I want to be useful for science

You want to be useful to science. This requires a lot of hard work. Collect tons of material with accurate labels up to temperature, wind, etc. Analyze it and process it. Work on variability and dependency. Make up the habitats of the species in your area based on this material. Write books and articles for magazines. But the main thing is work work with the material and tons of material. Starting with imagos, pupae and caterpillars with eggs. And you also need to read tons of literature before all this))

To cosine.

So you will frighten the young man and turn him away from science. (on this topic http://lib.ru/DECAMP/19-02.txt )

You really need to work, but if the work is fun, then... As my supervisor used to say: "What a hobby I lost when I became a professional entomologist!"

Ah about books and magazines et you zagnuuuli))and tons of material, is it in the sense of the same types, or the amount of information?

To cosine.

So you will frighten the young man and turn him away from science. (on this topic http://lib.ru/DECAMP/19-02.txt )

You really need to work, but if the work is fun, then... As my supervisor used to say, " What a hobby I lost when I became a professional entomologist!"

I got a line about a time machine there, is it fiction, or is it a real message?

This is a fantastic story, but, as it seems to me, in the subject: "what will happen if it is good to explain to a person how difficult and thankless science is."

Ah about books and magazines et you zagnuuuli))and tons of material, is it in the sense of the same types, or the amount of information?

I just wrote it by myself))) I'm finishing the book "Nutcrackers of the Altai Territory". Yes, and I had to collect a lot of material, especially in terms of variability up to 60-80 copies. one type)) And without knowledge, not how ((So you need to read))

well, you're just great, as one of my classmates would say - "krasava, keep it up"

I just wrote it by myself))) I'm finishing the book "Nutcrackers of the Altai Territory". Yes, and I had to collect a lot of material, especially in terms of variability up to 60-80 copies. one type)) And without knowledge, not how ((So you need to read))

Good afternoon!

I would like to learn more about the book. What aspects will be presented there: only fauna, or also ecology, habitats, zoogeography with all maps and ranges? You will need to purchase it later!

It's all there) I'll post a couple of pages later, as a sample)

It's all there) I'll post a couple of pages later, as a sample)

what kind of example did you take?

I have reviewed many foreign and Soviet publications on entomology. And I decided to do something modern and at the same time new. As an example, I did not take anything, I wrote it myself, and the definition tables were taken from publications, but much was finalized by me. Especially variability and habitats. I decided to use photos as images. And the taxonomy is up-to-date. 3 years of painstaking work in 530 pages

And where will you publish it?

I haven't thought about it yet(( Maybe I'll do it in electronic form. Yes I'll get it online for free

with accurate labels up to temperature, wind, etc.

Are you serious or is this a joke? For example, I watched one insect (Scolia sp.) trying to understand where it hides after 12.00, it turned out-nowhere, it just prefers partial shade.

This is absolutely serious. I indicate the temperature, wind direction and strength, the Latin name of the plant where the insect was caught, the coordinates of the capture, the time, and the height above sea level. I also take a photo of the place, just in case. This can all indicate the time of activity of this type, etc.

This is absolutely serious. I indicate the temperature, wind direction and strength, the Latin name of the plant where the insect was caught, the coordinates of the capture, the time, and the height above sea level. I also take a photo of the place, just in case. All this can indicate the time of activity of this type, etc.

well, the coordinates and wind direction are clear, but how do you determine the height above sea level?

My navigator shows the height))

Collecting material, even in large quantities and with the correct detailed labels , is not a scientific job. You might as well make entomology boxes or sew nets, sell cell phones, or work as a bus driver. To make a contribution to science, you need to set and solve scientific problems, and publish the results in journals. To set scientific goals for yourself, you need to be well versed in this field of knowledge and know modern literature. Since beginners are usually not able to do this, a supervisor helps them at the initial stage. Otherwise, the result is the invention of the bicycle or the production of useless pseudo-knowledge. What, in fact, most amateurs and collectors do.

This post was edited by aaaaa-03.08.2011 14: 56

Collecting material, even in large quantities and with the correct detailed labels , is not a scientific job. You might as well make entomology boxes or sew nets, sell cell phones, or work as a bus driver. To make a contribution to science, you need to set and solve scientific problems, and publish the results in journals. To set scientific goals for yourself, you need to be well versed in this field of knowledge and know modern literature. Since beginners are usually not able to do this, a supervisor helps them at the initial stage. Otherwise, the result is the invention of the bicycle or the production of useless pseudo-knowledge. What, in fact, most amateurs and collectors do.

