How to go to Primorye?

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01.11.2007 6:53, Juglans

And from whose words, if not a secret?
I would not say that Bastak is such an interesting place, this summer I traveled around half of the reserve, curious, but no more (compared to Primorye and Sakhalin). But the Lower Amur is a fairy tale.

I judge by what the BPI staff collected. Not to say that there are MANY rarities, but there are Chinese species that are new to the Russian Federation. And for an entomologist, this is an indicator.

omar
Where I was born, there I came in handy (c).

When I was on the White Sea, in one week I found species (not insects) that no one before me (and, by the way, after) found. But, as I understand it, we are talking about collectors.

The issue of the cost of air tickets in recent years is very relevant. The search for economical options is familiar. In September, Vladavia, for example, staged an action when the ticket Vladivostok-Moscow-Vladivostok cost only 17 thousand. In March of this year, we bought similar tickets for the summer for 16 thousand (but no refund!), and in the summer they cost 34 thousand...

RippeR
It doesn't take much to live if you don't have a servelat every day. For example, it is quite possible to eat for 100 rubles a day. I have observed visiting Muscovites: most of them (but not all!) are people who are fastidious about food. Here, for example, the Germans and Czechs, and especially the Japanese, eat much more modestly.

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01.11.2007 10:22, Kruff

Juglans:
I would like to thank you again for your valuable advice. By the way, I managed to find a few really rare plant species, for example, Asian liverwort, galoscyastrum Tilinga, ginseng (pictured)

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There are only plans for the Kuriles yet, but I have friends who recently went there - I will have to ask them in detail. And these are people who a priori are not ready to spend a lot of money... Until this year, a trip to the Far East also seemed unrealistic, and I am gradually gaining confidence that nothing is impossible for a purposeful person (sorry for the pathos

)

Of course,$ 600 is not an indicator, we spent a lot of time before we found these tickets. On average, the road at that time cost 22 -24 thousand.

If you don't mind, I will slowly continue to post pictures so that interest in this topic does not weaken

Kedrovaya River:

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view of its valley from the observation deck. In the foreground are branches of Korean pine (Pinus koraiensis) and iron birch (Betula schmidtii):

user posted image

This post was edited by Kruff - 01.11.2007 10: 24

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03.11.2007 6:54, Ekos

I didn't just hear Ekos - this is information from professional entomologists, and one lepidopterologist (although not an expert on daytime ones ). And, again, nothing SUPER INTERESTING, but there are some new species that were not found in Primorye. Not the whole world revolves only around the bulavous...
I don't want to say anything bad about Streltsov, etc., but I still write about taxonomists (not faunists or ecologists!) a high category that has described many new species. Unfortunately, I just don't know any of them (if there are any, then there are only a few).

Is Bastak really Primorye? And, in general, what difference does it make who studies there, faunists or taxonomists?! What, the essence of the work is changing? The goal of our work there is an inventory of local entomofauna, and it doesn't matter who we are, taxonomists or faunists, the result will be the same, the main thing is to understand your group well. You have a strange idea of scientists, the more you describe new species, the more you respect them, judging by your statements. For that matter, I'll tell you in confidence that we're currently describing several new taxa of mace - sawyers from there. And what of it?! And Streltsov is not only an ecologist and faunalist, but also a GOOD taxonomist! If you don't agree, then you don't know much about his work! And I declare this responsibly! He is a very strong lepidopterologist, and in several groups, and not in one, as many, for example, from the BPI. And by the way, I know entomologists who have described a lot of taxa, but almost all of them are reduced to synonyms to existing ones! Summing up this, I will say that we should not be divided into taxonomists and faunists here, it is pointless, there are no such levels, in a good way!

03.11.2007 11:48, Juglans

>And, in general, what difference does it make who researches there, faunists or taxonomists?!

Very substantial. The taxonomist, of course, is a specialist of a narrow profile, but it is he who most often "notices" what ecologists and faunalists do not see. In fact, taxonomists are preparing the ground for researchers in other fields. And faunalists can study the same area for decades, but see that they are working not with one species, but with a complex of twin species.

>understand your group well

What does it mean to understand well? For example, I am well versed in 5-6 groups of invertebrates, but only one of them is a taxonomist. This imposes on me completely different "responsibilities": to approach everything critically. An ordinary faunist in his life may not feel the need to study typical specimens, but for a taxonomist this is the norm of work. And your protest is clear: This is the protest of a non-taxonomist, since faunists (ecologists) rarely understand taxonomists - for them the main thing is the definition of material, the identification of species, while for taxonomists this is not the purpose and essence of their work. The transfer of a species from one genus to another often causes a non-taxonomist to be annoyed and accuse him that, they say, taxonomists are engaged in very subjective things. Of course, there are both good and bad taxonomists. But show me at least one lepidopterologist from the same BPI, whose described species were MASSIVELY reduced to synonyms?

