Entomological labels

I consider the repeated reference to the historical dynamics of toponymy to be scientifically worthless. Historians would have climbed the wall a long time ago, but no, for some reason they put up with it, but we, you see, can't, the variability of names has overworked us for some three centuries.


And how much effort you need to spend on comparing outdated geographical names with modern ones, rummaging in search of ancient maps..... Believe me, it will take much more time and nerves than just entering a dozen digits of coordinates from a label into a computer
In general, the question of whether GPS data is needed on labels can be compared
with the situation with the old literature, where there is a lengthy description of species and unintelligible drawings, but there are no high-quality photos, with one glance at which everything would be extremely clear...
I dare to fantasize a little about what labels will look like in collections of the distant (and maybe near) future Instead of paper, they will be microchips on which literally everything will be recorded in electronic form: Date, time, coordinates, photos of the biotope, weather data and an enthusiastic voice comment on the day of capture

And how much effort you need to spend on comparing outdated geographical names with modern ones, rummaging in search of ancient maps.....

The old labels are just what they are, without gipiesu. I didn't personally search for ancient maps, as I don't know any ancient labels. And I fill out the current ones using the current cards. Having caught a butterfly in a certain village of Vasilyevsky, translating this village into a coordinate grid, so that later the reader of the label (researcher) translates it back into toponymy, for me it's like reading Pushkin in reverse, well, very accurate translation from the Chinese translation.

The previous arguments are still valid; I don't think you've reviewed them yet. Everything is already answered there.

  
I dare to fantasize a little about what labels will look like in collections of the distant (and maybe near) future. Instead of paper, these will be microchips, on which literally everything will be recorded in electronic form: Date, time, coordinates, photos of the biotope, weather data and an enthusiastic voice comment on the day of capture.

And even the squeak of an existing acherontia... I wish I could drink honey with your lips. God grant us all domafusailit until such times, of course... I'll support the first one.

This post was edited by A. J. Elez - 06.02.2009 13: 55

 
And even the squeak of an existing acherontia... I wish I could drink honey with your lips. God grant us all domafusailit until such times, of course... I'll support the first one.

Oh, come on! Just 10 years ago, no one could have imagined a cell phone. Progress is racing at a gallop, so we'll live to see it. Another thing is that the change of formats and storage media is rushing at the same pace. That's really where the trouble is, when the chip label in 5 years there will simply be nothing to read, so how is K. Prutkov? And don't forget the gig when you're on the railroad. Paper labels will live on.

Having caught a butterfly in a certain village of Vasilyevsky, translating this village into a coordinate grid, so that later the reader of the label (researcher) translates it back into toponymy, for me it's like reading Pushkin in reverse, well, very accurate translation from the Chinese translation.

Why, it's just a matter of a few seconds: enter the coordinates in the geographic information system and get information about the toponymy

And let's remember that more than 30 years ago, a postal code appeared on postal envelopes... Which is automatically read in Yandex. Mail... And how is this not an analog of coordinates? Unusual? So it's only a matter of time, but it makes it easier to sort emails. And this is not a fantasy at all.
As for reading errors, it seems that we are talking about statistical processing of a large amount of data. The standard technique for such processing is to discard extreme values that clearly fall out. This is quite common, and if the sample size is sufficient, it doesn't affect the result in any way.

After all, letters arrive at the post office not packed under glass. How did you read my message? In addition, I personally have not received mail items with such template indexes for a long time. It was about twenty years ago that they were in fashion. And they indicated only the number of the delivery post office, no more. Then they were delivered to the written address. Now there are a lot of envelopes and postcards of different types, the standardized ones are of little interest to anyone, and the rest are made out in a lot of different ways. Not to mention the more massive mailings. Once we had vending machines in Moscow selling sandwiches, like on B. Dorogomilovskaya or on Chekhov Street. Not every modernization takes root.

