10, bora

Pasha, very clearly drawn! Beautiful drawing! It looks like a hermaphrodite with a predominance of the female and reduced male genitalia, which turned into a postvaginal plate. Lateral lobes - valvae, central process-uncus. It would be necessary to look in detail at a larger zoom!

This post was edited by bora - 20.03.2010 05: 41

Pictures:
picture: 1.jpg
1.jpg — (58.03к)

Likes: 3

20.03.2010 7:14, palvasru4ko

It looks like a hermaphrodite with a predominance of the female and reduced male genitalia, which turned into a postvaginal plate. Lateral lobes - valvae, central process-uncus. It would be necessary to look in detail at a larger zoom!

In a lecture hall, I once read someone's creation scrawled on the table: "Anything can be. And anything can happen. And only that can not be, which, perhaps, can not be, everything else can be." We will watch! Thanks for the idea!

25.03.2010 1:30, Kharkovbut

Here, apparently, is the same (there is no other) copy of "cribrellum" from the collection of the Kharkiv University Museum of Nature, according to which it is listed for the Crimea (see post number 313), and its genitals. The photo is not important, but the main details of the structure are visible. IMHO, the issue can be closed and cribrellum from the lists of thickheads of the Crimea to exclude. smile.gif

This post was edited by Kharkovbut-25.03.2010 01: 32

Pictures:
picture: M._tessellum__m___Crimea__Karabi___2_UP.jpg
M._tessellum__m___Crimea__Karabi___2_UP.jpg — (141.63к)

picture: M._tessellum__m___Crimea__Karabi___2_UN.jpg
M._tessellum__m___Crimea__Karabi___2_UN.jpg — (138.17к)

picture: M._tessellum__m___Crimea__Karabi___2_genit.jpg
M._tessellum__m___Crimea__Karabi___2_genit.jpg — (107.04к)

Likes: 5

25.03.2010 1:49, Kharkovbut

And who is this? Was it really Alveus? Also something in between... I am interested in the opinion of my colleagues.

From the collection of the Museum of Nature of Kharkiv University.

Pictures:
picture: Pyrgus_sp.__m___St._Vodolaga__genit.jpg
Pyrgus_sp.__m___St._Vodolaga__genit.jpg — (163.8к)

picture: Pyrgus_sp.__m___St._Vodolaga__UP.jpg
Pyrgus_sp.__m___St._Vodolaga__UP.jpg — (128.75 k)

picture: Pyrgus_sp.__m___St._Vodolaga__UN.jpg
Pyrgus_sp.__m___St._Vodolaga__UN.jpg — (140.32к)

Likes: 5

25.03.2010 7:26, okoem

And who is this?

Perhaps this is the missing element to the row in the post URL#207 wink.gif
Likes: 1

25.03.2010 12:50, Kharkovbut

Perhaps this is the missing element to the row in the post URL207  wink.gif
I can see that for myself... wink.gif

25.03.2010 14:45, okoem

3. Or maybe Ivy wrote everything down correctly, but accidentally there was a "typo" in the correspondence "Ivy-okoem".
....
Triphysa phryne (Satyridae) and so it turns out. In 2003, in the book "Butterflies of Eastern Europe, Urals and Caucasus: An illustrated guide" (Kuiv – Brno, 176 p.) on page 85 (view No. 220) on the map, Crimea is included in the zone of "areal shading".

"I quoted the date correctly.
"I haven't been able to find out who actually collected Phryne first. The" oldest " Crimean specimen that I know of was collected by Yu. I. Budashkin (if my memory serves me right) in May 2005.

I believe that if specific labels are not given when specifying new species, such "instructions" can and should be ignored.

UPDATE Oh, I'm lying. Succeeded. Ruslan Mishustin collected it. Only I don't know the date.

This post was edited by okoem - 11.04.2010 08: 34
Likes: 4

25.03.2010 18:21, Kharkovbut

I noticed that the date was wrong. smile.gif There are two tesselum specimens in the collection with the same label, the only difference being Lisetsky's definitive label. The second copy is labeled "tesselum". If necessary, I can post his photo as well. But why ? smile.gif It's the same. It was on the basis of this definitive label that I made a bold conclusion that this is probably the same instance.

