Sphingidae Hawkmoths

[quote=Nikolos,14.03.2013 22:41]

do hawks and caterpillars of most species have just such a horn, which is absent in other families?

A horn-shaped outgrowth at the end of the body is also present in caterpillars of the finger-wing genus Agdistis.

A horn-shaped outgrowth at the end of the body is also present in caterpillars of the finger-wing genus Agdistis.

and also in Endromis versicolora, in some Notodontidae...

The view is not the most exotic, but the frame, in my opinion, is not without some artistic advantages...

Krasnodar Region, Bolshoy Utrish, August 2012

and also in Endromis versicolora, in some Notodontidae...

I did not mean any different outgrowths in other families, although I gave an example about Satyridae. It may be that the horns at the end of the body of caterpillars have a more or less common origin, but they are separated in hawks (it is unlikely that in caterpillars of other families the horn may have an identical structure and habit as in hawks; if you are wrong, give an example). I did ask about the direct function of the horn specifically in hawks; harpies have osmeteria at the end of the two horns, yes, there is a function of protection, but no similarity. So far, I can't find an unambiguous definition of the horn function in hawks (in all 3 subfamilies). To generalize different horns in different families, you need to know the structure and origin.

I will conclude about the horn of Sphingidae. Also from the above.
1) In my opinion, the horn of hawk moth is a habitual extension of the caterpillar's body back (along the dorsal side).
2) Yes, I agree that the horn of hawkmoth may have the same origin as some crested birds and other families (although convergence is not excluded). But in harpies, the horns represent an adaptive transformation of the thrusters. In Endromis, I'm still at a loss to say, but I think they don't have a horn, but a conical soft outgrowth (?).3
) In other families, only a number of species have horns, while in Sphingidae, almost all species have horns.
4) The horn is scary. In hawkmoth with a nominative horn, it is difficult to understand what kind of frightening analogue the animal sees in the horn of a hawkmoth?
5) But modifications of the horn, M. b. can frighten; for example, the ocular spot in proserpina and P. Sphecodina sp. Or in the genus Eumorpha sp. , in the penultimate instars, it is a thin, sinuous wire of red and other tones, which resembles the intimidating osmeteria of harpies or sailboats, mainly of the genus Papilio sp. These and other changes in the horn in favor of scaring away are minor aromorphoses.
6) Nominative horns in hawks (e.g. ocellatus or euphorbiae) are likely to have no function at all. I found confirmation of this on the Internet: "... in insects, the morphological and physiological significance is completely unknown; for example, the horn at the end of the body of some caterpillars (Bombyx mori, Sphingidae). Website: www.reword.org
7) If there are objections in favor of the function of the horn of hawks, I will be very willing to accept!

Guys, it would be extremely important to first understand the terminology, explain what kind of animal such "nominative horns" are, then sort out the morphology of these horns yourself in order to know what they are represented in different families and why they have nothing to do with horns in harpies at all, then it would be important to understand that the phrase "the value is not known" is by no means unambiguous to "have no function at all". And in general, all these little meaningful discussions could be taken out of this forum. Create the "Horns and Legs" branch.

Interesting question about "horns". Maybe everything is simpler: "horn" - inherited from a common ancestor? In any case, both "horned" and "hornless" species are equally successful and successfully coexist in the same conditions.
p. s. School literature, as always, burns out: "In case of danger, they release a horn at the back end, which is usually placed under the skin." Lectures on Biology. class 7.)

School literature not only burns out,but sometimes surprises with its illiteracy, as if it is written by people very far from biology. The phrase"habitat","what do you think?"Me for example already cringes.

Guys, it would be extremely important to first understand the terminology, explain what kind of animal such "nominative horns" are, then sort out the morphology of these horns yourself in order to know what they are represented in different families and why they have nothing to do with horns in harpies at all, then it would be important to understand that the phrase "the value is not known" is by no means unambiguous to "have no function at all". And in general, all these little meaningful discussions could be taken out of this forum. Create the "Horns and Legs" branch.