About explicit drop-down values. This method of statistical processing is good for another sociologist or someone else who is satisfied with averaged data, and in a specific article you would also have to think about what to do with NON-OBVIOUS dropouts. So, before that, we would have had to discard CLEARLY falling out from NOT CLEARLY falling out. Otherwise, the range borders will float fatally. After all, the error may be a small number, but significant biotopically. A list of localities by species (as well as a faunal list by area) is not a place to talk at the level of averaged values. Entomology will not thank you for such progress and for such accuracy.

Historical changes, of course, will have to be endured, as they were before us. Not only do the verbal names change-the landscapes are torn down by a bulldozer and buildings to a rusty grandmother, so what now - and do not mention the peat bog, resting on the satellite and indicating only the density of the soil under your feet in numbers? Vegetation cover also changes historically; so what? Or not to name the plant (after all, the taxonomy and nomenclature, God forbid, will change by tomorrow, and people will be too lazy to read "ancient" floral works), but to report all its measurements of tops and roots in numbers, counting on scanners of the XXII century and on the development of the Google Plant program? Not at all. We indicate what lived and was caught then; and if today this plant is no longer in that place or its name has changed, what is the great misfortune for today's faunal research? But in comparison with this, even the perestroika whistle of geographical names - ugh. False problems.

This post was edited by A. J. Elez - 06.02.2009 15: 19

It is good for you, who read digital labels, to see mountains, rivers, and villages behind the rows of numbers. And I can't do that, I'm not Neo.

It is good for you, who read digital labels, to see mountains, rivers, and villages behind the rows of numbers. And I can't do that, I'm not Neo.

Duc, we're just arguing a little bit. Personally, if I print these coordinates, then on the back of the label, the meaning of my part of the discussion is that just as we came to a single standard (Latin) in writing the view and removed all questions, so in the geographical part we will inevitably come to some standard. And I personally don't see any other standard than global coordinates yet. All the problems of the currently used geo-referencing method in this branch are clearly highlighted, and everyone already knows them.

After all, letters arrive at the post office not packed under glass. How did you read my message? In addition, I personally have not received mail items with such template indexes for a long time. It was about twenty years ago that they were in fashion. Now there are a lot of envelopes and postcards of different types, the standardized ones are of little interest to anyone, and the rest are made out in a lot of different ways. Not to mention the more massive mailings. Once we had vending machines in Moscow selling sandwiches, like on B. Dorogomilovskaya or on Chekhov Street. Not every modernization takes root.

And ZIP codes around the world also did not take root?

It is good for you, who read digital labels, to see mountains, rivers, and villages behind the rows of numbers. And I can't do that, I'm not Neo.

Here, however, is progress really galloping
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The Swedes have come up with a different solution, more modern and simple. In
Stockholm, they equipped the halls of the National Museum with special, compact Bluetooth transmitters placed near each exhibit presented to visitors. Every owner of a pocket computer or mobile WAP phone can now go to any of them and get comprehensive information about the displayed item, and when they want. The sensor responds to the approach of a person to each individual object. To do this, the Swedish masters had to activate the global positioning system (GPS) in the museum premises. http://www.ref.by/refs/67/35605/1.html
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I think that electronic labeling of various collections (and not only entomological ones) is just around the corner

Very briefly:
- and how to measure kilometers and with what accuracy?
- how accurate is the compass reading? an error of 1 degree will give, if I'm not mistaken, about 175 meters on the ground. And if we are talking about 100 km?
- how to account for changes in magnetic declination? And it, by the way, changes significantly faster than the continents move. But GPS takes these changes into account automatically.

I hope the idea is clear? And as for the General Staff sheets, why do you need the name in the header, if in the upper-right corner there is necessarily a sheet number on the global grid. Using this number, the position of the leaf on the earth's surface is determined unambiguously and quickly.

1) In the message you quoted (and not only), it says what is the most accurate way to measure distance on the ground today: using GPS and then linking to the map (unless, of course, you forgot to specify the scale on the map). Then you won't need a compass. The argument is not about this, but about whether this purely utilitarian figure should then weigh down the label and the life of followers.

