The Red Book and insects

We believe you... Your rake is not unique.

Yes, Kholodkovskiye nema now(

And I thought it was just a "square" Ukrainian taxonomy. Does Scorpio look like cancer? "let him go to the crustaceans. Why not?

You've got a lot of bad humor, seraph...

Oh, it's a bit steep with your rating; it would be worth it...

Guys, you won't believe what maduka publishers the authors had to work
with [...
So don't worry about correcting mistakes, I'll forgive your lack of understanding, my dear ones - we've corrected them ten times, now we're preparing Schmeisser and going to shoot them.

And no one says that all the authors and editors didn't care... for mistakes! It's just that the finished product is always evaluated. always. NO ONE cares about the process - and rightly so. Let's print bullshit, and then talk about how "it was hard" and "it wasn't up to us"... Let's start complaining - how much money someone spent on trips, how many problems they had with their wives, how many sleepless nights... What's the use? Bullshit is still bullshit. Well, even if the authors and editors are not to blame, but has anyone seen at least somewhere after the release of the CC article with corrections of all errors? Now, if respected authors and editors are not satisfied with the shame inflicted by "bad people" - they would write. What's the big deal? Especially if the book claims to have "scientific significance". Is there really no one else to write reviews besides Bolshakov? If such work still came out , I APOLOGIZE to everyone who was offended by my own words... But I don't know about this one...

This post was edited by palvasru4ko - 12/13/2009 04: 19

We regret to admit that T. palvasru4ko is right. For the reader, it is still more important to get a Red Book than a collection of stories about the reasons (valid and not so good) for its actual absence.

At the same time, we will not rush to state the absence of articles "with corrections of all errors", such things already technically take time. Let's wait a bit, time will tell.

  
At the same time, we will not rush to state the absence of articles "with corrections of all errors", such things already technically take time. Let's wait a bit, time will tell.

Articles about the mistakes of the 1994 edition can no longer be written, it is already necessary to "study"the new one... But if the new edition passes by the reviewers, it will be strange... On the other hand, to write a review of the entire CC alone, you have to be a hopeless idiot, an alien or a god... It is necessary that entomologists correct their own, ornithologists-their own, etc., etc., etc.... For example, you can criticize all the" byaka " about butterflies in one article... But it MUST be done... And do it not for criticism, as a fact, and to refer to the corrected. Otherwise, they will refer to defective essays... They referred to the "patsavatstvo" of the 1994 edition for 15 years... I can only guess how much nerves the authors spent... Here, sometimes 2 co-authors will not find a common language, and then they feud for a very long time, and here a bunch of people from all over Ukraine... Everything needs to be linked and coordinated... And then there are all sorts of government comrades (read - "zhopolizy") from the office of "aunts with a loaf on their head" muddy the water... Heavily... I don't dispute it... I just want this book to be as serious as possible... Well, if it didn't work out, you need to try to fix it somehow... You can do this, of course, on the forum with the whole team, but the status of such a review, I think, will not be very low...
So - we will wait...

This post was edited by palvasru4ko - 12/13/2009 06: 57

In principle, we can recommend holding a conference at the Institute of Zoology dedicated to correcting errors of the latest edition of the CCU. Publish a collection with a list of technical errors at the end. You can even make an electronic edition...

In principle, we can recommend holding a conference at the Institute of Zoology dedicated to correcting errors of the latest edition of the CCU. Publish a collection with a list of technical errors at the end. You can even make an electronic edition...

About the conference-correctly. And the "electronic edition" also sounds interesting... But the authors of the paper version should be interested in this. If they need it, they will do it. Just since there is no environmental sense in the CC (and there is NONE!), I want the scientific part to be pleasant.

подивився. ну просто якийсь приколіст киданув пів-академії в лайно. припускаю, що сам він серед тих редакторів і упорядників значиться. і радіє, як все у нього вийшло. для початку треба було би провести хоча б одну конференцію або нараду з приводу переліку видів для ЧКУ та категорій, які їм надаюсь. а ще б не заважало, щоб не до того, а перед тим все рецензували, чи як там у вас прийнято.... судячи з передмови, такого не було....

