Soaking insects

and what is its advantage? the disadvantage is obvious-the difficulty in getting it out.

IMHO, there is no difference - the acidity/salt composition of water does not affect the desiccation process in any way. And as for the spores of any mold, which, theoretically, should be contained in ordinary and should not - in distilled - so they are so full on the body of any insect.

and what is its advantage? the disadvantage is obvious-the difficulty in getting it out.

Tap water that is unfiltered contains chlorine, which discolors beetles quite strongly. Verified!

To rpanin

If it is only a matter of chlorine, fill tap water in the dishes with the largest evaporation area and leave for 5 hours in a warm place without closing the lid and there will be no trace of chlorine.

To rpanin

If it is only a matter of chlorine, fill tap water in the dishes with the largest evaporation area and leave for 5 hours in a warm place without closing the lid and there will be no trace of chlorine.

It's easier to pass water right through the filter . 5 hours in the dynamics of everyday life is an unacceptable luxury.
In addition to chlorine, tap water also contains a lot of organic matter, which contributes to the growth of mycloflora, and this is fraught with the rapid formation of white plaque on beetles.

That's the kind of filthy water we have in Lviv.

This post was edited by rpanin - 12.03.2009 11: 57

I see, thank you. And if you add a little ethyl acetate to the water, the softening will not be better? After all, when it is frozen, it has such an effect on the joints of insects. Or is it better to use traditional alcohol or vinegar?

You can still boil the water)

I see, thank you. And if you add a little ethyl acetate to the water, the softening will not be better? After all, when it is frozen, it has such an effect on the joints of insects. Or is it better to use traditional alcohol or vinegar?

It depends on what you do!? I doubt that anyone will give you an unambiguous answer. I think that alcohol or ethyl acetate will not hurt beetles, but it's not a fact that it will help, and I wouldn't risk butterflies, since their pigment is not even resistant to light and time, not to mention chemistry. I wouldn't pour vinegar on either of them.
Ethyl acetate butterflies, I think, will hurt (perhaps the veins will become soft so much that they will easily tear). But I may be wrong, as I have always limited myself to water, and I have not experienced any inconvenience. Try experimenting on the banals with the time, temperature and concentration of additives in comparison with the control copies (just in water) and be sure to tell us about the result, I think it will be useful for everyone. A negative result is also good, advice from the opposite-what not to do. Good luck!!!

This post was edited by Jarik - 12.03.2009 18: 02

Warm water-soak for 1-2 days, depending on the size, in a plastic box with a tight lid. Long gone from the sand, desiccator. On a sponge. On a sponge cardboard.
There is a general cleaning service every month. Scalded the box with boiling water, boiled the sponge. No mold or anything else.
Dry land from 3 to 15 days.

2. Horses often grow fat and lose the brightness of their white stripes. I use the following technique for treatment( I borrowed it from Pavel-Entoterra).
a)We put the horse for 12 hours in ethyl acetate.
b) We change the e/a and put it in a new one for another 12 hours
c)We take it out and put it for 12 hours in the solution of hydrogen peroxide

I do the same with horses. They are perfectly degreased.
And with zlatkami this number will pass?

Butterflies are poorly soaked. Can you tell me what I'm doing wrong?

Plastic container 15x20, lid with rubber seal. The water is filled with a layer of ~ 1.5 cm, and several additives are added to the water. phenol crystals, ~ 5-7 ml of IPS.
On the foam rafts are butterflies (daytime, 5-6 cm span).

So on the 3rd day, the butterflies are very hard, on the 4th-a little better. I thought I'd hold it for another day - a particular mold grew overnight, and the butterflies remained practically unfit for spreading.

Is this possible because the lid is loosely closed? Although, everything is visually sealed.

By the way, one rhinoceros, golofa sp., was not just poured with boiling water, but cooked, and a lot of it, and pricked with boiling water (this is after 2 weeks of soaking). I only managed with great effort and the risk of broken legs. And you have everything going smoothly here...

And what were you starved of? Rhino in particular?
They send me some beetles that have been contaminated with either ethanol or methanol (by bathing). So these are generally something, almost like after formalin...

