Identification of beetles (Coleoptera)

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31.08.2009 17:17, Victor Titov

If the red border is only on the sides and does not reach the shield (and it doesn't seem to reach as far as you can see in your "photo"), then there are only two options in your region - Ch. marginata and Ch. sanguinolenta. The first one has a shallow, shallow dotted line, and the second one has a rough, pit-shaped one.

I apologize, of course

, but Ch. marginata from Ch.sanguinolenta is already clearly different in habit and a mile away: marginata is smaller, more elongated (elongated), and most often brown in color, in contrast to the really almost black, larger and stocky sanguinolenta. Chrysolina sanguinolenta differs from another black and red - edged species, Chrysolina gypsophilae, according to the characteristics you mentioned: this one, unlike sanguinolenta, has a rough punctuation of the elytra, and, in addition, the inner edge of the red border of the elytra is uneven, jagged.

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31.08.2009 17:50, evk

I apologize, of course , but Ch. marginata from Ch.sanguinolenta is already clearly different in habit and a mile away: marginata is smaller, more elongated (elongated), and most often brown in color, in contrast to the really almost black, larger and stocky sanguinolenta. Chrysolina sanguinolenta differs from another black and red - edged species, Chrysolina gypsophilae, according to the characteristics you mentioned: this one, unlike sanguinolenta, has a rough punctuation of the elytra, and, in addition, the inner edge of the red border of the elytra is uneven, jagged.

Well, let's start with the fact that Ch. gypsophilae is unknown in their region, as well as in Siberia as a whole. And to explain about habitus to a person who does not recognize up to the genus ...
A clear difference is in the dotted line between the limbate and marginate. This is for a person who sees

It for the first time, you and I will not look at the dotted line!

31.08.2009 18:43, Victor Titov

Well, let's start with the fact that Ch. gypsophilae is unknown in their region, as well as in Siberia as a whole. And to explain about habitus to a person who does not recognize up to the genus ...
A clear difference is in the dotted line between the limbate and marginate. This is for a person who sees It for the first time, you and I will not look at the dotted line!

Dear Evgeny, I can't agree with you. We'll be looking through the binoculars and studying the dotted lines of the sculpture. And most people will not look at the punctuation of elytra, it is much easier for them, when possible, to distinguish beetles "at a glance", by their appearance (that is, habit). And what immediately catches your eye here? Ch. marginata is smaller, more elongated, not black, but brown (except for the border of the elytra). But for the definition of sanguinolenta and gypsophilae, the dotted line and the character of the edge of the elytra border are already "working" - here you can't do without habit.

However, I did not want to pick a fight with you at all, I have deep respect for your knowledge.