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Identification of beetles (Coleoptera)

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11.04.2007 15:13, Bad Den

And the fact that the belly does not go beyond the nadra is normal, or it depends on the age of the beetle. (maybe a stupid question, but I don't really understand T-shirts)

This is normal for males, while a large belly is normal for females.

Likes: 2

12.04.2007 12:28, Cerambyx

Mr. Omar, have you ever seen Microdera? These black bodies are usually even smaller, with a more parallel pronotum. And Tentyrea nomas looks exactly like in the last picture.
In our species Meloe (s. str.), the phenomenon of curvature of the antennal segments in the male must occur in both M. proscarabaeus and M. violaceus, and in any case they are curved "sufficiently" in this specimen to make it a species of M. proscarabaeus (which it is).

This post was edited by Cerambyx - 12.04.2007 12: 29

12.04.2007 13:44, omar

Mr. Barbel, Tentyria nomas blackbirds are very common in our southern latitudes, so I know exactly what they look like. I have in my collection extensive collections of this species from the Crimea and the Caucasus. Many times I have seen collections of this species from different places in the collections of entomologists I know and museum collections. And the fact that you are not aware of the appearance of this large and easily diagnosed beetle indicates your extreme incompetence in the matter for which you vouch with the loud term "exactly". As for Mikey, you again take an extremely extreme position and take it upon yourself to challenge not only my opinion, but also the opinion of a specialist in abscesses, which is Mr. Milabris. As for the antennae, proscarabeus has a much stronger deformity, this is obvious.
Tip: maybe just barbels?

12.04.2007 13:56, RippeR

off/ /
fight!
//off

doedefinition!

according to my observations (viewing photos of tentiria):
chernotelka is very similar, the only visible difference that I noticed is that the tentiria have smooth elytra (in the sense of smooth, without curvature), and the one in the photo in the topic has 2 keel-shaped bumps (or how to call this) on the elytra, which forms a kind of longitudinal depression in the middle of the elytra

This post was edited by RippeR - 12.04.2007 14: 03

12.04.2007 14:39, Cerambyx

No fighting

, but throwing out phrases like "incompetence" is a much more extreme position

I collect tentiria from all the Orenburg steppes every year, and I have also seen a myriad of them. By the way, they have even more wrinkled elytra than THIS Tentyria in the picture. And I asked, by the way, about Microdera.
I have more than a dozen M. proscarabaeus (well, more than fifty - that's for sure), and the segments of the male antennae are variously developed, and THIS is obvious.
Mylabris, please dispel the public's doubts about the species identity of this poor T-shirt

12.04.2007 15:44, RippeR

And if it is possible-signs, how quickly to distinguish proskarabeus and violaceus, and that it is not clear to me, there are some ekz, I would like to deal with the group..
And still - I have males of violaceus-bends any not strong-in comparison with a T-shirt on a photo-in general very weak. and there is an ex with a strongly curved mustache, but I can't decide now who to refer

it to

12.04.2007 16:06, omar

Honestly, Moustache, I have nothing to add. But if you are stubborn, listen to the clear difference that Mr. Ripper has made to you. What you take for a tentiri is not a tentiri at all. Such strong differences do not occur in black-bodied animals within the species. And, just in case, go to coleopterists, see what kind of tentiria there are. And mistakes must be recognized, even if they are your own.

12.04.2007 16:17, Cerambyx

It's exhausting, honestly

. RippeR voiced not the differences from Tentyria nomas, but the differences that he saw from other snicks! Tentyrea is very variable by these characteristics! In the same population, there are all sorts of beetles-with and without indentation in the middle of the elytra, with a rough, sometimes even incorrectly wrinkled sculpture of the elytra and almost no wrinkles. Based on the coarser sculpture, attempts were made to distinguish the subspecies T. nomas taurica. By the way, sometimes the resulting depression in the middle of the elytra is often observed in similar groups of black-bodied birds-in Anatolica and others. So this is NOT a difference.

12.04.2007 16:26, Bad Den

Comrades, what is the problem?
A copy of the VO is available, you can run it according to theses-antitheses

Judging by the "green", the differences are rather implicit.
In Tentyria, the 3rd segment of the antennae is 2 times longer than the second, while in Microdera it is only 1.5 times longer.
Microdera (European species) is on average smaller (7.5-12), while Tentyria is larger (12-16)

This post was edited by Bad Den - 12.04.2007 16: 48

12.04.2007 16:46, omar

Oh, I looked through my southern training camps specifically... The darkling is most likely Microdera deserta. But not Tentiria... Barbel, look at the shape of the pronotum. In tentiria, it is always very sharply transverse. The top of the tentiria is always smooth. And , are they ever pressed down along the seam. So, I advise you not to go beyond your favorite group with the terminology "exactly". Especially when it comes to such large and well-distinguishable beetles. And IN the FUTURE, we will ask you to post a photo of the beetle "top view". So don't get tired of misidentifying unknown beetles, Mr. Moustache.