I put cotton wool on the bottom of the container, in rows, pour water. so that the cotton wool is sufficiently moistened, I put butterflies between the cotton wool so that the cotton wool reaches the roots of the wings. In this scenario, butterflies smothered by fingers, or ethyl acetate. and maybe something else, usually soaked from a couple of hours to 1 night. Nymphalids, fatheads, then probably pigeons are the most difficult to soak, parnassus is the easiest, and many satirids are the easiest.

Butterflies are poorly soaked. Can you tell me what I'm doing wrong?

Plastic container 15x20, lid with rubber seal. The water is filled with a layer of ~ 1.5 cm, and several additives are added to the water. phenol crystals, ~ 5-7 ml of IPS.
On the foam rafts are butterflies (daytime, 5-6 cm span).

So on the 3rd day, the butterflies are very hard, on the 4th-a little better. I thought I'd hold it for another day - a particular mold grew overnight, and the butterflies remained practically unfit for spreading.

Is this possible because the lid is loosely closed? Although, everything is visually sealed.

By the way, one rhinoceros, golofa sp., was not just poured with boiling water, but cooked, and a lot of it, and pricked with boiling water (this is after 2 weeks of soaking). I only managed with great effort and the risk of broken legs. And you have everything going smoothly here...

Insufficient humidity in the container. It should be placed on the heating battery (in winter), in the sun (in summer) or in the microwave oven periodically. I know people who stick it in the oven to speed up the process. By the way, in my opinion, in addition to the lack of heating, you make two mistakes:
1. there should not be so much water. Either wet sand, or wet foam rubber, or (I do this) wet wipes. It is wet, there should be no free water;
2. contact of the abdomen with a wet substrate is mandatory. It is provided by grooves in the sand, slits in foam rubber or folds in napkins. Otherwise, the process may take a long time and to no avail.

All this is repeatedly and in detail disclosed in this topic. Good luck!

PS. Personally, I almost never use antifungal / antimicrobial supplements. Unless, I add a little spitra sometimes. Water-boiled. It doesn't come to mold, only if I forget for a couple of weeks, but the water dries faster there: -)

And what were you starved of? Rhino in particular?
They send me some beetles that have been contaminated with either ethanol or methanol (by bathing). So these are generally something, almost like after formalin...

So they do not write on the labels, than they were stained, Maybe they bathed in alcohol, even from cyanides, it seems to happen.

And butterflies are starved of ethyl acetate, personally, last year ...

Nymphalids, fatheads, then probably pigeons are the most difficult to soak, parnassus is the easiest, and many satirids are the easiest.

Yes, indeed, there were more or less marigolds. But large mother-of-pearl and polychromatic flowers-we learned a lot about ourselves.

about microwaves - I stopped using them to speed up soaking - since soaking does not happen so gently, the wings can quickly get wet.
Putting it on the battery is not bad. but it is better not to bet for a long time.

There are different things from heating, not always the best, you should always look at each specific case. For example, I recently put Eneis on soaking, 2 of which wet their wings after 15 minutes in a container, without any heating, while the wings did not become soft enough to spread. The next day I spread them out,-2 just spread them out, and 2 first waited until the wings dried up and then spread them out.

In pigeons, for example, it is impossible to allow getting wet, especially in any Agrodietuses, which will then have a more beautiful pattern than they really are due to streaks after getting wet and partial color changes)

about microwaves - I stopped using them to speed up soaking - since soaking does not happen so gently, the wings can quickly get wet.
Putting it on the battery is not bad. but it is better not to bet for a long time.

There are different things from heating, not always the best, you should always look at each specific case. For example, I recently put Eneis on soaking, 2 of which wet their wings after 15 minutes in a container, without any heating, while the wings did not become soft enough to spread. The next day I spread them out,-2 just spread them out, and 2 first waited until the wings dried up and then spread them out.

In pigeons, for example, it is impossible to allow getting wet, especially in all sorts of Agrodietes, which will then have a more beautiful pattern than it really is due to streaks after getting wet and partial color changes )

That's it, so "contact desiccation" is evil

by the way, sometimes, in order not to have time to get the wings wet, you have to practically put your belly on cotton wool, so that the wings do not reach. And you can use it on the battery (my batteries were heated very poorly, so I put them down calmly, and those who have a good heat, then be vigilant!), then they usually soak quite quickly and do not get wet.

I like to put cotton wool on the bottom, because it is very easy to change its shape, just so that it fits the roots of the wings or whatever you want.

