About tropics, merchants, and personal preferences

selected reptiles of insects
Surely someone had snitched on them?

There is a continuation:
"According to him, the detainees told him that they had come to South America to fulfill the order of Russian oligarchs - collectors of rare insects. If in Peru such copies can be bought for $ 20, then in Russia their cost can increase by 40 times. "

http://www.inline.ru/sobytie.asp?NewsID=155343

т.е.

There is a continuation:
"According to him, the detainees told him that they had come to South America to fulfill the order of Russian oligarchs - collectors of rare insects. If in Peru such copies can be bought for $ 20, then in Russia their cost can increase by 40 times."

Again, the media inflated everything to an incredible size!
As with Madagascar - they also wrote about a butterfly with a price of $ 2500.
Here, damn it, an entomologist, amateur or professional-through the media turns into a poacher-oligarch

Six thousand RARE insects. The stupidity of journalists and officials is boundless...

who needs 100 thousand rare bed beetles in their original packaging?

who needs 100 thousand rare bed beetles in their original packaging?

Et you bred so many of them for sale? And it is also very interesting, but what is the originality of the packaging? You are our merchant!

This post was edited by Dinusik - 12.12.2008 19: 08

of course, he bred, fed himself, his parents and the cat. It turned out a good fat offspring
In the original packaging - all skins during molting are preserved

of course, he bred, fed himself, his parents and the cat. It turned out a good fat offspring
In the original packaging - all skins during molting are preserved

So they are now of the same blood as you, and you are selling them!
I understand that the people brought 6 thousand absolutely alien insects for sale from a foreign country, and you brought relatives for profit...

so they are my relatives, I want a better life for them, so that they don't drink old blood in Moldova, but I want to provide a good future for children abroad in a good place..

The law and in a foreign country there is a law, the laws must be respected. In such an insect-rich region, everything wants to make a good profit, but ends badly.

A well-known entomologist was carrying beetles from Mongolia and was detained at the border. Zhukov was selected, released, and Mongolia was closed to him for five years. Greed ruined burr, did not share with the people with whom the expedition pulled one strap.

nah laws-steal, kill, beat insects!

poor Peru, left without insects after the raid of entomologists, ayayay..
It is good when there are laws and they are observed, but there would be more normal laws, so to speak, and people are more conscious.
and entomologists are really sorry, they were left without anything.. So soon yoo generally no boogers can be bought or exchanged

nah laws-steal, kill, beat insects!

Uv. Ripper is probably a sadist, if such thoughts come to mind! You can kill, exterminate everything of course, destroy rare species of insects, destroy populations, forests, well, fuck all this blame for people like you!

This post was edited by vitalbata - 12/13/2008 15: 07

Uv. Ripper is probably a sadist, if such thoughts come to mind! You can kill, exterminate everything of course, destroy rare species of insects, destroy populations, forests, well, fuck all this blame for people like you!

It's a pity that you didn't understand vitalbata. He said this with pure irony, to show where this attitude can lead.

It's a pity that you didn't understand vitalbata. He said this with pure irony, to show where this attitude can lead.

Yes, this attitude can't lead anywhere...
Anyone who has been to Peru (and, unfortunately, probably in any developing countries) knows how quickly nature is being destroyed there.
Naturally, a person who takes out insects without " papers "(in other words, who has not coughed up someone) is a poacher, a destroyer of nature, etc. etc. A person who reduces the forest to thousands of hectares is a respected businessman, a worthy member of society.

Prada, this is ironic
I can not say that I am against fishing for sale, but also that I am not against mass fishing..
I think the citizens clearly did not go fishing for themselves. Nevertheless, I am not for the fact that such fishing is absolutely stopped - not everyone in Peru can go and catch it themselves! Yes, and those who will go for themselves to catch, I do not want them to be hit on the head too..
The fact that the three of them caught 6 thousand specimens is quite a normal figure, especially for Peru - this will not reduce the number of species in Peru and it will not affect the environment.
But for Aktash, I'm afraid after Thaler's stories, when crowds of entomologists can simply trample out the hot spots, although judging by the reports there are still so many that everyone took at least 2 thousand.

I support Brandashmyg about Peru. In this regard, we need to catch everything there as soon as possible, because soon there will be no forest or nature there and there will be no insects at all, so it's better to let the "poachers" help preserve for centuries what will never be anywhere else!!