2) An error of 1 degree will give an error on the ground depending on the distance. In places where there are lots of normal landmarks, the problem will not arise, since you will write " 2 km west of the mountains. Zvenigorod, etc.", rather than indicate "2000 km from Paris to the east" instead. At 2 km, these errors are not worth a penny. If we are talking about the desert, which was driven by T. Sukhov with Petrukha, then no faunist will scratch if you specify the mileage from the nearest city (not even a village). In solid sands and five kilometers - not an error in the faunal sense.

3) I do not catch insects on a grid, etc., but on the ground. And it is precisely in order not to depend on magnetic declinations that I start from actual, if possible, nearby geographical objects. So far, as far as I know, no one has had any problems with the interpretation of labels of this kind, if only they were drawn up with accuracy (and accuracy - as in any other business-is not always present, of course; but it is necessary to increase it, and not reduce it under the slogans of scientific and technological progress).

4) I personally do not need the name in the header of the sheet. What is the point of this remark? But, perhaps, these maps were made taking into account the fact that, using them, the military will not always find the place of this sheet in the blank throughout the USSR. Therefore, it was customary to include the name of the reference point (for the sheet), not necessarily the locality, in the header. I didn't invent it. I just gave (in support of the remark about deserts and small hills) an example of territories where, in case of something, you can't find close toponymic bindings for us and where you will have to indicate the mileage in such and such a direction from such and such an object located on another sheet.

This post was edited by A. J. Elez - 06.02.2009 15: 15

  
About explicit drop-down values. This method of statistical processing is good for another sociologist or someone else who is satisfied with averaged data, and in a specific article you would also have to think about what to do with NON-OBVIOUS dropouts. So, before that, we would have had to discard CLEARLY falling out from NOT CLEARLY falling out. Otherwise, the range borders will float fatally. After all, the error may be a small number, but significant biotopically. A list of localities by species (as well as a faunal list by area) is not a place to talk at the level of averaged values. Entomology will not thank you for such progress and for such accuracy.

Well, I agree, the analogy with statistics is really not quite accurate. On the other hand, the art of a researcher is precisely to choose and justify the rules for sorting data correctly. That is, the decision about the fate of a questionable point is up to you. In addition, the boundaries of areas in our time float much more fatally for other reasons than the loss of one or two points.

And ZIP codes around the world also did not take root?

I said, " not everyone takes root." I didn't say that "everything doesn't take root". I don't write labels in ink. And I'm not tapping on a water pipe with you right now.

And then: by "taking root" I meant not a few years. So I won't be able to answer your question for a hundred years to come. We have a new toponymy in the twentieth century, how well it took root, and then look, at the end of the century, toponymy floated in the opposite direction, and even zigzags. We'll wait and see. Salut!

Oh, come on! Just 10 years ago, no one could have imagined a cell phone. Progress is racing at a gallop, so we'll live to see it. Another thing is that the change of formats and storage media is rushing at the same pace. That's really where the trouble is, when the chip label in 5 years there will simply be nothing to read, so how is K. Prutkov? And don't forget the gig when you're on the railroad. Paper labels will live on.

I fully support the doubt. I remember with what matyugami I recently discovered deposits of 360 and 720 Kb floppy disks with information that barked at them. And, it seems, with what inspired eyes I looked into the future a few years ago, typing it on these floppy disks... In general, for the commonwealth of the iron horse with meat...

This post was edited by A. J. Elez - 06.02.2009 15: 08

It is good for you, who read digital labels, to see mountains, rivers, and villages behind the rows of numbers. And I can't do that, I'm not Neo.

A sober voice from Vladivostok. I recall how at the end of the twentieth century I labelled P. stubbendorfi and others caught by me something like this: Primorsky Krai, east. roadside of the Vladivostok-Ussuriysk railway 500 m south of the 9183rd km platform. Here is this tsifir so tsifir. People look at these labels with great respect.

I'm making my labels in Excel...I created it myself.
The size of 18 by 6 is for the date, and for the name-18 by 5.5.