This post was edited by did Pyhto-12/13/2009 17: 08

подивився. ну просто якийсь приколіст киданув пів-академії в лайно. припускаю, що сам він серед тих редакторів і упорядників значиться. і радіє, як все у нього вийшло. для початку треба було би провести хоча б одну конференцію або нараду з приводу переліку видів для ЧКУ та категорій, які їм надаюсь. а ще б не заважало, щоб не до того, а перед тим все рецензували, чи як там у вас прийнято.... судячи з передмови, такого не було....

And you didn't learn the common language on the forum at school? (do not consider it a flood)
A request to the Ukrainian comrades: please read the previous post and indicate if it is "not in the subject", and then again it is not known what you can get to.

This post was edited by vasiliy-feoktistov - 12/13/2009 18: 19

Well, of course, Google Translator steers.... In the subject of the post, but really, if someone wants to be understood, he writes in the generally accepted language...

Well, of course, Google Translator steers.... In the subject of the post, but really, if someone wants to be understood, he writes in the generally accepted language...

Thanks! And I was really discouraged.
I'm translating URL#255:
I looked it up. well, just some prankster threw half the academy in the shit. I assume that he himself is listed among the editors and compilers. and he's happy about how everything worked out for him. first of all, it would be necessary to hold at least one conference or meeting on the list of types for chku and the categories that they should be assigned to. and yet it would not hurt that not before, but first of all reviewed, or whatever it is you have accepted.... judging by the preface, this was not

Thanks! And I was really discouraged.
I'm translating URL#255:
I looked it up. well, just some prankster threw half the academy in the shit. I assume that he himself is listed among the editors and compilers. and he's happy about how everything worked out for him. first of all, it would be necessary to hold at least one conference or meeting on the list of types for chku and the categories that they should be assigned to. and yet it would not hurt that not before, but first of all reviewed, or whatever it is customary for you.... judging by the preface, this was not the case

CCU
requires
foreword

CCU
for the
preface

This is how Google translates it (I didn't edit it).

This is how Google translates it (I didn't edit it).

It's clear. I just served in Ukraine - I don't need that Google...

And you didn't learn the common language on the forum at school? (do not consider it a flood)

Oh, many of my colleagues, advanced entomologists, but from the younger generation, cannot participate in the forum due to a language problem.
Therefore, I would ask you to be more loyal to the language barrier.
After all, if necessary, we understand both Polish and Slovak with Bulgarian, and Serbian, etc.

This post was edited by rpanin - 12/13/2009 19: 41

CCU
are necessary
to the preface

"I accept t" (in the original with a typo) = "provide"

Oh, many of my colleagues, advanced entomologists, but from the younger generation, cannot participate in the forum due to a language problem.

What's stopping them from opening their own topic/s in Ukrainian? The" Rules " of the forum do not restrict the use of languages other than Russian.

"I'll give you something "(in the original with a typo) = "provide"And what prevents them from opening their own topic/s
in Ukrainian? The "Rules" of the forum do not restrict the use of languages other than Russian.

Well, let's do the persecution of all accidentally got on our forum Czechs, French...Require them to write only in a clear language.
an inflection, isn't it? Entomology is not a pack of nationalists, but an international culture without political and national biases.

This post was edited by rpanin - 12/13/2009 20: 07

1. There is an environmental sense in the CCU, maybe, of course, not in full, as we would like, but if you have specific comments - that's what the forum is for.
2. About "mova" - now the CC of Ukraine is being discussed, written in Ukrainian, everyone was able to view (read) the essays they are interested in, so if it is more convenient for someone to speak in Ukrainian, there is no need to make so much noise about it, I am sure if the message was written in English, you would find the way to read it

Oh, many of my colleagues, advanced entomologists, but from the younger generation, cannot participate in the forum due to a language problem.
Therefore, I would ask you to be more loyal to the language barrier.

The language barrier is easy to overcome, if, of course, you want to.

And tolerance-yes, it is very necessary, and from both sides.

