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Latin (short educational program)

Community and ForumOther questions. Insects topicsLatin (short educational program)

Pavel Morozov, 26.05.2007 10:39

Dear colleagues!
We all have to work with Latin names.
There is a problem with correct pronunciation. Writing is a separate topic.
Here is a brief overview of the main stumbling blocks:

Accent. usually on the first syllable.

The diphthong " ae "is always read as "E". For example, L. maera - mayor's velvet
If umlaut - "ae" is above the letter e, it is read as " AE " for example, air - aeg

The diphthong " oe "is read as an intermediate between "o" and " e " - for example, phoebus/
Pronunciation as "E"is not forbidden

Diphthong " eu "- read as " EV " - Eupatorus

"ii" - long "and" - maackii - "maaki"

With vowels, everything is simple. And with consonants - their own problems.

The letter " c "
Before the vowels a, o, u-is pronounced as" K " - for example, Carabus (Carabus), Colias (colias), Cupido (cupido).

Before the vowels e, i, y, diphthongs " ae " and " oe "- pronounced as " C "
for example, Cetonia( cetonia), cinctaria (cinctaria), cychrus (cichrus)
FOR EVERYONE: CAECUS (blind) is read as CAECUS
Along with "k" is read as "k" - again maackii

"tio" is read as "cio". In addition, the "t" at the end of the word before the vowels e, i, y is read as "c". If t is followed by h (th), it is read as "t".

"ph" - read as "f"

"L" - always a soft sound - "l" For example, Lamia - "Lamia"

"w" and " v "- read as "b"

This is not all the nuances, but the main ones.
I ADVISE YOU TO PRINT IT OUT
umnik.gif

This post was edited by Morozzz - 05/26/2007 10: 41

Comments

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5... 7

26.05.2007 12:37, Tigran Oganesov

Right! Long overdue, and then the people distort how can smile.gifRespect! beer.gif

Still would the Ripper stopped transliterating Latin into Russian wink.gif

26.05.2007 16:50, RippeR

Don't hit on me.. If I wrote everything in Latin, then I would check 1 topic a week (although this is a good way to get rid of my increased activity smile.gif)

Frost Great respect!

I also wanted to ask - ch is read as X (pogonocherus-pogonocherus)? in what slkchai?

26.05.2007 17:14, Sparrow

Oh thank you) I always read it on a whim.. I look at 80% guessed correctly)))

27.05.2007 9:43, plantago

Here in the app there is a very short section about Latin pronunciation:
http://herba.msu.ru/shipunov/school/vzmsh/r_main.pdf
Also note that Anglo-Americans pronounce Latin differently, while Germans pronounce it like us.

27.05.2007 21:29, Pavel Morozov

Don't hit on me.. If I wrote everything in Latin, then I would check 1 topic a week (although this is a good way to get rid of my increased activity smile.gif)

Frost Great respect!

I also wanted to ask - ch is read as X (pogonocherus-pogonocherus)? in what slkchai?


ch is read as " x " (so that the shoulder guard)

h - "x", but soft, breathy.

28.05.2007 13:11, Mikhail F. Bagaturov

Here for more than 2 years as posted:
http://www.tarantulas.tropica.ru/ru/node/316

Morozzzz
ch is read as " x "(so pogonokherus)
h - "x", but soft, with a breath.

Why is he so breathy all of a sudden?
Nuka breathe it in Chlenius? and before other hard consonants and vowels - for example, Chondrodactylus...

28.05.2007 20:32, Pavel Morozov

Well, what is not clear here?
"ch" - just with the voltage - "pogonohkhherus"
But h - with a breath.

28.05.2007 20:39, Pavel Morozov

More about "ch".
Sometimes you have to deal with the incorrect Latin spelling of the sound "h"
Here are two examples: chimganus and chippewa. Accordingly, chimganus (from Chimgan, zap. Tian Shan) and Chippewa (North American Indians). In Latin, it should be read as "himganus" and "hippewa". But in fact, many people are more comfortable in a different way.
Likes: 2

29.05.2007 1:44, Vadim Yakubovich

BUT did they really get to Latin, too, hooray! Thanks to our doctors, at least they really learn Latin at school. Well, then also from me: qu is read as kv, i.e. quadrimaculata is read as quadrimaculate, not quadrimaculate. For "kaekus" separate respect! And also, depending on the origin of the word Latin/Greek, the sound x is written as h or ch, respectively. So if the transliteration is not from Greek, in my opinion, it is acceptable for ch to use ch.