As for priority issues (who first pointed out...) - IMHO, this is not important (at least for me wink.gif). What, IMHO, is important is to know the real composition of the fauna as accurately and completely as possible.
Likes: 1

25.03.2010 20:31, Kharkovbut

IMHO, knowing and correctly presenting the history of studying the fauna of your native land is just as important as knowing (and not messing around!) the very history of your native country.
Yes, of course. First of all, I had in mind that I was most interested in who was the first to give a dubious, practically unfounded indication (even if it is later confirmed), but in a hurry the emphasis shifted. smile.gif

This post was edited by Kharkovbut - 25.03.2010 20: 35
Likes: 1

25.03.2010 22:34, Damone

And who is this? Was it really Alveus? Also something in between... I am interested in the opinion of my colleagues.

From the collection of the Museum of Nature of Kharkiv University.


Probably armoricanus. After all, the cucullus varies within some limits... And the base of the garp is quite narrow. If you compare with the alveus above, this drug pulls more on the armoricanus.

And alveus. The date is not specified on the label... There is a "female". And it is interesting that in terms of habit, this copy is very similar to the one I have from Bashkiria (I haven't cooked it yet): longer forewings, darker hindwings... In general, I sincerely hope that this is a copy from Ukraine smile.gif
Likes: 1

25.03.2010 23:09, Kharkovbut

Probably armoricanus. After all, the cucullus varies within some limits... And the base of the garp is quite narrow. If you compare with the alveus above, this drug pulls more on the armoricanus.
Yes, the base of the garpa is, of course, armoricanus. Cucullus is dubious. In general, such variability of genitals and the presence of transitional forms is alarming. Obviously, we do not yet understand everything about the relationships of the taxa of the Alveus group...
And alveus. The date is not specified on the label... There is a "female". And it is interesting that in terms of habit, this copy is very similar to the one I have from Bashkiria (I haven't cooked it yet): longer forewings, darker hindwings... In general, I sincerely hope that this is a copy from Ukraine smile.gif
Well, I agree that the label is, let's just say, not as detailed as we would like. smile.gif But that was what I checked.

Since we are talking about this, here are a few words about these fees. Our museum has large collections of Z's. Mikhailova Street, all with the same type of original labels (they have the date or lack of it, sometimes the name of the type). It is known (perhaps it is better to say "considered") that all fees are made in the ROC. Novograd-Volynsky. I have also reviewed the material on other species, and so far I have not found any faunal contradictions to this fact.

27.03.2010 6:48, PG18

Probably armoricanus. After all, the cucullus varies within some limits... And the base of the garp is quite narrow. If you compare with the alveus above, this drug pulls more on the armoricanus.

And alveus. The date is not specified on the label... There is a "female". And it is interesting that in terms of habit, this copy is very similar to the one I have from Bashkiria (I haven't cooked it yet): longer forewings, darker hindwings... In general, I sincerely hope that this is a copy from Ukraine smile.gif

I also think that armoricanus. If you find a similar garp base in a butterfly from Bashkiria, please inform us, pj.
Likes: 1

11.04.2010 0:48, Damone

Here I was looking through Nekrutenko's 1985 book with thoughts about pyrgus. I had previously skipped the photos, but now I have looked at them and-perhaps they are very characteristic of the confusion that has arisen in the literature.
So, in Table 2:
Fig. 5 a, b-armoricanus is written, and serratule is shown.
4a, b - "alveus" on top, "serratule" on the bottom. Yes, "Alveus" is similar to Alveus, but still not a fact. And in the place of "serratule" can be anything at all.

As for maps, yes, maps. But where does this instance come from, like all of the above?
And by the way, so far, the deeper you dig, the more dark spots smile.gif
Likes: 1

11.04.2010 8:41, okoem

In the case of modern "discoveries" - yes, it should be so. But what about the species that were first identified 100 years ago?

Well, in those days, no one really specified labels. For "ancient" works, this is normal. And if the habitat of the species was subsequently confirmed, then there are no questions.

11.04.2010 18:20, Liparus

Previously, people sincerely believed that the earth is flat... Time inexorably puts everything in its place!

And even earlier, people (Sumerians) even knew that there is a planet Nibiru, in addition to other planets from the solar system.

22.04.2010 13:49, Tambovlupus

There is a question-and that in museum storerooms of lepidoptera of Ukraine whether there are no collections of thick-headed Nekrutenko??? If not, where can they be? If you need to search , it's not nice to dismiss it right away... And suddenly it turns out that they are!!
Likes: 1

27.05.2010 22:52, barko

Pyrgus carthami Hungary, 27.05.2010

picture: 001.jpg
Likes: 6

28.05.2010 0:00, Kharkovbut

  Pyrgus carthami Hungary, 27.05.2010
What kind of biotope (if not a secretsmile.gif)?

