Pierce through beetles in collections?

Paraphrasing the song of the group "Leningrad"

Horns, barbels, rhinos-head boom-boom-bam,
My brains are like a piece of bubble gum!
Someone glues, and someone pricks?!
I personally thump and can argue!!!

I would like to go to the sky, to the airport and to the sky!
A jungle, a jungle where I've never been before.
I'd like to go to the sky, to the sky, to the sky!
And fly to a place I haven't been before!

New species, there are many of them - the natives are queers!
If you want a lot of beetles-do not yawn, but fill your mattresses!
And in my head one thing-someone glues, and someone pricks!?
What the fuck - I get drunk and can speed up.

I would like to go to the sky, to the airport and to the sky!
A jungle, a jungle where I've never been before.
I'd like to go to the sky, to the sky, to the sky!
And fly to a place I haven't been before!

All this looks like some kind of mess - it's hard to understand:
Prick-it is impossible, and glue-supposedly possible...
There are many opinions: the pros and cons don't give a shit. The main thing is a lot of zamoreno!!!
Pasted, impaled - but I don't care,
Let's drink vodka better, not just a little bit, but faster!!!

I would like to go to the sky, to the airport and to the sky!
A jungle, a jungle where I've never been before.
I'd like to go to the sky, to the sky, to the sky!
And fly to a place I haven't been before!

Catch new species - don't worry about trifles - everything is banal!
The main thing is scientific, everything has already been agreed upon five hundred times...
If you want kohl, you want glue - it's not relevant,
But it's better to get drunk and, of course, speed up!!!

I searched the forum for a page about pins.... no why then...?
The question is what-prick there or glue beetles is a matter of taste and purse (you need more boxes). But to spread them out for drying on styrofoam than?
Recently, the good old "safety pins" or the ALL-METAL SINGLE-ROD PIN (1-30) that was produced in Moscow at Mostochlegmash OJSC 1000 pieces of Art. C3-0545 were lost for sale
. They were so convenient to spread insects....
On sale there are sets of such pins for 105-150 rubles. for 200 pieces. Did they become gold or something???

So I decided to speak out on this very important issue for me. So.
The topic of pricking or not pricking, I believe, is one of the most relevant topics of modern entomology. You see, there is such a thing as methodology in science.

Methodology is the study of methods, methods and strategies for studying a subject. That is, the doctrine of why so, and not otherwise. Let's try to figure it out.

One of the planes of space divides the insect into two unequal parts - anterior and posterior. Each of these parts is about half of the insect, i.e.: front (50%), back (50%). What these dry percentages provide for an entomologist is facts, hell, crucial information. Taxonomic, evolutionary, morphological information, and so on.

And what do these "stickers" do? They simply deprive themselves and others of the opportunity to explore the most important aspects of the subject.

- Well, it's beautiful, beauty wins! - they will say.

Bullshit. They can't just understand that this beauty is only 50%!!! And the remaining 50% are smeared with glue and pinned to a piece of cardboard.

It's like looking through a cloudy glass at a beautiful ground beetle, and saying, oh yes, aesthetically pleasing!

This post was edited by Tsutsugamushi-Fieber - 07.04.2017 16: 06

we started with the methodology, but slid to beauty the last two lines I cross out the whole attempt to justify the tattoo from a scientific point of view to hell. the philosophy of "beauty" is not here.
glue or prick is everyone's business, but you will agree - you can't prick a trifle. and returning to the methodology, we open the book of a century ago and see the same triangles and the same bars (G. G. Jacobson 1905 Beetles.... p. 97 fig. 201 with reference to an earlier work by Ortner), pm is absolutely not a newfangled trend, but just the basics of methodology in its purest form.
practical aspect-the pasted beetle is harder to part with its legs and whiskers, which can carry key morphological features.
well, about 50% - the plane and space is fine, but...open the determinant and count the theses in which only the signs of the lower side are mentioned, translate the resulting number into a percentage of the total number of theses you will find 50% throw me a link

Well, your remark does not pull on the role of a counterargument, anyway-I'm sorry to encourage you.

Glue or prick everyone's business? Perhaps it would make sense to accept this maxim as a guide to action, but only if we were all participants in some children's circle like macrame, embroidery, modeling or something else... And so, alas. You don't go up to a biochemist and say, " Adding EDTA or hydrofluoric acid to your blood serum is everyone's business. Here is something similar, then think for yourself - there is no desire to repeat yourself.

When, as a support, you were about to reach for a book by G. G. Jacobson, they say, save, come to the rescue, I was already wary: "What's he going to find out?" But no! Exactly the opposite is happening, and you have unconsciously turned to the very methodology with which I started my discussion. Jacobson, what does it say that you have the methodological right to glue everything indiscriminately? Where is it written there? Yes, a trifle can be pasted, but you can read V. B. Golub (2012) how it is generally done - with the edge of a triangle and only a trifle (!), so that the second half of the ventral surface is not affected by glue and cardboard. Feel the difference?