29.05.2007 15:39, Mikhail F. Bagaturov

There are exceptions to many Latin words.
To read "kwe" or "kue", "ma" or "mya", as well as the like, is a question of "school"... Someone pronounces all the words softly, someone harshly. In prinip , this is not a matter of principle.
But with this very "ch" in fact, not everything is so simple...
So, for example, "chacoanum" is supposed to be pronounced according to the rules of Latin as "hakoana", but... the original name of the region is "Grand Chaco", so the pronunciation of this word as" chacoana " is not excluded, it will not be erroneous, i.e. in other words, the etymology of names, as rightly noted, plays a significant role. The situation is not even easier with the pronunciation of nominal types, especially with German and French surnames....

Well, as for the Greek words...
in theory, the word Citharacantha should be read as "citaracana", but "cithar" comes from the Greek word (borrowed in turn from the East) and in the original is read as " kitara "(also: "sitar"), so many people pronounce it as "kitarakanta", which is also not considered erroneous.

This post was edited by mikepride - 05/29/2007 15: 45

29.05.2007 16:33, Pavel Morozov

I remember when I was still in my first year, when the anatomists didn't really sniff, when they were just beginning to learn Latin, the teacher almost threw me out of the classroom because of the "Anglo-American" pronunciation.
There are still problems with "ch". For example, I myself "retrained" for a long time not to pronounce "alkinous" and "laodike", but on the contrary - "alcinous" and "liaodice".

A small lyrical digression: working as a doctor, I constantly hear "acute chondrosis" and " insurance pole "(instead of osteochondrosis and polis). Hearing cuts.

29.05.2007 16:40, Pavel Morozov

The sound of " m " is never soft, but "l" is always, without exception.

Yes, one more rule of pronunciation - "ss"
By analogy-after the second "c" - a, o, u-is read as " k "
after the second" c "- e,i,y,ae,oe - is read as"C".
For example: cheek-cheeks-bucca-buccae

This post was edited by Morozzz - 05/29/2007 16: 40

29.05.2007 16:42, Pavel Morozov

As for exceptions , this is a moot point.
Latin doesn't have any dialects. The tongue has already "rested".

This post was edited by Morozzz - 05/29/2007 19: 31

30.05.2007 2:54, Vadim Yakubovich

The sound of " m " is never soft, but "l" is always, without exception.
Yes, one more rule of pronunciation - "ss"
By analogy-after the second "c" - a, o, u-is read as " k "
after the second" c "- e,i,y,ae,oe - is read as"C".
For example: cheek-cheeks-bucca-buccae

I totally agree, L is always read softly, M is always hard. At the expense of schools, we have, as far as I know, German roots at the medical school, so the pronunciation follows from-there. What I mean by this. In our country, more or less seriously, the basics of Latin are taught en masse only in medical schools, in foreign languages, as far as I know, the level is lower, and there are only a few specialists in ancient languages. Therefore, we can have only one "dialect" promoted by doctors in the Russian Federation. And qu should always be read as kv, this is the rule.
In Greek words, the letter C can be read as K even if it bypasses the rules, but you need to know these exceptions. And yet, when transliterating French, German, etc. surnames and derived names, there are quite strict rules, and problems should not arise if they are observed.
P. S. : And the first course, anatomy and ignorance of Latin, eh, there were times.... weep.gif