3. There were more than one conferences devoted to the new edition of the CCU, in fact, as well as articles devoted to errors, or rather shortcomings of the previous edition, although the materials published in them for the most part have sunk.
4. The proposed conference (publication) should be attended not only by the authors of essays, but also by other specialists in groups, sometimes it is more visible from the outside what shortcomings were made...

What's stopping them from opening their own topic/s in Ukrainian? The "Rules" of the forum do not restrict the use of languages other than Russian.

Well, this is too much. The forum has two "official" languages-Russian and English (read more FAQAnd if you can still leave a single message in a different language (which is already a sign of disrespect for the participants), then you can't leave a separate topic. After all, our forum is Russian-speaking. Some exceptions may be topics about exchange / buying/selling, where there are usually no problems with understanding.
This has nothing to do with" tolerance", just basic politeness. If a person is too lazy to translate their text in the same Google, then why should it not be too lazy for most forum participants?

Do not forget that any Red Book (of course competently compiled!) this is a chance to convey at least something to the people inhabiting a particular subject for example the Russian Federation! Here we have for example in the Penza region 1 copy was given to each school library and if these two volumes were on sale they would undoubtedly be bought! It's just a pity that the CC agreement does not provide for the MANDATORY creation of an electronic CC form!?? And in the Ulyanovsk region in 2004, the CC was published in general in several dozen copies for authors, and the publication itself in the form of an electronic version is quite accessible on the web...
And judging by how inevitably nature is changing - there is something to protect and from whom! Another thing is that often the CC is written by random people (who do not even want to listen to specialists and are guided by the CC of the USSR). That's the result most CC's are made for unsubscribing and cutting down money - of course, everyone will wipe their feet about them, and most importantly it discredits the very noble idea.

1. Don't forget that any Red Book... ... ...
2. And judging by how inevitably nature is changing - there is something to protect and from whom!
3. Another thing is that often the CC is written by random people (who do not even want to listen to specialists and are guided by the CC of the USSR). That's the result most CC's are made for unsubscribing and cutting down money - of course, everyone will wipe their feet about them, and most importantly it discredits the very noble idea.

1. You'll forget it here...
2. There were also directly opposite opinions.
3. You would have read all the posts in this thread...

Well, this is too much. The forum has two "official" languages-Russian and English (read more FAQAnd if you can still leave a single message in a different language (which is already a sign of disrespect for the participants), then you can't leave a separate topic. After all, our forum is Russian-speaking. Some exceptions may be topics about exchange / buying/selling, where there are usually no problems with understanding.
This has nothing to do with" tolerance", just basic politeness. If a person is too lazy to translate their text in the same Google, then why should it not be too lazy for most forum participants?

Dear colleagues from Ukraine and Moldova,
I really ask you to write in Russian, even with mistakes, this is nonsense... We all understand that there is a language barrier, especially now. But after all, the fact that everyone on the forum speaks in a language that everyone understands is great , and we all benefit from the public availability of information.
I write sincerely and hope for your understanding

This post was edited by Yakovlev - 12/14/2009 14: 32

Oh, many of my colleagues, advanced entomologists, but from the younger generation, cannot participate in the forum due to a language problem.
Therefore, I would ask you to be more loyal to the language barrier.
After all, if necessary, we understand both Polish and Slovak with Bulgarian, and Serbian, etc.

What's stopping them from opening their own topic/s in Ukrainian? The "Rules" of the forum do not restrict the use of languages other than Russian.

Well, this is too much. The forum has two "official" languages-Russian and English (read more FAQAnd if you can still leave a single message in a different language (which is already a sign of disrespect for the participants), then you can't leave a separate topic. After all, our forum is Russian-speaking. Some exceptions may be topics about exchange / buying/selling, where there are usually no problems with understanding.
This has nothing to do with" tolerance", just basic politeness. If a person is too lazy to translate their text in the same Google, then why should it not be too lazy for most forum participants?

I am sure that the overwhelming majority of forum participants will not even think of sending a message in Russian to an English-language forum. And there is no parallel between the use of the Ukrainian language and the use of Polish, Slovak, Bulgarian, Serbian, etc.in this case. Whether someone likes it or not, Russian was, is, and will remain the language of interethnic communication in the former Soviet Union for a long time to come. I can't believe that for someone in Ukraine, a serious obstacle to participating in our forum is the language barrier (they say, we don't know Russian). If this is the case , it is very sad. But it seems to me personally that the reason is different - all in the same desire to use any small occasion to demonstrate their independence. What's there to prove? What, do English-speaking countries, using the language of former colonialists, become less independent from this?