What are you doing? Well, share with us, clumsy, scientific you are our, what are such global scientific tasks you have set for yourself and are solving (or maybe you have already solved)?
What do you think is the job of collecting material, if not scientific?

This post was edited by kovyl - 03.08.2011 17: 00

> What are you doing?! Well, share with us, klutz

No question, I'll share it now. Collecting material is like picking mushrooms or potatoes, and it has no value in itself. Generally. To argue with this, you need to have an outstanding intellect. Which, obviously, you have in full possession.

I'll try to explain it again. Material collection is a tool, a method by which scientific goals and objectives are solved. Rather, it creates a base, a foundation, for solving such problems in the future. Depending on the specific goals and objectives, the method, place of collection and amount of captured material are selected. Also, labels are written depending on specific goals and objectives. In some cases, it is enough to specify standard data: location, date, and importer. In other cases, the biotope, altitude, time of day, forage plant, etc. may be important. In some cases, it is enough to collect single samples, in others-large series are necessary, and in others-you can limit yourself to observation. Not to mention the fact that depending on the group of insects and research methods, the material is fixed properly - spread out in dry form on cotton layers, mounted on pins or placed in alcohol. To summarize. Before waving the net, you need to turn on the brain and try to think: why is all this being done and who needs it?

This post was edited by aaaaa-03.08.2011 19: 39

> What are you doing?! Well, share with us, klutz

No question, I'll share it now. Collecting material is like picking mushrooms or potatoes, and it has no value in itself. Generally.

Here on the very first line you are wrong. Collecting the material, provided it is properly labelled, is valuable in itself. Since this very material is of scientific value (unlike the potato that you gave as an example). Even if the person who collected it will never process it. But the production of entomological boxes really has no scientific value, so it is wrong to compare these two things.
Next, you write that before collecting, you need to choose this and that (method, place, etc.). It would be good, of course. But can we always adequately match all this? This comes with experience and often not in the first year. But this does not mean that you can start training only when everything is perfectly matched.
Further. The content of labels is generally a big separate issue. See the corresponding thread. I will only say that since we are dealing with an infinite number of factors, they cannot be fully reflected on the label. It is quite possible that further research will require information that was not included there, so what-do not write labels?
To summarize. You can start swinging the net anywhere at any time with any level of training. Why this is done and who needs it is a rhetorical question. Maybe a person just likes to collect a collection. And then, you see, he will become more deeply interested, will learn more and more.

This post was edited by kovyl - 03.08.2011 19: 16

Yes, the material has scientific value , but the material collector is not automatically engaged in scientific work.

Yes, the material has scientific value , but the material collector is not automatically engaged in scientific work.

Yes, that's right. You wrote it more accurately. Collecting insects is a job that requires qualifications and often special knowledge, but nevertheless, it is technical and not related to science.

This post was edited by aaaaa-03.08.2011 19: 44

This is similar to a conversation (dispute) between the head of the lab and the preparator (laboratory assistant)... under "father Makhno", - in Gulyai Pole... That is, supposedly, the laboratory assistant (the one who" beetles ""boxes") is the main "researcher", and the "boss" is "so-so"...

Collecting insects is a demanding job.. often special knowledge, but nevertheless, technical, not related to science.

I'll digress a little..

yesterday, the news showed about the spread of the Colorado potato beetle..well, in general, there was an interview with my grandmother..she explained that she hadn't learned about these beetles for the first time...but the most interesting thing is that she mentioned that the ladybug is easier to get rid of than the Colorado potato.
so she thinks ladybugs are pests!
[and I thought that everyone knew that it (b.k.) is useful]
I almost fell off the couch
and recently I collected sawfly larvae, so 2 grannies asked about TICK LARVAE
Then I have a question ..you're talking about an incredible amount of entomos here. so, why such misinformation of the population?

  
so she thinks ladybugs are pests![/font]
[and I thought that everyone knew that it (b.k.) is useful]

http://www.agroatlas.ru/ru/content/pests/E...tioctomaculata/

thanks a lot, but she was talking about a ladybug, though..maybe she messed up

why is the population so misinformed [/color]?