This post was edited by Sergeich - 30.05.2007 03: 09

30.05.2007 16:42, Mikhail F. Bagaturov

Well, it's not so bad, Latin is also taught in law schools, where I actually studied.
As for the schools "in our country" - I don't know what they are or if they exist at all, but that they exist in the world is unequivocal. I know this very well, having communicated not only with the Russian-speaking people.
And in addition to doctors in Russia, we also have biology lawyers who use Latin... Don't forget that, Mr. Medics smile.gif
Therefore, once again, who pronounces "Merula" - merula, and who is merula. But in my opinion, marula is also more difficult to pronounce, so with a hard "m" I would be careful not to say unequivocally...
As for transliteration-yes, ICZN regulates certain rules, but knowing the sound of the original-in any case, definitely gives the correct pronunciation (as happens with regional names).
and once again - etymology gives the correct understanding of pronunciation...
By the way, recently in systematic works, and especially in the first descriptions of dachshunds, in recent years, etymology of names is almost always included. At least, this is the case for arthropods and reptiles - from what I encounter all the time...

30.05.2007 19:07, RippeR

I suggest writing after all lat. tarn words rusticus ['rusticu:s] umnik.gif tongue.gif

01.06.2007 4:21, Vadim Yakubovich

I didn't want to offend the knowledge of lawyers and biologists in any way, I just didn't know that lawyers really teach Latin not at the level of proverbs and catch phrases, but as a foreign language. As for biologists, it seems to me that they mostly have to study Latin themselves, in any case, my friends did not teach it at biofacs.

01.06.2007 11:04, Tigran Oganesov

I didn't want to offend the knowledge of lawyers and biologists in any way, I just didn't know that lawyers really teach Latin not at the level of proverbs and catch phrases, but as a foreign language.

That's news to me, too. Do they really read Roman law in Latin smile.gif
You should ask a lawyer you know.

03.06.2007 22:41, Pavel Morozov

Well, if you remember the first year, then the professor just told us about "all sorts of dialects and schools." So, do not be offended, who has offended, but without showing off, I responsibly declare that on pronunciation issues (at least) it is better to ask Sergeich and me. (at least here in the entomology forum).

If you only knew how the teachers tormented us.
Likes: 3

13.06.2007 8:24, andros

And it seems to me that qu is read as ku, but if you add e or a to it, then it will be kve or kva. And in general, it seems that there was no word qu in Latin, so no one knows how to pronounce it.

13.06.2007 8:30, andros

As Moroz said, Now there are borrowings in terminology, nomenclature(medical, pharmaceutical), so the classics begin to disform and the language turns into a completely artificially created one. We created Hebrew earlier from Hebrew and Yiddish.

13.06.2007 9:15, Vadim Yakubovich

If you need to write the syllable ku, usually use the combination cu. According to the rules, qu is read as kv in combination with all vowels, with the exception of u. The syllable Qu is read as ku, i.e. sequuntur is read as sekuntur. By the way, there is another tricky syllable-ngu-. Its combinations with vowels are read as ngv. Lingua is read as lingua. Again, the exception is the combination with u, then it is read as nsu. The most interesting thing is that Latin was spoiled by borrowing even before the new era, and new ones were constantly appearing. But with the pronunciation of the question. Ignoramus et ignorabimus.

13.06.2007 12:02, andros

Qu and SU were different in pronunciation . As in Chinese, to with or without breath.

13.06.2007 12:10, Swansson


"tio" is read as "cio". In addition, the "t" at the end of the word before the vowels e, i, y is read as "c". If t is followed by h (th), it is read as "t".


Proceeding from this, it turns out that in the names: Acherontia, Macrodontia, Antia, etc. "t" is read as c? Or is it antia, acherontia?

13.06.2007 12:25, andros

Acherontia, macrodontia.

13.06.2007 17:24, Mikhail F. Bagaturov

Yes, it is true that if " ti "is before vowels, then it is used in pronunciation as "chi". However, bestia - be(e) stia (a), for example. I.e. after the consonants s, x and t-is pronounced as "ti".
Not Acherontia, but Acherontia...

13.06.2007 17:35, Mikhail F. Bagaturov

Going back...

In addition, the "t" at the end of the word before the vowels e, i, y is read as "c". umnik.gif


That's why all of a sudden so?
sapienti has never been read "sapienzi"... or I missed something...