Very convenient with impaled headstock, the cotton wool is pricked up to the belly of the butterfly and the pin is stuck in the cotton wool in the container, soaking everything quickly. And butterflies with wings flat can be put on a" hill " of cotton wool.

contact desiccation is bad, only if it is not done correctly) i.e. direct contact with the wings, or too high temperatures..

Everyone adapts to their own methods, and chooses how it is easier for them.. I am completely satisfied with my version ) I tried a lot of things, and this way it is easiest for me to control the process

Here's the question: I don't want to do soaking yet. I want to collect the material, spread it out and prick it in a short time. And then again to the collection. Actually, the question is: how long (hours, days) do butterfly tissues (muscles, antennae, limbs) remain pliable for straightening? That is, after how long everything dries up and you can't do without soaking?

This post was edited by Dr. Niko - 24.04.2009 19: 20

Pigeons from paper bags can be problematic to spread out even in the evening after capture. Large nymphalids - a day. Large nocturnal ones - also about a day. I use plastic bags myself - even small things do not get stale in them for about 2 days. In general, what is not spread out the same evening, it is better to put on the mattress, because the mustache, for example, tend to harden in the heat for a few hours. We must immediately make a reservation that it all depends on how long the butterfly lives after being caught (it depends on how it was pinned down). Some nymphalids can remain alive in a sachet for up to 3 days, so they remain suitable for dissection all this time.

just a day? the wings can descend for at least a week, in some species even longer, and in nymphalids for a very long time. I calmly spread out butterflies caught in the evening in the summer in the morning or until noon.

just a day? the wings can descend for at least a week, in some species even longer, and in nymphalids for a very long time.

This does not mean that it is CONVENIENT to spread them OUT during this time

I just meant that many types of fresh dry for quite a long time, but it's not a problem to put them in the desiccator for half an hour to soften the dried mustache.

and you do not completely clog them )
Here on the 30th I caught a dozen butterflies and pinned them down quite slightly, today I spread them out with ease )

and you do not completely clog them )
Here on the 30th I caught a dozen butterflies and pinned them down quite slightly, today I spread them out with ease )

And then the nymphalids on the straightener agonize for another week...

And then the nymphalids on the straightener agonize for another week...

Well, you can press down and then ammonia. That's all.

I've always wanted to ask if I often see impaled butterflies in reports after night fishing. This is a volume for unpacking (until it is dry) or pricking valuable specimens and thus preventing them from erasing pollen and scales when stored on the mattress. If the second assumption is correct, the question is - when soaking a butterfly in a set with a pin, it does not rust. In general, forgive me ignoramus, it seems as if you should know, but I have a maximum of three night fees a year.

Some nymphalids can remain alive in a sachet for up to 3 days, so they remain suitable for dissection all this time.

At me once lemongrass within a week gave signs of life on a mattress. Every time I opened a, they wiggled their antennae a little. This is not a Gestapo experiment, it was just a case of this.

In general, it is best to prick all the different-moustached people at once, but in practice this does not always work (such fees take up too much space). So, for example, I usually pin only a part of the copies (for large-scale collections), and send some of them to mattresses. Soaks on the pins everything is great, nothing rusts anywhere (if the pins are of high quality, of course).

One more question. When soaking an instance on a pin, it may need to be lowered or raised at the tip. The puncture site is not very loose? Although I solve such issues by applying PVA around the pin and fixing it at the desired height.

No need to lower or raise, everything is perfectly soaked without it

No, you didn't understand when the instance was already soaked. And the butterfly was not at the same height on the pin, and you lower it or raise it. I just pierce insects not by eye, but by steps, so that the labels are stacked, the insects are at the same level.

I immediately prick at the right level (1-1. 5 cm from the head of the pin).

Gentlemen, Who can help you soak and spread butterflies for a fee?

Gentlemen, Who can help you soak and spread butterflies for a fee?

Where are you from?

How many problems...
Spread 1000 butterflies and everything will be OK
Yes pigeons and hesperides are a problem
By the way think about those who spread nepticulid

Colleagues, I know that when straightening soaked dried grass (butterflies), in particularly difficult cases, they somehow cut the veins from the abdomen so that the wings move better, but I don't know how this is done. Can someone tell me the methodology, I would not like to spoil the material.