Butterflies of the Carpathians and Dniester Canyon

So in Ukraine, Apollo seems to have died out?

I heard that in the Lviv region flies.

I heard that it flies in the Lviv region.

Flown

The Carpathians are not only Ukraine.That's why I asked.

Ivano-Frankivsk region.

Ivano-Frankivsk region.

What year is it?

If the gps coordinates are fresh and available I'll probably buy them

In general, I do not believe in the modern Ukrainian apollo, everything is too mysterious around this species, even the last find in the Dniester Canyon and then some kind of ghostly. Even if it were found there, and even if it is a very local and small population, then over the past 20 years this point would still become known and at least some number of specimens would appear in collections. And so, either someone is bluffing not clearly why, or keeps the point in a very big secret. And how can you sell apollo from Ukraine, if it is not actually in it, or is it just a divorce for Western colleagues

And how can you sell Apollo from Ukraine, if it is not actually in it, or is it just a divorce for Western colleagues?

It seems to me that the probability of its existence somewhere very local is not excluded. I do not think that Ukraine is too well researched, I do not mean the general level of knowledge, but a thorough study of the territory. For example, a population of P. euxina (a large and well-marked species) was recently found on the same khozhen-perekhozhen Chatyr-Dag. Why didn't you know before? It's just that no one has ever looked for her there. "Search" is not even the right word! A popular hiking trail passes through the habitat of the species, and butterflies fly up from under their feet.

This post was edited by okoem - 06.12.2009 14: 56

If we assume that someone found a population of apollo, then why not write an article about the modern discovery of this species. Then it will be possible to sell with a clear conscience, and buyers will probably be added

Then it will be possible to sell with a clear conscience, and there will probably be more buyers.

You can only sell apollo with a guilty conscience.

It seems to me that the probability of its existence somewhere very local is not excluded.

Everyone thinks the same about the Moscow region. Well, it does not fit in my head just that I could disappear completely.

It is necessary to conduct research-who is the collector, when they caught it, try to find it there. The Carpathians are quite remote places - anything can happen. Once a hundred years ago, I corresponded with a collector from Ivano-Frankivsk - M. Atamanyuk and received interesting butterflies from him in exchange. Just in case - I'd like to ask-is he in business now???
In general, the Ukrainian and Crimean Apollo with real finds - would be bombs! And what's so bad about a guilty conscience? What if Misterikus has a real apollo from Ukraine in his hands? Maybe this is a good discovery... Here I think it is necessary for colleagues from Ukraine to try to unravel this situation - well, who will go from Russia to Ivano-Frankivsk to catch butterflies. It's a local someone. We need to work very carefully here...

It is necessary to conduct research-who is the collector, when caught, try to find there..... Here I think it is necessary for colleagues from Ukraine to try to unravel this situation-well, who will go from Russia to Ivano-Frankivsk to catch butterflies.

If I knew the exact location, I could have gone to see it. And combing the entire area is not realistic for me.

This is understandable... What it's about. But the very fact of the offer of the Ukrainian apollo-you will agree that this is something very interesting. For example, I will also receive from Misterikus a very interesting butterfly from Siberia, which interested me with a non-standard point...

why?

Because...

...for Ukraine - the rarest species, the status is unknown, the state of populations is unknown. IMHO, in such a situation, start a business on this, how should I put it?.. it smells bad.

As for the place and date of capture... I suspect that we will never recognize it.

The dealer may not know that the Ukrainian Apollo is such a rarity.
You can find out the label by buying a piece. if there is an Ivano-Frankovsk reg. and that's it...
but something tells me that this will not be the case. The man in the leaf displayed inopinatus, simo, and good Pamir butterflies... It's not all that simple here...

Once a hundred years ago, I corresponded with a collector from Ivano-Frankivsk - M. Atamanyuk

Here he is, like, and caught apollo in the Dniester canyon in the 80's. The point seems to be there, a little vague, but it's not clear if there was a population there, they would already know about it, and why a single specimen, a stray migrant, or something, appears

The dealer may not know that the Ukrainian Apollo is such a rarity.
You can find out the label by buying a piece. if there is an Ivano-Frankovsk reg. and that's it...
but something tells me that this will not be the case. The man in the leaf displayed inopinatus, simo, and good Pamir butterflies... It's not all that simple here...

So it seems to me, and even if the label says " Ivano-Frankivsk region." then it is very much like falsification, because: "In general, the Ukrainian and Crimean Apollo with real finds - would be bombs! "

It seems to me that if someone really found Apollo in Ukraine, it would be a small sensation, and it would quickly spread, and I don't understand the point of hiding such a find.

No, I put it wrong - I don't think the label will contain only this information... I think that the label will be more detailed. The dealer has very interesting material - I think we are talking about a very valuable find... Managing one place is an interesting thing!!!

Honestly, I would really like it to be true!

Albatus, females two 83 mm and 67 mm.

Gena, you're really screwed. The material was published on September 1, 1996. Sold out ! I won't tell you the exact date for anything.

This post was edited by MisterXus - 12/06/2009 21: 36

No, I put it wrong - I don't think the label will contain only this information... I think that the label will be more detailed. The dealer has very interesting material - I think we are talking about a very valuable find... Managing one place is an interesting thing!!!

Apollo in Western Ukraine in recent decades, just no one caught.

Gena, you're really screwed. The material was published on September 1, 1996. Sold out ! I won't tell you the exact date for anything.