I THINK IT'S OKAY

Primorsky Krai, east. roadside of the Vladivostok-Ussuriysk railway 500 m south of the 9183rd km platform. Here is this tsifir so tsifir. People look at these labels with great respect.

Now think about how much time you need to spend processing information from this label alone, i.e. in other words, if someone needs to enter this data in a computer database and mark it on a map, where is this point??? And if there are a thousand similar labels ? And everything needs to be mapped? And it's easy to make a mistake, too, by typing 9283-km, for example. This is me to the fact that our descendants will curse, processing them, remembering that in the XXI century there was already GPS

by the way, postal codes are a very convenient system, especially in large cities. When an index is written on a parcel post, it is brought to the nearest post office. Otherwise, they can bring you to the other end of the city, where it will be extremely difficult to find the right post office, while spending a lot of extra time..

and the coordinates of the lps are very good.

I think in the future it will be possible to come up with a lot of things
for example, I can come up with a system where there will be a single database, and under the insect there will be only a small device that stores the id in a common database, where any Bluetooth device can be considered any necessary information.. Something like this
But personally, I really like paper labels, I think not many people will refuse them.. Unless they can come up with a new material-instead of paper, for example..

Now think about how much time you need to spend processing information from this label alone, i.e. in other words, if someone needs to enter this data in a computer database and mark it on a map, where is this point??? And if there are a thousand similar labels ? And everything needs to be mapped? And it is also easy to make a mistake by typing 9283-km, for example

Who can make mistakes easily? It's easy for one person to make a mistake - the other person will correct it. The main thing is that the label is stored, and on it the information is given without error. Tea, retrograde wrote. So there's always something to double-check. But if there is an error in the label , then it's worse. But I've already written about errors and which ones are easier to fix and which are harder to fix.

I think more about how my label can be used by an entomologist, and not by someone for whom digitization is an end in itself. I also have my own databases, organized by both taxonomy and geography. At the same time, I do without systematization by meridians and parallels. If I go somewhere, I will go not in minutes and seconds, but like all people - to a geographical point. It's not a problem to mark this point of mine on the map, since this point is named without any ambiguities. Not every printed map has seconds, but modern, high-quality regional maps reflect railway platforms. And railway maps - no questions asked. Yes, there is also the Internet. We've mastered GPS, so somehow we'll be able to pull maps from the Internet - I don't mean those where the view sometimes increases almost to a scale of one to one, and the map mode of objects does not give anything smaller than a large village or a large river.

I will not worry about the difficulties that those who care not about the habitat of the species, but simply scratch their hands and break their heads with the translation of a normal language into Patsak will find themselves in. By the way, in relation to that particular label: there, even at the stage of its preparation and with GPS, you can't specify anything more precisely, read it again. And the fact that Eustace was forced by Alex to tinker with decoding messages was not because of the mania for encoding simple human words, but because of the speed of the text and the situation as a whole.

So if you come across "a thousand pieces" of such labels-ESPECIALLY do not torment yourself or people, but simply write in an article or book the information that is given in these labels, bypassing the translation into Chinese. And write the date immediately as it is, rather than translating it to the Muslim calendar and back. After all, otherwise your "thousand" then someone would somehow have to transfer back. It is better to "estimate" this and take care of those. It is even better not to repeat questions that have already been answered, and more than once.

A minute ago I received a book from Hungary (I don't know how to mark this place in GPS, but maybe they will understand), so I smoothly move on to another topic...

This post was edited by A. J. Elez - 06.02.2009 17: 38

you can't just limit yourself to zhps data, you can't just use numbers. But LPS data is very capacious in terms of content and small in size, which is the best way in the world to supplement the label with additional data.

I'll show you mine, too, otherwise Jomini and Jomini..."
Everything is in vordyaga, so they look like this at 500% magnification (in fact, it is difficult to work in the program at a lower level, and the pins vary depending on the volume of the text.

Where the platform is specified without explanation, it is not an approximation, but a fact: it was caught, therefore, on the platform.

I consider this accuracy quite sufficient.

Pictures:

etik1.jpg — (236.88к)


etik2.jpg — (740k)

I consider this accuracy quite sufficient.