I can tell you honestly that most of the Balts (!) with whom I communicate use Russian in communication, write in transliteration, but in Russian. It's easier than it sucks for everyone to write in English.
I sincerely appeal to all non-Russians on the forum-write in Russian. After Penzyaka grammar, no one will say a word to you, especially since this is not a place for linguistic exercises.
Do not forget that we have on the forum Tatars, Udmurts, Chuvash, Mordvins, Kazakhs... I have one-twelfth of the Evenki blood... The beauty of the forum is its accessibility, we discuss issues that are interesting for all of us. So let's help each other with this.

This post was edited by Yakovlev - 12/14/2009 14: 53

If only it were Penzyaka...

And you didn't learn the common language on the forum at school? (do not consider it a flood)
A request to the Ukrainian comrades: please read the previous post and indicate if it is "not in the subject", and then again it is not known what you can get to.

Well, of course, Google Translator steers.... In the subject of the post, but really, if someone wants to be understood, he writes in the generally accepted language...

Thanks! And I was really discouraged.
I'm translating URL#255:
I looked it up. well, just some prankster threw half the academy in the shit. I assume that he himself is listed among the editors and compilers. and he's happy about how everything worked out for him. first of all, it would be necessary to hold at least one conference or meeting on the list of types for chku and the categories that they should be assigned to. and yet it would not hurt that not before, but first of all reviewed, or whatever it is customary for you.... judging by the preface, this was not the case

Well, this is too much. The forum has two "official" languages-Russian and English (read more FAQAnd if you can still leave a single message in a different language (which is already a sign of disrespect for the participants), then you can't leave a separate topic. After all, our forum is Russian-speaking. Some exceptions may be topics about exchange / buying/selling, where there are usually no problems with understanding.
This has nothing to do with" tolerance", just basic politeness. If a person is too lazy to translate their text in the same Google, then why should it not be too lazy for most forum participants?

Dear colleagues from Ukraine and Moldova,
I really ask you to write in Russian, even with mistakes, this is nonsense... We all understand that there is a language barrier, especially now. But after all, the fact that everyone on the forum speaks in a language that everyone understands is great , and we all benefit from the public availability of information.
I write sincerely and hope for your understanding

I am sure that the overwhelming majority of forum participants will not even think of sending a message in Russian to an English-language forum. And there is no parallel between the use of the Ukrainian language and the use of Polish, Slovak, Bulgarian, Serbian, etc.in this case. Whether someone likes it or not, Russian was, is, and will remain the language of interethnic communication in the former Soviet Union for a long time to come. I can't believe that for someone in Ukraine, a serious obstacle to participating in our forum is the language barrier (they say, we don't know Russian). If this is the case , it is very sad. But it seems to me personally that the reason is different - all in the same desire to use any small occasion to demonstrate their independence. What's there to prove? What, do English-speaking countries, using the language of former colonialists, become less independent from this?

I can tell you honestly that most of the Balts (!) with whom I communicate use Russian in communication, write in transliteration, but in Russian. It's easier than it sucks for everyone to write in English.
I sincerely appeal to all non-Russians on the forum-write in Russian. After Penzyaka grammar, no one will say a word to you, especially since this is not a place for linguistic exercises.
Do not forget that we have on the forum Tatars, Udmurts, Chuvash, Mordvins, Kazakhs... I have one-twelfth of the Evenki blood... The beauty of the forum is its accessibility, we discuss issues that are interesting for all of us. So let's help each other with this.

I hope that the person will understand everything after reading the reaction to his post, respect the other participants and start writing in Russian.
After all, he was able to read the topic and respond adequately (although on the move).
P.S. Yes, and the" nickname " will change (it also sounds incorrect).