Well, make it public, I'm not talking about the point, but about the fact of capture, because this is probably the most recent find. And so the legend about apollo in Ukraine will simply grow with new rumors, and only a few people (the collector, dealer and happy owner) will know the truth, and will hide it from everyone, why?

ps: I'm sorry if I offended you in any way, I didn't want to hurt your personality, I just spoke out on a question that has been of great interest for a long time.

I won't tell you the exact date for anything.

What I said...

And so the legend about apollo in Ukraine will simply grow with new rumors, and only a few people (the collector, dealer and happy owner) will know the truth

Or so: the collector and dealer know the truth, but the owner does... wishful thinking.

I won't tell you the exact date for anything.

If the view at a point is extinct, then what's the point of hiding it?
If it is not extinct, then why are there no fresh collections?

The material was published on September 1, 1996. Sold out !

Mister Xus , I didn't understand something, the apollo copies from Ukraine were sold or not. I'm only willing to buy if you specify the exact location of your capture.

Already sold.

Already sold.

I understand that if I was caught, it was in the area of xp. Krasna or Svidovets???

who bought it, please let us know the point later! Thanks!

I don't know,I don't know...It was this apollo from the list that aroused interest.Despite a lot of other interesting species.But the seller's reluctance to specify a point is also understandable-why give out fishing spots?It's a pity, of course, that the butterfly is of undeniably scientific interest.But taught by bitter experience about label forgery (namely Russian dealers), I think.all this is fiction.You can write anything you want-and it is very difficult to determine its real location from a butterfly.Especially such a variable group as the Apollons.I didn't want to offend anyone,I sincerely believe that apollo should be in the Carpathians,but hardly in Ukraine...

It is quite possible to create a separate theme "Butterflies of the Ukrainian Carpathians" or "Butterflies of the Carpathian basin" with the subtitle "In search of Apollo". I'm quite serious. A few people are regularly caught there and could share the available information and discuss their collections and finds.

Open a topic?

Once a hundred years ago, I corresponded with a collector from Ivano-Frankivsk - M. Atamanyuk and received interesting butterflies from him in exchange. Just in case - I'd like to ask-is he in action now?"??

WELL, THE WORLD IS SMALL!
I know, or rather I once knew, Miroslav Stepanovich Atamanyuk. He lived and still lives in Snyatin. I was introduced to him by Vova Gurko. It was about 1989. I was just starting to collect butterflies, and Atamanyuk had a very large, immaculately compiled collection of daytime ones. He corresponded with many well-known entomologists of the union. Its thickheads from the Chernivtsi region were identified in Novosibirsk. I don't remember much now, but it was an interesting species that was first discovered in those parts.
I wouldn't be surprised if he managed to catch Apollo back then. With his experience and practice, this is quite possible. In conversations, we repeatedly talked about the Ukrainian Apollo, but the specific location was not discussed.
We often visited him and the communication was very informative and pleasant for me.
I'll have to get in touch with him. He is a very interesting entomologist with a cool personality and a great knowledge of the local fauna.
His photo is available on this site http://snyatyn.net/foto/lyudi.html

I've been watching a conversation about Par. apollo from the Ukrainian Carpathians, but I didn
't know it was so rare ,otherwise I would have caught it.Just in 2002, on the territory
of the Carpathian State Reserve, I saw two males, although they were very broken, so I didn't catch
them. They went up to Hoverla then, but I saw them not near the mountain itself ,but earlier, when they came
to the entrance to the reserve from Rakhov

A new topic is open for discussion of the Carpathian lepidofauna. The reason is the desire to find out whether Parnassius apollo still lives on the territory of the Ukrainian Carpathians.

This post was edited by barko - 12/11/2009 22: 59

I've been watching a conversation about Par. apollo from the Ukrainian Carpathians, but I didn
't know it was so rare ,otherwise I would have caught it.Just in 2002, on the territory
of the Carpathian State Reserve, I saw two males, although they were very broken, so I didn't catch
them. They went up to Hoverla then, but I saw them not near the mountain itself ,but earlier, when they came
to the entrance to the reserve from Rakhov

What date was it? If it is not difficult, indicate on the map the exact place/places where Apollo met.

Dear moderator, please move all posts related to the Carpathian P. apollo to a new topic http://molbiol.ru/forums/index.php?showtop...=0&#entry979374
Thanks!

What date was it? If it is not difficult, indicate on the map the exact place/places where Apollo met.

I join the question. Especially interesting timing! The location is basically clear enough, but the details wouldn't hurt.

I would expand the territory to the Dniester Canyon, which is still the last or one of the last finds from there.

I've been watching a conversation about Par. apollo from the Ukrainian Carpathians, but I didn
't know it was so rare ,otherwise I would have caught it.Just in 2002, on the territory
of the Carpathian State Reserve, I saw two males, although they were very broken, so I didn't catch
them. They went up to Hoverla then, but I saw them not near the mountain itself ,but earlier, when they came
to the entrance to the reserve from Rakhov

I spend half the season in the Carpathians, and I've never seen him.

I spend half the season in the Carpathians, and I've never seen him.

Not an argument. I spent four seasons in Slovenia, including in the mountains, but I didn't meet Apollo. There's plenty of food , but no butterflies. It turns out to fly in the lowlands along the river, from time to time climbing up a rocky slope. The slope is planted with shrubs and conifers. Part of the slope from the road is artificially made. The stones are imported, tied together with a metal mesh. The place is very small in size. If you do not know it, then it is difficult to find a butterfly.