If we talk about the distribution of rare and endemic insects in the south of the Far East of the Russian Federation, it is well known that very few new species of mace have been described from here, even fewer endemic ones, and there is not a single endemic genus. Microlepidoptera has many more species known only from Primorye, and there are also endemic genera. And in beetles, for example, from Primorye, as many as 2 endemic families are known-Declinidae and Sikhotealiniidae, and the latter is found on the eastern slopes of Sikhote-Alin, which have never been famous for a rich fauna. Why in some areas, with a very rich fauna, there is practically nothing new, and in others-on the contrary, is already a general question. Of course, a simple collector, if you go to the Far East, will try to choose places where you can collect the maximum number of species in a short period of time. And I understand it perfectly. But for local entomologists, there are no such tasks, they have the same Khasansky district trodden far and wide. And for them, finding a little-studied leaflet in Bastak, previously known only from the vicinity of Beijing – is a more relevant event than just making a species list and publishing it in a provincial collection.

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08.11.2007 19:09, Aleksey Adamov

Citizens! In my opinion, you shouldn't be swearing!
It is not particularly important (for the case) who studies fauna, faunists, taxonomists or ecologists. The main thing is to study. It is even better to consult with leading experts on individual groups.
The work of taxonomists is useful for other taxonomists and for faunists, the work of faunists is interesting mainly for other faunists and for ecologists, and the work of ecologists is ultimately useful for everyone. In my opinion, a good faunist (now and in Russia) should be a normal ecologist and a bit of a taxonomist, a good taxonomist should be a normal faunist and a bit of an ecologist, a good ecologist should be a normal faunist (you don't need to demand systematic knowledge from him).
And as for mistakes, this is a normal matter (we are people). And as someone said, " Every sinner has a future, and every righteous person has a past

."

By the way, about the connection of the frequency of occurrence of interesting finds with the volume of fauna. Since 2002, I have been mixing the topsoil with Barber traps on an area of one hundred hectares. There are a lot of ground beetle species and there was nothing interesting for a long time, but in 2007 there were several very interesting finds at once (although so far only new data on distribution). It is believed that the growth area in relation to ground beetles has been studied very well, but these hundred-plus hectares have already made serious changes.

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09.11.2007 19:54, Juglans

Ekos
About Western taxonomists - I wrote about the Far East: among our taxonomists, I did not meet those who sell type series.

I learned more about Bastak:
Yes, the forest fauna of lepidoptera is an impoverished version of the coastal fauna, but swamps are of interest. They are diverse, there fly interesting species that are not found in Primorye. In Primorye, after all, there are problems with swamps....

Adamov
You wrote everything correctly, but the point is that the ecology of insects in the Far East is a special thing (both because of the lack of knowledge of many groups of insects, and because of the personnel problem). In the 90s, the BPI closed the laboratory of insect ecology (and not by chance). Now really good works on the ecology of insects (and the good ones are those that are willingly published by foreign journals) are done by a few, and mostly these are specialists in aquatic insects. Ecologists and faunalists use lists, but it is not always possible to immediately understand and verify how accurate these lists are, how accurate the definitions are. A person can be likable, talkative, knowledgeable about the subject, a good collector, but a bad "determinant". I still believe that "multi-point" (i.e., when a scientist is good here and there) is an ideal to strive for, but which is achieved only by a few. The best results are generated in the collaboration of taxonomists and non-taxonomists (ecologists, ethologists, etc.), although, alas, there are few such tandems
.
Personally, as a taxonomist, I am interested in ecological works only by those authors whom I trust. The most interesting works are those on nutrition, reproductive biology, and ethology, all of which the taxonomist can use for his own purposes. But there are fewer such jobs.... Everything is now overgrown with statistics, figures, graphs, diagrams, replacing the most valuable-observation and description.

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10.11.2007 6:43, Juglans

omar

Naturalism, in its best sense, is now seen as an unscientific approach. Serious scientists often shy away from naturalistic approaches. Alas, to conduct a study of the behavior-nutrition, etc. of some insects in Primorye, you need to live here. There are very few local "fanatics". Ethology was not taught in local universities and still is not taught. People from other regions come here only to collect insects. And, meanwhile, there is something that is insanely interesting. For example, studying the social structure of a relict cockroach. Practically nothing is known about the life of three local endemic species of cockroach twigs. Etc., etc. I looked at who wants to come here: mostly lovers of butterflies-objects of commercial interest. Meanwhile, in Primorye there are 9-10 specialists-lepidopterologists (6 of them are taxonomists) and only 2-3 coleopterologists (only one of them is a taxonomist, and even then he is about to be retired). It's sad...

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03.04.2008 9:25, Ekos

RippeR
I wrote about Lake HASSAN. Khanka is open - go to the health of yourself and local mosquitoes With the exception of only the most border areas of Khanka, but few people went there before. And the south of the Khasan district is the border with the DPRK and the PRC. Pigeon Cliff is a unique place with a unique flora. Only there they found the endemic genus of pigeons Goldia (thank you, Ekos told)

There's no sign of pacifics on Goldie's Pigeon Bluff! This is a purely non-morally wooded marshmallow species that lives ONLY on the Blue Ridge!

And it keeps high in the crowns. And on Golubinoe there is another very interesting type of pigeon (but already from poliommatiin) - Shijimiaioides divina. But recently, it has been discovered in other places in the south of Primorye, as well as in the Khabarovsk Territory and in Eurendia.

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