I'll also digress a little from the topic.
At one time, we conducted testing for high school students. They were shown photos of birds and asked to identify who it was. The results are sad. According to the students, all birds were divided into those that are small sparrows. A little larger - pigeons. The larger ones are crows, and the largest ones are herons. Duck, eagle, and owl were also mentioned. EVERYTHING! It is sad to realize that young people have such knowledge about the world around them.

This post was edited by Alexey Vishnyakov - 05.08.2011 11: 32

thanks a lot, but she was talking about a ladybug, though..Maybe she got it all mixed up

What am I talking about? What do you think Epilachna vigintioctomaculata is not GOD's? Ladybirds are the Russian name for an entire family (Coccinellidae): http://www.zin.ru/Animalia/Coleoptera/rus/incocc.htm
And the beetle that you probably have in mind has the Russian name seven-point ladybug (Coccinella septempunctata Linnaeus, 1758).

This post was edited by Dmitrich - 05.08.2011 12: 19

I'll also digress a little from the topic.
At one time, we conducted testing for high school students. They were shown photos of birds and asked to identify who it was. The results are sad. According to the students, all birds were divided into those that are small sparrows. A little larger - pigeons. The larger ones are crows, and the largest ones are herons. Duck, eagle, and owl were also mentioned. EVERYTHING! It is sad to realize that young people have such knowledge about the world around them.

Alexey, but this is probably normal, well, why should they distinguish between any spotted eagles? Yes, you, me, and the visitors of this forum are interested in this ... and here I thought about insects - a waste of money, time (and sometimes it's just not safe to climb trees or escape from dogs) and at the same time I can't explain it to my family (java script:emoticon(':eek:') even to yourself) the goal of your hobby ...

I have reviewed many foreign and Soviet publications on entomology. And I decided to do something modern and at the same time new. As an example, I did not take anything, I wrote it myself, and the definition tables were taken from publications, but much was finalized by me. Especially variability and habitats. I decided to use photos as images. And the taxonomy is up-to-date. 3 years of painstaking work in 530 pages

Kostya, what are you doing??? How can you make such a publication without knowing the types, without going to museums??? Don't shock the public

Kostya, what are you doing???

Novel ! (He also buys from You, judging by the "secondary data", zhukof) You finally tell him to "rub your brains "(from the word - ftirat) that there are several districts in the Altai Territory, and each one should be "visited" (at least) before writing the great-grandsons of the Altai Territory.

Novel ! (He also buys from You, judging by the "secondary data", zhukof) You finally tell him to "rub your brains "(from the word - ftirat) that there are several districts in the Altai Territory, and each one should be "visited" (at least) before writing the great-grandsons of the Altai Territory.

It is desirable to visit, of course, but it may still be worth making several publications before the BOOK.

No, let him immediately read the book "Nutcrackers of Altai and Mongolia" (after all, there are probably already a dozen jokofs from Mongolia?).
[This tone is repugnant to myself; - well, how else can you teach young people?]

And preferably in peer-reviewed journals. Yes, and the definition of the material should be checked by specialists, given that some groups of nutcrackers (the same Hypnoidus) - require revision.

No, let him immediately read the book "Nutcrackers of Altai and Mongolia" (after all, there are probably already a dozen jokofs from Mongolia?).
[This tone is repugnant to myself; - well, how else can you teach young people?]

Let him write, of course, especially since it's already been three years. In my first year, I also dreamed of writing a book. Cost

Let him write, of course, especially since it's already been three years. In my first year, I also dreamed of writing a book. Costed it

Well, this is all childish and youthful maximalism. As a child, one of my dreams was to photograph all the famous animals in the world and publish an encyclopedia. At the end of school, I wanted to create a book about how to collect and collect beetles.

Let him write, of course, especially since it's already been three years. In my first year, I also dreamed of writing a book. Costed it

And I somehow redid the electronic determinant of daytime butterflies of the Palearctic, it turned out to be a book with color tables in the Microsoft publisher program.

And I once redid the electronic determinant of Palearctic diurnal butterflies, which turned out to be a book with color tables in the Microsoft publisher program.

What kind of opreelator is this? Could it be the entire Palaearctic?