Vadim, you are again becoming a letter-eater, ready to absolutize everything. Biology is an exact science, but not yet higher mathematics. You understand me perfectly. Let the statement "nominative horn" be silly (although I have never used such organs as the horn of hawkmoth as a diagnostic sign), but you understood me that this is a horn like ocellatus or euphorbiae, elpenor, and I even explained this above (sorry, I have never been engaged in horn classification, and this is not an excuse). How to formulate the habitus of the horn "as in euphorbiae" is not yet in my power. But, don't you see? I didn't read about horn morphology in school textbooks. I formulated the morphology of the horn myself, yes..., this definition is closer to me, although, of course...., it is yes..., HYPOTHETICAL!!! (FOR NOW). Here you, Vadim, would have formulated it yourself!!!... You read morphology, don't you? And if you don't care about the lantern, why do you find fault?! "Then you can sort out the morphology of these horns yourself, so that you know how they are represented in different families" (your quote). What I took the liberty to compare with other families, of course...., I just RAN AWAY!!!...... Well, I took, yes, from my personal definition I began to trump what they are represented in other families.... It's "GONE", oh yes..... Yes why didn't others rate it while I was looking at my post at the very end of the page?! This message has been lonely for quite some time. And now, without giving your own definition, you are enjoying "MY ERRONEOUS FORMULATIONS"!!! "...You learn how to write poetry without writing a single line yourself." And besides, I formulated everything alone, at my computer; I'm sorry that there were no others. And I did not defend my dissertation, and there were no opponents. In general, I think that the truth, sooner or later, is born from the contradictions of one person (I do not ignore the others). "Of course, amateur entomologists are amateurs, but our intuition is better developed..." Yu. A. Derzhavets.
The origin of the two horns in harpies, the beech fork-tail, is quite obvious to me. The phrases "the value is not known" and "have no function at all". Yes, I did not treat the situation fairly here. "Outside the forum", why such a strict statement of the question? "To move from the magazine "Apollo" to "Atalanta", to take out of these magazines, etc.", it seems strange such "legislation". This is that, such a problem about the horn of hawkmoth does not have the right to be on the forum??? I don't understand" YOU", alas.... I apologize for the magazines "Atalanta" and "Apollo", I didn't mean to offend them at all, I just mentioned them. And the discussions, however, would be even more informative if any of the forum members offered me their thoughts on this topic. The function of the horn in hawks is exactly what I would like to know. Vadim, you would suggest something, but I was hoping for you.... "Create a branch of horns and legs" - I don't understand what you're driving at . Why do you "insult" these bodies in my face? You need to go to "horns and hooves", it's more interesting there.
Here Sergey 71 offered his version, thanks to him!
But, Vadim, you will continue to be a letter-eater and an absolutist. I'm sorry, we're getting older, so be more loyal.

Interesting question about "horns". Maybe everything is simpler: "horn" - inherited from a common ancestor? In any case, both "horned" and "hornless" species are equally successful and successfully coexist in the same conditions.
p. s. School literature, as always, burns out: "In case of danger, they release a horn at the back end, which is usually placed under the skin." Lectures on Biology. 7th grade. )

I agree with you. Horn in Sphingidae, from a common ancestor, or later from lepidoptera-the ancestors of the current hawk moth species. Then it most likely had a function. And modern hawks with a transformed horn into an ocular spot (proserpina, Sph. caudata), or in a thin curved horn, with an imitation of osmeteria (genus Eumorpha sp.), quite possibly have the function of distracting or intimidating animals. Then no comments.
I'm sorry if anything happens. I just added it. If I've made a mistake with the terminology, you know better.

Let's "not sin" with the terminology.
There is purely scientific terminology, there is slang, and sometimes "pseudoscientific nonsense"
You will become a letter-eater here, when the illiteracy of a number of participants is off the scale.

Let's "not sin" with the terminology.
There is purely scientific terminology, there is slang, and sometimes "pseudoscientific nonsense"
You will become a letter-eater here, when the illiteracy of a number of participants is off the scale.

Dear Morozzz,
Why don't you write anything at all?! Who is doing "pseudoscientific nonsense" here? If the illiteracy rate goes through the roof, the letter study itself disappears!

I offer 2 photos of Hyles euphorbiae. Tracks. Of course, it is very banal, but it is difficult to pass by this beauty. Like a child's decorated "plastic" toy! And no matter how much there is in the euphorbiae collection, I still want to take the beauty and bring out the butterfly again. In a 5-liter jar (not in a cage) - they also live in comfort.

A sensation!!!
Today at noon in Pyatigorsk I was born a Hawk Moth Komarov!!!

And the picture looks more like alecto

Yes, it is, of course, alecto, Gnathostypsis alecto, but it is still a sensation, because the northernmost point and! It seems to be a first for Europe! "Noon to light" - is it midnight?

Well, not for the first time in Europe Theretra alecto.
http://www.lepiforum.de/cgi-bin/lepiwiki.pl?Theretra_Alecto
But Russia is really known only from 14 regions: the Chechen Republic and Dagestan, and for 13 there is no Sinev. A sensation.

Unless, of course, it's a Happy April 1 greeting.


This post was edited by Djon-01.04.2013 12: 14

Well, not for the first time in Europe Theretra alecto.
http://www.lepiforum.de/cgi-bin/lepiwiki.pl?Theretra_Alecto
But Russia is really known only from 14 regions: the Chechen Republic and Dagestan, and for 13 there is no Sinev. A sensation.

Unless, of course, it's a Happy April 1 greeting.

Of course it's a joke:

All entomologists from April 1!!!

  A sensation!!!
Today at noon in Pyatigorsk I was born a Hawk Moth Komarov!!!

It's more like Gagarin's and Titov's hawkmoth!

Then, Valentine, tell me the secret of where this copy came from."
By the way, you may well have it in Pyatigorsk, since it is known contiguously.

Then, Valentine, tell me the secret of where this copy came from."
By the way, you may well have it in Pyatigorsk, since it is known contiguously.

No, it's cold for Alecto in Pyatigorsk. A couple of times I came across it, but in Dagestan.
This specimen was hatched today from a caterpillar that was found on grape seedlings at the Institute of Zoology of Azerbaijan on the third floor.