And where is the name of the importer specified?

Nowhere. Actually, the conversation here was about accuracy in place and time; this is what they suggest to indicate by GPS (and not the last name of the collector). You don't have to criticize me, because I know that I'm technically doing the wrong thing by not giving my last name. I hope to eventually switch to the traditional standard with the last name of the importer.

But to do this, you need to grow up and feel more or less insured. The dilettante's position is such that it is not so dangerous for him to break entomological traditions as to break the law that prohibits the replenishment of private zoological collections, which has not yet been repealed by anyone. Bylaws do not directly address this, but the penalties for each filth are more than sensitive. There are a lot of other extra-scientific obstacles.

When I mature in this matter, I will write the last name vertically sideways within the same labels that I just laid out in front of you. Adding extra lines on an 8x18 mm label is out of the question.

So far, I am comforted by the following considerations:
1. Anyway, I have enough material (mostly foreign) from hunters who have no desire to advertise their surnames. The entomological world is full of such material. Otherwise, it is labeled perfectly, and either I or the last link in front of me can fully vouch for the accuracy of the data specified by the collector. This data is enough for science.

2. There is material from friends (sometimes outsiders are more lucky than us) who caught something for my sake and do not have the slightest interest and attitude to entomology. If such an I. I. Ivanov or P. P. Petrov is indicated on the label, what will entomology receive from this information, other than strict compliance with the external form? Identification of this or that layman can not be carried out by any GPS. Who is he, where did he come from, and where did he disappear from the entomological horizon?

3. Material from other collectors who have the opportunity not to worry about conspiracy, I have partially marked with surnames.

4. When my material gets to other (serious) entomologists, it is usually marked with my last name. But it is from such cases that I do not expect any troubles.

5. Of course, scientific publications should refer to the data of specific individuals and name them, and not some tenth hands. But, alas, I have not yet been referred to in the literature so much as not. There were cases when the information was received from me (as from the first person who found a certain point), and they announced it from themselves, thus acting as discoverers. I open the post and am surprised. Although I'm still alive and there are no problems contacting me. It is not so pleasant, having walked through gullies for more than forty years, then to find under someone's name a habitat point of a certain species that you once discovered, which the person knows from you and on which you yourself caught years earlier than he indicated (for his own fishing) in the publication. It is not so much vanity that gnaws at us as amazement at the breadth of other people's moral and psychological capabilities, especially within the framework of science. In such cases, the name on the label is not a guarantee that someone will take this name into account exactly where it should be taken into account and indicated.

6. The name of the collector does not seem to me such a significant detail that the absence of it could affect science. There is more formality here. In addition, I still know my material by heart, I have diaries of captures, and in time, I repeat, I'm going to re-test everything. And I put more important instructions directly on the main label: caught in the light, caught in mating, caught at hatching (before mating), bred from... and so on. If several mating matches of the same species are taken under the same date in one place, even pairs are numbered so that in the next world males do not confuse their females. What science doesn't need today may come in handy tomorrow. But the meaning of the surname of a collector who is completely insignificant for entomology seems to me very low and decreases more and more over time. We will all be there, and even if we find me, it will be impossible to ask me again about the details of the capture of this or that specimen.

This post was edited by A. J. Elez - 06.02.2009 19: 37

I hope to eventually switch to the traditional standard with the last name of the importer.

I wish you to switch to it as soon as possible!

well, it's not serious to miss the name of the collector. It's always easier to get a lot of information from the collector than from the label..

well, it's not serious to miss the name of the collector. It's always easier to get a lot of information from the collector than from the label..

I say that my plan is to switch over time to named labels (unless, of course, this tradition will not be removed by the majority of entomologists by then for the reasons outlined above). I can even promise you that. But others still label my material themselves almost always with the last name (if it's not against their own rules, then I'll pass), and I myself will not interrogate myself on my material. Others can at any time, while I'm still alive; so can those who haven't seen my labels and my material. And once I'm dead, even if my name is on the label, you won't talk to me again, and you won't get any additional information. But most of the entomological material in museums is accumulated by those who have long been dead. So even if I write down my last name, it will not be for this mythical benefit, but only for the sake of formality and just in case science needs it for something clever in the future. My colleagues are already happy to take my material. They need good material, but with a place and time, and they can write my last name themselves. As long as I'm alive, the material isn't anyone's, find out what you want; I'll disappear and I'll be useless.