Yes, this attitude can't lead anywhere...
Anyone who has been to Peru (and, unfortunately, probably in any developing countries) knows how quickly nature is being destroyed there.
Naturally, a person who takes out insects without " papers "(in other words, who has not coughed up someone) is a poacher, a destroyer of nature, etc. etc. A person who reduces the forest to thousands of hectares is a respected businessman, a worthy member of society.

I don't agree, it's easy (and unfortunately habitual) to justify a small muck with a large one.
I do not know these people, but it seems like they said it themselves (I believe our consul) that they came not for science (and then I would have been for it), but for money.

What the fuck is science when people are long-time sellers of insects? So to speak, from old-timers, and commercial fishing for them is almost the main source of income?

I apologize to RippeR for calling him names! I do not excuse those who catch butterflies for business, nor those who destroy nature and cut down forests.

You don't have to apologize to me

Take a different look at these merchants. What they catch for the sake of money does not justify them as good people, for example, But look at the end result-collectors and scientists buy the material that they themselves could not catch, because they can not go there!

This is the same exchange or barter, only through money. For example, I caught something in a hot place for myself, and for others and change with them. But if I can't go far and go to a good place to catch some good species to exchange or for myself, but I really want to get a couple of interesting species, then I can buy them from merchants.

I want to say that merchants are not bad people in themselves and their occupation is not bad. Another thing is when a merchant does not know the measure and tramples and destroys everything in its path-you will agree that this is quite another - such people are like those businessmen who mow down everything.

I also can't even visit all the points in Moldova, I can't travel all over Ukraine, and even more so to a piece of Russia, and if it weren't for other entomologists and sometimes merchants, then there would be nothing in my collection.

Or let's say I'm writing a paper on scaraboids of the Crimea and can even go to the Crimea, but I can't spend from spring to autumn in the Crimea to get the right material, and I can't exchange with anyone, because no one has caught a lot and can't or doesn't want to exchange, but I can buy the right one material from merchants who accidentally or intentionally caught the material. Is that a bad thing?

This post was edited by RippeR - 12/13/2008 18: 15

  
Take a different look at these merchants. What they catch for the sake of money does not justify them as good people, for example, But look at the end result-collectors and scientists buy the material that they themselves could not catch, because they can not go there!

That's right, young man.

I apologize to RippeR for calling him names! I do not excuse those who catch butterflies for business, nor those who destroy nature and cut down forests.

Well, for God's sake, the flies are separate, and everything else is separate.... No need to mix merchants with those idiots who cut down forests, spoil the air with phenols and pour other petroleum products from tankers.
I was offended by the phrase about "catching for business"! Really, go to the yard and beat up the surrounding avifauna pretty well, be honest to the end, at least with yourself! Because if you are related to biology as a science, then I do not think that you will doubt the fact that the birds in your particular yard will be THOUSANDS of times more successful than all the entomologists of the planet COMBINED, and in a day....
And then, what do you think about the balance in nature? Are you familiar with the subject of population strategy? It seems to me that if a butterfly lays 1000 eggs, then TWO offspring must survive to maintain balance.... And that, in your opinion, 998 copies were also killed by merchants, or are there still other culprits???

This post was edited by Entoterra - 12/13/2008 22: 57

By the way, I wrote regardless of the specific case. I do not know these people. The trend when "nature protection" is not just profaned, but is reduced to the protection of fauna from scientists, is simply infuriating. Exactly. Local residents don't care about anything (as they burned, chopped, shot, so they will), businessmen, including from the fauna trade, will always find a hole (there is enough money!) - scientists remain in the worst position.
In no case do I deny the need to somehow regulate (specifically regulate) commercial fishing.

I don't agree, it's easy (and unfortunately habitual) to justify a small muck with a large one.
I do not know these people, but it seems like they said it themselves (I believe our consul) that they came not for science (and then I would have been for it), but for money.

And as for the "small muck".
It is really possible to protect nature only in one case - when a significant percentage of the local population realizes that they need it (to protect nature). They have nothing to eat in developing countries. Therefore, all the beautiful people talk: "nature is our wealth, we will preserve it for posterity, a national treasure..."they have the appropriate price. Preserving nature should be beneficial! We were in a place where a clan of Indians collect insects on their land (for sale, of course) and let white people go fishing (not for free, of course). Thanks to this, the forest on their territory has a chance to survive. They need the forest, it's useful! If you imagine that some "green" ones will achieve 100% protection, i.e. nothing can be taken out of Peru at all, then for these guys the forest will not just lose its price - it will be profitable to cut down the forest, sell the wood, and plant bananas in an empty place.
From this point of view, even the most terrible commercial fishers are useful to the cause of nature conservation.