28.05.2010 17:50, barko

What kind of biotope (if not a secretsmile.gif)?
Not a secret smile.gif

picture: 005.jpg

picture: 006.jpg

picture: 007.jpg

picture: 009.jpg
Likes: 10

28.05.2010 22:03, Alexandr Zhakov

This year, the species that either did not come up in the vicinity of Zaporozhye, or there were isolated finds.
Pyrgus malvae (Linnaeus, 1758), 12.05.2010. I've been fishing on the border with the Donetsk region for a very long time. I didn't see any other instances from the region. And this year the usual view. In just a few hours, I marked more than a dozen copies.
picture: malve.jpg
picture: malvae2.jpg
Pyrgus serratulae (Rambur, 1839), recorded last 3-4 years, individual specimens, previously not recorded. Now the number is up to 10 copies. in a few hours.
picture: serratulae.jpg
Likes: 8

03.06.2010 4:42, vasiliy-feoktistov

Carterocephalus silvicola Meigen, 1829
Perhaps the most widespread now in the Moscow region tolstogolovka.
The picture was taken yesterday, in the forest, in the vicinity of my city.

Pictures:
picture: 2.06.2010.jpg
2.06.2010.jpg — (223.3к)

Likes: 6

09.06.2010 0:12, barko

Pyrgus carthamy male and female genitalia

picture: 001_op0666m_02_cleaned02_1.JPG

picture: 002_op0666m_03_cleaned02_1.JPG

picture: 003_op0754f_01_cleaned01_1.jpg picture: 004_op0754f_02_cleaned01_1.jpg
Likes: 10

09.07.2010 17:15, PG18

[quote=barko,09.06.2010 01:12]
Likes: 1

10.07.2010 8:54, palvasru4ko

A MASTERPIECE!!! the pictures are amazing!!! only the left valva is so clear and transparent (if you look closely - there is an asymmetry in the pictures) that it seems as if the right valva was removed twice!!!
Likes: 1

10.07.2010 13:51, barko

A MASTERPIECE!!! the pictures are amazing!!! only the left valva is so clear and transparent (if you look closely - there is an asymmetry in the pictures) that it seems as if the right valva was removed twice!!!
In all honestysmile.gif, I placed the walvas under the cover glass as they are usually drawn in books.

picture: DSC00634.jpg

11.07.2010 14:01, TEMPUS

Carterocephalus silvicola Meigen, 1829
Perhaps the most widespread now in the Moscow region tolstogolovka.
The picture was taken yesterday, in the forest, in the vicinity of my city.

Second generation??? confused.gif They only seem to produce one generation a year.Or is it not so?
Something very late for this species-July 2.

This post was edited by TEMPUS - 11.07.2010 14: 56

11.07.2010 14:12, Бомка

Скопление Syrichtus cribrellum.
E.Siberia, Irkutsk Region, lake Baikal, cape Rytyi, Nature Reserve «Baikalo-Lenskyi», 26-VI-2010.
picture: Syrichtus_cribrellum.jpg
Likes: 6

12.07.2010 16:14, vasiliy-feoktistov

Second generation??? confused.gif They only seem to produce one generation a year.Or is it not so?
Something very late for this species-July 2.

You should read there on June 2.
Likes: 1

14.07.2010 12:53, TEMPUS

You should read there on June 2.

Oh, I'm sorry, I made a little mistake. smile.gif The heat doesn't seem to have a very positive effect on my head.Thank you for correcting me.

16.07.2010 4:16, Бомка

Скопление Syrichtus cribrellum.
E.Siberia, Irkutsk Region, lake Baikal, cape Rytyi, Nature Reserve «Baikalo-Lenskyi», 26-VI-2010.
picture: Syrichtus_cribrellum.jpg

Added a video snippet -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K13FDFUcYxw

01.01.2011 20:33, Krupskyi

Happy New Year to all, comrades! Can you tell me if the color of the antennae club is a distinctive feature (if so, how reliable) of alveus / serratulae? I do not have a large series of species, but all my males alveus (identified genitally) have a red mace on the bottom, and serratulae - with a black one. And then there are doubts about the females, and I do not cook them yet. mol.gif

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