This post was edited by Bolivar - 13.04.2007 08: 46

12.04.2007 21:32, KDG

So, men-in the corners of the ring... If Nabozhenko comes out of the expedition , I'll show him a photo. I think you won't challenge his definition

The loser doesn't have to shoot himself

to Omar-Do not offend barbels, otherwise I will stop shooting

weevils

Likes: 2

13.04.2007 0:15, RippeR

hehehehe..... yeah...

It's interesting when someone breaks off, because both speak with accuracy

But the results are interesting to know

But I'm still more interested in the question of T-shirts.

13.04.2007 0:35, omar

So, men-in the corners of the ring... If Nabozhenko comes out of the expedition , I'll show him a photo. I think you won't challenge his definition
The loser doesn't have to shoot himself
to Omar - Do not offend barbels, otherwise I will stop shooting weevils

Yes, KDG, Nabozhenko's opinion is very interesting to listen to. So do me a favor. I've already loaded my gun." I do not offend barbels, even collect them from time to time. I get some good ones.

And for the elephants a separate respect.

13.04.2007 0:38, omar

Ripper: I don't know T-shirts very well. Therefore, I can't say anything. Actually, I have only 2 types, which are in question.

13.04.2007 8:26, omar

For okoyem: leaf beetle still Chrysolina marginata . And certainly not Chrysolina pliginskii - it simply does not have a red border on the elytra at all.

This post was edited by omar - 04/13/2007 08: 28

13.04.2007 9:31, Guest

I wonder, gentlemen, how you can tell the EXACT view from your photos, especially when you have a lot to choose from. In my opinion, there is always only a fraction of the probability of such a determination - somewhere the angle is unsuccessful, somewhere the color is distorted, somewhere the glare. What Mr. Omar takes for a border, for example, seems to me to be an unfortunate reflection of light... So be lenient and correct towards each other, everyone can be wrong, remember this

Likes: 5

13.04.2007 9:36, omar

Let's ask okoyem about the border! I think a distinct red-red border...Mr. Okoyem, please dispel our doubts about your leaf beetle!

13.04.2007 13:13, Cerambyx

The opinion that Nabozhenko will express is already obvious

, well, quite a banal fact: look at the head of this beetle, and at the drawings in the "green European part". Nothing to do with Microdera.
Tomorrow I will post pictures of different Tentyria, so that Mr. Omar is convinced of the variability

This post was edited by Cerambyx - 13.04.2007 13: 20

13.04.2007 13:35, omar

Thanks! In any case, your photos will be useful to society. Why is it already obvious? If this is the case, I am ready to repent publicly and offer my deepest apologies to Mr. Usach.

This post was edited by omar - 04/13/2007 13: 39

13.04.2007 13:41, Bad Den

Cerambyx, to be honest, the head in the picture is not visible very well

But what can be seen in the structure of the antennae is faintly similar to what is depicted here: http://www.zin.ru/animalia/coleoptera/imag...tyria_nomas.jpg.
In general, I will now express a seditious thought - this is Anatolica sp.

(note the white coating on the elytra and pronotum

)

For example, here (http://www.zin.ru/animalia/coleoptera/imag..._abbreviata.jpg) something similar - the plaque, however, is erased, but the sculpture of the elytra (indentation at the seam and wrinkling) are similar (but not 100%).

This post was edited by Bad Den-04/13/2007 14: 01

Likes: 1

13.04.2007 13:46, Cerambyx

Cerambyx, in general, I will now express a seditious thought-this is Anatolica sp.
(note the white coating on the elytra and pronotum )

There were also such thoughts. But Anatolica has a back pronotum with corners, and this beetle is properly rounded

13.04.2007 13:49, omar

That's an interesting thought, Budden. I'll try to check my Anatolyks.

13.04.2007 13:59, omar

By the way, gentlemen, about the corners. On the anterior margin, i.e. near the head on the pronotum, distinct angles are noticeable. On the basis of the pronotum, they also exist, just very small. Try photoshop. And the white coating is obvious, for observation +1 Buddy!

13.04.2007 14:05, omar

It was brilliant! This is Anatolica!

13.04.2007 14:12, omar

__________.bmp

size: 353.58 k
number of downloads: 532

Now look here! I apologize for stealing the picture from the coleopterists.