Read here (V. B. Golub, 2012):
- almost the entire surface must remain clean.
- to determine very often it is necessary to consider the lower part of the insect;
- especially make sure that the antennae and abdomen are free of glue.

About practical aspects. Well, yes, the experience is wise, why not give it away. If this is the case, then filling all your boxes with acrylic resin will certainly contribute to such an important task - saving antennae and paws)))

Somehow you easily deviated from the other person's train of thought. Where did I say that quote: "we count theses in which only the signs of the lower side are mentioned, we translate the resulting number into a percentage of the total number of theses."

Yes, even if the belly will be 0.001% of all tez, you that this is not enough!?!?!?!?!!!!!

Here everything is trite simple, I will try to explain it to you more clearly. Imagine that you are an alien who has seen a human for the first time. If a person is facing you all the time, how do you know what's behind them? Here on such special international examples, let me take my leave - we need to talk about more important things.

Here's what really bothers me, what worries and bothers me at the same time lately. Split, gentlemen! There is a split in our entomology community! No, it does not go through the problem, whether to glue or not to glue, these issues are ultimately solved. It goes through more complex issues, its facets being an amateur entomologist / collector, trying to turn amateur entomology into a sort of bottle cap collecting hobby if you will. The Soviet and now Russian generation of researchers of the insect world, it seems to me, was brought up on the works of such outstanding personalities as Bienko, Marikovsky, Plavilshchikov, etc., through whose works the red line passes the idea that your collection is not a sump of beautiful candy wrappers, it is something more-a contribution, even if only a grain, but a contribution to the universal a piggy bank of knowledge. Sooner or later, any collection finds its connoisseur-a scientist, and this gives an opportunity for new generalizations.

And what is a sticker on the die? Yes, this is just self-realization. Well, you glued the beetle to the cardboard, and then what? Where to put it later?
Dear sticker makers, think about the meaning of your collections, what awaits them in the future!!! Become a brick in the foundation of the universe, or a set of colorful icons? Before it's too late.

)))

The bug can be peeled off. For example, the same PVA leaves when steaming. So in terms of universal significance, the collection with glued beetles does not lose value, the specialist will be happy to reach interesting fees, regardless of the mounting method. Here in the expediency of gluing other groups, such as butterflies or flies, which will be killed by the very presence of glue, you can doubt.

Yes, of course, you can peel off-steam)) You can also not glue at all))

Just imagine the work of an entomologist to systematize a group of insects of interest to him: Day 1-steamed, looked at what was there from below, then glued it again. Day 2 - A new suggestion appeared, steamed it, looked at what was on the bottom, then glued it again. Day 3-I doubted the previous conclusions, steamed it ,looked at what was on the bottom, then glued it again. Day 4...... Day 2,000,000 th. Don't you think that working in this way is the delirium of a schizoid?

The specialist will be even more happy to get to the interesting fees issued according to the rules of science. Yes, yes, exactly according to the rules. Each science has its own rules, and they are formed not by you through stickers and admiring the pasted ones, but by the scientific community through scientific search.

Universal significance? Well, yes! And why not?
A collection with pasted beetles loses its value, because the main value of the material is its informative content. Scientific informativeness - that's the same aesthetics in refined form! You will pay attention to the publications of Western (and not only) lepidopterologists. In their books, they sometimes publish photos of butterflies that you would normally have thrown out a long time ago - all battered, shredded, without antennae, without legs, mangy. But because it is valuable!
As far as I'm concerned, any insect is valuable and should be treated appropriately.

  
And what is a sticker on the die? Yes, this is just self-realization. Well, you glued the beetle to the cardboard, and then what? Where to put it later?
Dear sticker makers, think about the meaning of your collections, what awaits them in the future!!! Become a brick in the foundation of the universe, or a set of colorful icons? Before it's too late.

And what is the pathological desire to get into every PERSONAL colloquium, and impose their views? Don't you care how and what people do in their hobby?!

And tell Mr. Jan Matejcek(Honza) about the uselessness of the pasted "set of colorful icons".

And I'm so pathologically eager to "get into every PERSONAL call" that's why.
Sooner or later, you will all be covered with land and your work will eventually be sold (or donated) by your grandchildren or great-granddaughters, maybe because there will not be enough for a new smartphone, or maybe for another bottle. The collection will have a chance to get to scientists. And the first scientist who will analyze all this, most likely will say: Damn, what m...k did this?

Is that clearer to you?

I know about the Honza collection, it's all sad.(((

And I'm so pathologically eager to "get into every PERSONAL call" that's why.
Sooner or later, you will all be covered with land and your work will eventually be sold (or donated) by your grandchildren or great-granddaughters, maybe because there will not be enough for a new smartphone, or maybe for another bottle. The collection will have a chance to get to scientists. And the first scientist who will analyze all this, most likely will say: Damn, what m...k did this?

Is that clearer to you?