Absolutely agree!

Entoterra and Brandashmig, you have impressed me!! )

Entoterra and Brandashmig, you have me amazed!!)

With what, Ripper? Normal position, I fully share it.
And I know Boris Zhuravlev personally, I've known him for several years, albeit only partially.
Thanks to him, many years ago I got my first decent boxes, and collecting reached a new level. If there were more such enthusiasts, collecting insects in our country would cease to be the lot of oligarchs and fanatics.

This is not the first time that the issue of fishers and environmental legislation has been discussed at this forum. And all the time the spears are breaking around two questions. The legality of the persecution of insect catchers and the moral character of the so-called "commercial fishing" catchers themselves. But the strange thing is, everyone recognizes the absurdity of such nature protection measures, their ineffectiveness, but at the same time they admit that commercial fishing can be dangerous for the environment. Colleagues, why such hostility to merchants? "If you came for science, then I'm in favor, but if you came for money ..." Is the spirit of class struggle still beating in our hearts? Or do you seriously think that Orellana, who discovered the Amazon for you and me, had a degree in geography, and went on a hike in pursuit of scientific interest?

entomolog:
I have long held the view that even if you gather a bunch of entomologists and let them go to some place, they will never be able to destroy any population of butterflies or the like (Unless they just trample if the territory is very small..)
And here they clearly stated the confirmation of this opinion. Before that, I treated businesses with a slight dislike, not all of course, and now my eyes are so wide O_O and I understand why they were so narrowed -_-

entomolog:
I have long held the view that even if you gather a bunch of entomologists and let them go to some place, they will never be able to destroy any population of butterflies or the like (Unless they just trample if the territory is very small..)
And here they clearly stated the confirmation of this opinion. Before that, I treated merchants with a slight dislike, not all of course, and now my eyes are so wide O_O and I understand why they were so narrowed -_-

Unfortunately, you're not quite right. I was told of situations where hunters can almost destroy a population:
A small hill in the steppe where a local population of butterflies lives. These butterflies also fly out together, fly for a short time, etc. As I was told, such populations were almost destroyed by commercial hunters. I was told Latin, but I'm not a lepidopterist, so I don't remember it.
Clearly, such cases are a rare exception. "Normally" insects can be exterminated only by destroying the appropriate habitat.

Is the spirit of class struggle still beating in our hearts?

What kind of money do they spend abroad, the bastards? Unearned income however.

Not exactly. I tried it myself and it turned out that any commerce is respected when it is within the rules (not concepts), especially in someone else's "apartment". Although it is on this forum that I am more interested in the life of insects.

Dear Amara, and you can honestly look into the eyes and point by point (1,2,3...): what is so hated by merchants? If only by the fact that some people may have succeeded in something, but you don't have it in this direction, or it's just envious, as in the old days, that the neighbor's hut doesn't light up in any way - this is one thing, maybe it's worth rummaging in yourself.
If the hatred is related to some harm caused by merchants (meaning ONLY insect collectors, deforestation, etc. we do not mean) the NUMBER of insects, then please CORRECTLY justify your position.
What do you call RULES and CONCEPTS???? And who made up the rules??? Aren't those LOSERS from various nature protection organizations who have not achieved ANYTHING in science, not, sorry, in commerce, and only launder money allocated by all sorts of dubious funds, entering Papilio machaon in the Red Books, just because he doesn't fly on the 17th floor of their office on Novy Arbat. Think about who comes up with SUCH rules, those who have NEVER picked up a net. It's just too weak to protect forests, fight pollution, and so on - because it's DIFFICULT and requires WORK, and here, alas.... These are not the right people... The Red Book is warm, well-fed, cozy and flies do not bite, and then, even if the grass does not grow...

Unfortunately, you're not quite right. I was told of situations where hunters can almost destroy a population:
A small hill in the steppe where a local population of butterflies lives. These butterflies also fly out together, fly for a short time, etc. As I was told, such populations were almost destroyed by commercial hunters. I was told Latin, but I'm not a lepidopterist, so I don't remember it.
Clearly, such cases are a rare exception. "Normally" insects can be exterminated only by destroying the appropriate habitat.

Alas, so this population is doomed to extinction....
Diseases, predators, DESTRUCTION OF FORAGE PLANTS And then, I fully respect your opinion and you personally, in short, no offense - again facts???? "I heard, I don't remember, someone told me....." This is all in the stories section! Maybe someone will take the liberty to name at least one fact of the COMPLETE disappearance of the taxon "thanks" to merchants???? We are waiting-with a sensation!