13.04.2007 14:14, omar

And why didn't I, an old stump, figure it out right away! That's it, I definitely won't have to shoot myself now!

This post was edited by omar - 04/13/2007 14: 33

13.04.2007 14:48, Cerambyx

Mr. Omar, I beg your pardon, but really, your joy is premature. There are no angles at the base of the pronotum, and I have often seen a plaque in Tentyria. This is NOT Anatolica.
And you should not shoot yourself in any case

This post was edited by Cerambyx - 04/13/2007 14: 50

13.04.2007 15:01, omar

Well, they won't let me shoot

myself, and I've never personally met a white-robed tentiri. You must be so happy. Or (which is also very likely) it's not tentiria. If you do not agree, we are waiting for Nabozhenko.

13.04.2007 15:43, stierlyz

For okoyem: leaf beetle still Chrysolina marginata . And certainly not Chrysolina pliginskii - it simply does not have a red border on the elytra at all.

And Chrysolina marginata, you know, is never blue. I don't insist on my definition, but it's not quite the same from the pictures. But where did you see the border, Omar?

13.04.2007 15:51, omar

The border is where the side view is. Take a good look. Most of all, I am confused by the red legs, and not the fact that it is blue (or rather, it has a purple metallic luster) However, I am also not quite sure about the definition - I did not say" exactly". Actually, I'm not sure that the margin is provided that the border has a place to be.

This post was edited by omar - 04/13/2007 15: 57

13.04.2007 17:36, Дзанат

For a long time I couldn't figure out where the photo of Chrysolina marginata was, only a week ago I determined and couldn't choose between Chrysolina sanguinolenta , marginata and there are still species with an orange border ,I don't remember right away.
Is this the beetle you're talking about?
user posted image

It doesn't look like a marginata, I think it's a different species.
PS I see the border in the photo.
Here's a beautiful one

http://www.koleopterologie.de/gallery/FHL0...-kozlowski.html

13.04.2007 20:55, Zhuk

Zhuk, may be sp3 and not from the Lathridiidae for cat. characterized by 3 chl. legs (could you take a look?) and max. size 3 mm.

I looked, not them. This one has more segments, in my opinion 5 (no binocular

) .

13.04.2007 22:48, Aleksandr Safronov

Pterostichus (Myosodus) sp.???
NW Kavkaz, Adygea, Pshekho-Su district, h=1500 m.
Maybe someone is familiar with this subgenus? I can't find any qualifiers for it!

Pictures:
picture: Myosodus_sp.jpg

Myosodus_sp.jpg — (54.78к)

14.04.2007 9:21, stierlyz

Yesterday I was not too lazy and looked into the acc. the box is exactly Ch. pliginsky in the photo. And there is no border in the photo, this is how the light falls.

14.04.2007 11:15, omar

If there is no border, I am ready to accept your version, styerlease. But for some reason the light seems to be a border

14.04.2007 11:41, stierlyz

I have at least 70% of leaf-eaters in Ukraine (excluding fleas), and I don't know any noticeably metallic-colored species with a clear border. And you, Omar, are characterized by rather categorical statements in very controversial issues, both on leaf-eaters, and on black-heeled girls and T-shirts, not to mention the conventionality of definitions for photos in general. Such categoricality is completely unfounded, and I think many will share my opinion.

This post was edited by stierlyz - 14.04.2007 11: 43

14.04.2007 12:01, omar

For God's sake, stierlise, how categorical! Mr. Moustache is categorical; it is he, mind you, and not I, who says "exactly" in the definition of a rather large chenotelka, which cannot be assigned to the genus Tentyria in any way. But if I am wrong, I will, once again, publicly offer my most sincere and fervent apologies to a young and talented person who has already decided on the family he wants to study.

14.04.2007 12:07, omar

By the way, Moustache is also categorical about T-shirts, read the posts at the beginning of the page

, determined by the way not by me, but by a specialist in abscesses. And I wasn't categorical at all anywhere, I just didn't agree, that's all

14.04.2007 12:11, omar

And about the red-edged leaf beetles with a metallic color - I have them, though not from the Crimea, but from the Caucasus.

14.04.2007 14:08, Archypus

Pterostichus (Myosodus) sp.???
NW Kavkaz, Adygea, Pshekho-Su district, h=1500 m.
Maybe someone is familiar with this subgenus? I can't find any qualifiers for it!

I have a passerby standing like lacunosus. But I don't know what the other members of the subgenus look like. This one is most widely used in the quotation Mark

Likes: 1

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