Hemaris fuciformis
Lipetsk region, Dobrovskiy district, May 28 this year

day-eat



It's getting late - it's time to go to bed

Caterpillar L5 Hemaris croatica, Crimea, Tarkhankut Peninsula.

This post was edited by Hemaris - 23.08.2013 00: 36

Pictures:

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Hemaris_croatica_L5_pink.jpg — (167.97к)


Hemaris_croatica_rearing.jpg — (408.29к)

caterpillar Hemaris fuciformis - ? July 10 on snizhnyagodnik

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IMG_5754.JPG — (29.69к)

And only a few people in the world have seen this. Mating of Hemaris croatica.

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DSC01619________.jpg — (145.84 k)

Caterpillars of Croat and scabiose bumblebees.

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Caterpillars of the Croat

Croatia is Croatia

Hello dear forum participants!!!
This is what Erix writes to you. Unfortunately, I couldn't log in to the forum because I couldn't find the document with the password. That's why I had to change the alias a little. I have a question for you. "Personal data" and "Statistics" couldn't be properly described for yourself. It only has my initials. I clicked on "Show this member's topics" and was eventually let know that an error had occurred. I tried to get out of it somehow, but it didn't work out. Question: can I enter my personal data and topics in "Personal Data and Statistics", despite this situation with this "Error"??? Is there anything that can be done??? I will be very, very grateful to you!!!
I would like to remind you that Erix is totzhe: it's just that Erix, Erix, Erix.
I will write here my area of interest: Lepidoptera.
G. Serpukhov, Moscow region.
In addition I attach my brood Hyloicus pinastri L.

[quote=Hemaris,23.08.2013 01:42]

Macroglossum mitchelli Ménétriés, 1857
22.03.2013-01.04.2013. Malaysia, Pahang, Fraser's Hill, Silverpark, 3.42'54.81"N 101.44'07.65"E Alt.=1285м. leg. Vishnyakov A.N.
det. Feoktistov V.I.

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Amplypterus panopus (Cramer, [1779])
22.03.2013-01.04.2013. Malaysia, Pahang, Fraser's Hill, Silverpark, 3.42'54.81"N 101.44'07.65"E Alt.=1285м. leg. Vishnyakov A.N.
det. Feoktistov V.I.

Pictures:

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Hippotion boerhaviae (Fabricius, 1775)
22.03.2013-01.04.2013. Malaysia, Pahang, Fraser's Hill, Silverpark, 3.42'54.81"N 101.44'07.65"E Alt.=1285м. leg. Vishnyakov A. N.
det. Feoktistov V. I.
N. B. Can be confused with a similar type Hippotion rosetta (Swinhoe, 1892) But despite this, I came to the conclusion that I still have boerhaviae.

Pictures:

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Here is such a caterpillar Hyles euphorbiae I came across last weekend
Danube Delta, 13.10.2013

In my opinion, one of the most "monstrous" hawkmoth.
Meganoton analis (Felder, 1874)
22.03.2013-01.04.2013. Malaysia, Pahang, Fraser's Hill, Silverpark, 3.42'54.81"N 101.44'07.65"E Alt.=1285м. leg. Vishnyakov A.N.
det. Feoktistov V.I.

This post was edited by vasiliy-feoktistov - 15.10.2013 10: 18

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Ambulyx substrigilis (Westwood, 1847)
22.03.2013-01.04.2013. Malaysia, Pahang, Fraser's Hill, Silverpark, 3.42'54.81"N 101.44'07.65"E Alt.=1285м. leg. Vishnyakov A.N.
det. Feoktistov V.I.

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Cechenena subangustata Rothschild, 1920= Cechenena lineosa subangustata Rothschild, 1920
22.03.2013-01.04.2013. Malaysia, Pahang, Fraser's Hill, Silverpark, 3.42'54.81"N 101.44'07.65"E Alt.=1285м. leg. Vishnyakov A.N.
det. Feoktistov V.I.
Edited the name due to its placement below Cechenena lineosa (Walker, 1856) to make it clear that it is sometimes included in subspecies to the lower-placed one. Although in my opinion, this is not a subspecies, but a separate species.

This post was edited by vasiliy-feoktistov - 15.10.2013 13: 04

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Cechenena lineosa (Walker, 1856)
22.03.2013-01.04.2013. Malaysia, Pahang, Fraser's Hill, Silverpark, 3.42'54.81"N 101.44'07.65"E Alt.=1285м. leg. Vishnyakov A.N.
det. Feoktistov V.I.

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down3.jpg — (141.88к)

Here is such a caterpillar Hyles euphorbiae I came across last weekend
Danube Delta, 13.10.2013

The most interesting caterpillar of Hyles euphorbiae! Apparently a very rare form, a rare incomplete melanist. I've never seen anyone like this before. However, when I first looked at it, it seemed to me that it was a form of H. nicaea (signs of this species??????). Yes, well, okay, this is an extremely rare common euphorbia. You'll have to make additions to your notes. Georgy.