I know about the Honza collection, it's all sad.(((

Yes, even if this collection rots, what will happen to it after my death, I don't care, because then I won't care about anything else at all!
"Geez, what m...k did that? "- it will not be a scientist, but the same m..k! Any normal scientist will be happy with new material that will be of interest to him, regardless of its mounting!

Various specialists work with the collection of Mr. Jan Mateychek, and I think that if they were not satisfied with the way the material was mounted, it would affect the collection itself! And since Mr. Yang continues to work in his own style, it means that the specialists are satisfied with everything!

And you don't need to try on the "function of God" and tell people how and what they should do!

This post was edited by Gray-Ejik - 12.04.2017 11: 46

Well, yes, and what else can you expect from this. First, he chopped up more animals, and then says, yes, let it all rot.

Well, yes, and what else can you expect from this. First he chopped up a lot of animals, and then he says, yes, let it all rot.

Well, yes, that's usually the case. When the arguments run out, you have to cling to the words, while losing the meaning from the context...
Shredded, not shredded... It will rot, it won't rot... What's it got to do with you?!

  
And tell Mr. Jan Matejcek(Honza) about the uselessness of the pasted "set of colorful icons".

Another argument about nothing. Of course, about the uselessness of the pasted "set of colorful icons" - this is just ridiculous (the friend was clearly overreacting).
However, raising to the absolute as the only acceptable one of the discussed methods of mounting collectible material (even tattoos, even gluing) is also too much.
The collection of the respected Honza in its aesthetics (its scientific value is generally a separate conversation) is almost perfect - and hardly anyone can argue with this.
But his approach to mounting beetles is just the same reasonable: a trifle and separate groups for which tattooing even large specimens is undesirable (the same "staffs") - only on dies, but the vast majority of "krupnyak" - impaled:
http://molbiol.ru/forums/index.php?showtop...dpost&p=1643715
http://molbiol.ru/forums/index.php?showtop...dpost&p=1585224
http://molbiol.ru/forums/index.php?showtop...dpost&p=1586682
http://molbiol.ru/forums/index.php?showtop...dpost&p=1585458

Once upon a time, this dispute between "stickers" and "kolschikov" was recognized on the forum as exhausted in view of its meaninglessness. Maybe we shouldn't resuscitate him.
Ahead of the field season-successful training camps for everyone (this is the main thing), and then as you want-prick, glue-who has the soul for what lies.

This post was edited by Dmitrich - 13.04.2017 00: 52

After a long break from collecting coleoptera (due to the appearance of entomological pins, dies, and other things on the market) I returned to this interesting task. And at the same time, the painful question arose for me: glue or prick (as the textbooks advise). After long-term doubts and analysis of his previous experience in pricking insects, he made a strong-willed decision - to glue. First of all, because it is very rare to prick an insect exactly at 90 degrees in two planes. And distortions are very annoying and spoil a hard-won copy. About small instances, the conversation is separate. They are usually glued to triangles, which also did not suit me because of the same distortions and the risk of injury of the mounted beetle. Indeed, some clover weevil is not a monohamus, in which it is easy to glue a mustache or paw. Therefore-only rectangles. For small beetles (up to 2.5 cm )transparent, for larger ones, cardboard is also suitable (there are simply no large transparent dies). I also believe that the dies should be unified in size and not depend on the size of the beetle itself. I use the dimensions type: 20x8, 25x9, 25x10, 30x10, 38x15 and 11x5. On dies 20x8 naklivayu copies up to 1cm; on 25x9 and 25x10 up to 3cm, etc.
About a hypothetical scientist who will study my fees after my death. I don't think it will make any difference to him if a bug is pricked or glued on - the scientist will immediately get into the genitals. This means that the material will be damaged in any case.
And then, as it was noted earlier: nothing prevents the scientist from peeling the beetle off the die. If the person who glued this bug didn't have hands growing out of their ass, then there won't be much glue, and they won't be covered in it.
And about how convenient the die is under the microscope, I generally keep silent.

This post was edited by Sordes pilosus - 13.04.2017 06: 14

If this is the case, then filling all your boxes with acrylic resin will certainly contribute to such an important task - saving antennae and paws)))

Tell a similar joke to paleontologists.

  

A broken beetle will always have a hole in it, and you can't cover it up (you can call it beautiful, you can call it terrible, but a hole is a hole).

Well, not always. If the texture and color of the elytra allows, the hole can be putty and tinted. I have such a trick rolled with smooth ground beetle, broscus and Aphodius fossor. Unfortunately, I don't have a camera, but I assure you: at first glance, the trick is not noticeable.
And yes, I am fond of bench modeling, so I have putty and paint, as well as the skill of manipulating small details.

I don't think it will make any difference to him if a bug is pricked or glued on - the scientist will immediately get into the genitals. This means that the material will be damaged in any case.

The scientist will reach into the genitals when he sees the ground beetle Tachyta nana impaled on a pin...

The scientist will reach into the genitals when he sees the ground beetle Tachyta nana impaled on a pin...

No, Nanosella fungi...