This post was edited by vasiliy-feoktistov - 12/14/2009 15: 22

And no one says that all the authors and editors didn't care... for mistakes! It's just that the finished product is always evaluated. always. NO ONE cares about the process - and rightly so. Let's print bullshit, and then talk about how "it was hard" and "it wasn't up to us"... Let's start complaining - how much money someone spent on trips, how many problems they had with their wives, how many sleepless nights... What's the use? Bullshit is still bullshit. Well, even if the authors and editors are not to blame, but has anyone seen at least somewhere after the release of the CC article with corrections of all errors? Now, if respected authors and editors are not satisfied with the shame inflicted by "bad people" - they would write. What's the big deal? Especially if the book claims to have "scientific significance". Is there really no one else to write reviews besides Bolshakov? If such work still came out , I APOLOGIZE to everyone who was offended by my own words... But I don't know about this one...

Pavel, you're a little too hot. We were informed of the sad information about how the authors were THROWN by the publishing house and the ministry. No one is immune from this, not even you. Where in the Red Book of Ukraine is outright bullshit? Unrecorded points, g. o., hastily taken photos, mixed up inscriptions-but, again, for example, I am responsible for my part - everything is reliable there, I double-checked my files, not to mention that my bad Ukrainian has been corrected for the better. Articles with corrections of the previous edition of the CCU were, for example, in Izvestiya HEO. Articles with corrections of the current edition will also be published, I hope, but not in a week, it (CCU) just came out. As I said before, I have nothing to fix. For other types, perhaps. You will need to discuss it with your sympathizers and participate in a note on add-ons. By the way, this is what I called forumchan in the thread.

I missed the last page in the thread here, so I apologize if it's all of a sudden. About the current controversy - I will add from myself that yes, many young guys from Ukraine (especially in the West, although they also deliver unique products from the East and South) literally cannot write in Russian, although they speak. In the forces of forumchan to help them and not to cut from the shoulder about some background there. I strongly support everyone who tries to be polite to each other and to newcomers on the forum.

Pavel, you're a little too hot. We were informed of the sad information about how the authors were THROWN by the publishing house and the ministry.

And I, like, did not write that the authors are to blame for errors... I also heard this sad story... And I don't require an article with corrections right now! I just expressed my opinion that such an article is NEEDED. Maybe I'm wrong, but, in my opinion, for 15 years according to the CC of 1994, there was no such work... And all that I have written is precisely because of this, and concerns the 1994 edition! I would like that if there are any inaccuracies in the new CC , they should be corrected! If the volume of inaccuracies is really large. That's all! I don't want to offend anyone! I apologize if I offended you... By the way, the new CC is noticeably better than the previous one! I'll even say-MUCH BETTER!!! As for the unrecorded points... This is more of an insult to those who reported these points and wanted to see their last name... I don't consider this an error at all - it's "incomplete data".

Maybe I'm wrong, but, in my opinion, for 15 years according to the CC of 1994, there was no such work...

Pavel, they definitely were. Articles, meetings. There was no general monograph - well, that's right.

There was no general monograph - well, that's right.

here!!! I was talking about "generalizing" work! It makes no sense to talk about the old CC, but about the new one... You need to learn a new one first! And I just downloaded it yesterday, skimmed through the BIRDS section, and some things about butterflies... My first impression was good, and I expected the worst... Of course, many points are not taken into account (and mine, by the way, too), but this, as I already wrote, is not an error.

I suggest that posts concerning the language of communication on the forum be moved to a separate topic.

I suggest that posts concerning the language of communication on the forum be moved to a separate topic.

I think: Not worth it. It is enough just not to repeat this and close the conversation on this topic.

After Penzyaka grammar, no one will say a word to you, especially since this is not a place for linguistic exercises.
- I can express myself more grandiloquently (at one time I was a political agitator of the company). Just emotions prevailed over punctuation...
And at the expense of the fact that the Russian language is poorly known by the population in Ukraine and Moldova-THAT's RIGHT! My cousins live in Nikolaev and Bender, they told me... And God forbid you take off your polemics on political topics! They won't understand and will be offended. FACT!

Write boldly, Slavic brothers

My ancient article on this topic

Pictures:

________________.jpg — (311.39к)


____________2.jpg — (338.17 k)