14.06.2007 0:52, Vadim Yakubovich

Qu and SU were different in pronunciation . As in Chinese, k with or without a breath.

who would have heard how they were pronounced, we would not have reasoned. wink.gif

14.06.2007 0:54, Vadim Yakubovich

Proceeding from this, it turns out that in the names: Acherontia, Macrodontia, Antia, etc. "t" is read as c? Or is it antia, acherontia?

And who is Antia I only heard about anthia

14.06.2007 3:51, Shofffer

Sometimes you have to deal with the incorrect Latin spelling of the sound "h".

And how to write the sound "h" correctly ?
Probably "tsch", for example tschitscherini, Motschulsky.

14.06.2007 17:26, andros

And who is Antia I only heard about Anthia

Sergeyich, don't take it for a flood, but, why vney, in Latin native, so many letters To . Q, K ,C. And then there are thoughts that some of these letters served foreign words (like the letter Y). When comparing Different languages, it turns out that the other part was anterior-posterior-lingual and the other posterior-posterior-lingual. But what is interesting is that there was also a sonorous letter k-G is a sonorous back-lingual. It's nice that Latin is treated like a living language. wink.gif

14.06.2007 17:28, andros

Yes, antia, then bish antia, this is the one that stands before....Latin is a synthetic language.

This post was edited by andros - 14.06.2007 19: 42

14.06.2007 19:41, RippeR

Let's revive Latin!!!

16.06.2007 13:16, Swansson

With antiya, of course, the puncture came out, the example is not on the topic. But there's something wrong with acherontia and macrodontia. Not glued there c, and how many heard-all t say.

16.06.2007 14:18, RippeR

so potmou that even on the entire Forum know the rules of writing
eading only a few people..

17.06.2007 11:49, andros

Pay attention to the laws of euphony of the language( like Arabic) according to it, Acherontia is read as Escherontia. Although it is written differently.

03.08.2007 20:07, МАШКА-Х

HELLO EVERYONE!I'M NEW HERE!AND TO BE HONEST WITH LATIN FOR THE FIRST TIME WITH TALKIVAYUS!! confused.gif BUT I REALLY LIKED IT!I'VE COLLECTED A FEW PHRASES,BUT I DON'T KNOW HOW TO PRONOUNCE THEM...THERE ARE RULES FOR PRONUNCIATION, BUT I'M AFRAID TO MAKE A MISTAKE!WHO CAN HELP...THESE ARE THE PHRASES:
Ab hoc et ab hac-About this and that.
Adversa fortuna. - Evil fate.
Amicus certus in re incerta cernitur. - A friend is known in trouble.
Audaces fortuna juvat. - Fate helps the brave.
Auscultare disce. - Learn to listen.
Actum est, ilicet! - The job is done, we can leave!
Alia tempora!.. "Bad times!"
Angustie temporis. - Lack of time.
Amantes amentes-Lovers are mad.
Amantium irae amoris integratio. - The anger of lovers is the renewal of love (Terence) cf. Rus. "Cute scold - only amuse themselves".
Lapsus-A mistake, a mistake
Lupus in fabula-Is easy to remember.
Modus vivendi. -
Mala fide lifestyle. "Insincere, unfair.
Meliora spero. - I hope for the best.
Bene sit tibi! - I wish you good luck!
Con amore-With love
Fata viam invenient-From fate you will not escape
In aeternum-Forever, forever
Suum cuique-To each his
own Tale quale-Such as it is

THANK you IN ADVANCE!THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT TO ME!: -))

04.08.2007 8:18, andros

Ab hok et ab hak
adversa fortuna
amicus certus in re incerta cernitur
audaces fortuna juvat
auscultare disce
actum est, ilicet
alia tempora
anguistie temporis
amantes amantes
lapsus
lupus in fabula-the wolf in the fairy tale
modus vivendi
mala fide
meliora spero
bene sit tibi - (lit) it's good for you to sit.
com amore
fata viam inveniaet-fate chooses the road itself, explores
in eternum suum
kvikve tale
kvale

04.08.2007 22:04, МАШКА-Х

thank you very much!!!I JUST DON'T KNOW HOW TO THANK YOU ENOUGH!!!!!!!!THANK YOU!!!!!!! jump.gif jump.gif jump.gif jump.gif jump.gif

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