We get information from each other both without material and without labels, by the way. A lot of things can be learned from books, and even on this forum, from those whose labels I have not seen in my eyes. On the other hand, there are a lot of labels in the world with the names of not only long-gone people, but also people whom God will not find alive. Of course, if we are talking about such collections that are valuable in themselves as a whole or collected by classics (Steven, Tsvetaev, Albrecht, etc.), such a mark makes sense (although it is often absent there, they tried to catch and study more). If the label contains the name of a great scientist, from whom the Academy (or somewhere else) has preserved a personal archive, then, of course, the presence of such an address will help you know who in the papers to look for details about trips and fees. But I don't consider myself a classic yet. And from most of us, alas, the diary scribbles will then go not to the Academy, but to Prosecutor Korzinkin.

I once thought about this question a long time ago, when I was waving a net with a friend in the Western Caucasus. A friend helps me for the sake of friendship, he has nothing to do with entomology, his last name and initials are such that there are quite a few namesakes in Russia. If we catch together in the same clearing, do we need to mark who caught whom or not? Here I will ask my colleagues for advice. Or should I mark everything with my last name? Where is the strictness then? And to mark the collector accurately means to address those who will work with the material, half of the individuals, not to me, but to a person who simply will never be identified in entomology, and no one will put him on the entomological wanted list; let's say I find him for you, but after all, he was of no use it would be zero, because he can't remember almost anything by species, since he knows less than a dozen of them by memory. So what did you get it for? I caught it, and that's fine. And catches and travels - God grant us so. And such cases in the life of an entomologist, when you have to catch with non-entomologists or take from them the material they caught individually (except for the name perfectly attributed), are full.

By the way, I'm not the only one who doesn't specify the last name of the importer. I know other non-professional entomologists (but they are very competent and experienced; and professionalism in this particular small point will do nothing, except perhaps superfluous dogma) who act in the same way and keep only those names that they really consider significant for the history of the species or for the history of science. They know the tradition, but apparently they allowed themselves to think about what it actually means, and for what rational purpose should it be followed? We're not maggots to kick out of instinct.

It's like a book: a book that Uncle Vasya has scribbled loses value, but a book with M. A. Sholokhov's notes adds value. A book with the library stamp of some vocational school is getting cheaper, while a book with an ex-libris of Count Sheremetev is getting more expensive. As the old Jesuit formula goes, when two people do the same thing, it's not the same thing. One gets dirty with notes, the other decorates. I'm still closer to Uncle Vasya, and those who have Sholokhov already have a flag in their hands. The day is not rubber, and life is one. I want to work really hard first, become an entomologist, and only then personalize the fees, sculpt my last name on cabbage rolls. So ride, prince, to the enemy's camp, Maybe I will not be left behind on foot...

This post was edited by A. J. Elez - 03/22/2009 23: 00

I myself have already encountered a problem when the same view from close places is collected by different people, and over time it is forgotten that I did not catch it, but someone else..
People who have already left have a biography, a history, and an inheritance. .After finding out who the importer is, you can find out where the importer has been and thus find places..
I mark my labels for myself and others, and for those who will use the material when I'm gone. I mark other people's materials for myself and also for others who will later get their hands on this material, not just to take care of themselves.
For me, the main thing is to convey information about the species, not to promote your name.

If someone does not do something ,if someone does something, if the majority does something or does not do it-even if they are unkind, but this is not a criterion for correctness. Therefore, the fact that someone somehow makes an argument is not.

About if 2 people together on the field went..
It does not matter who exactly waved the net or noticed a bug on a blade of grass.. If you were there and saw everything with your own eyes, then it is better to write your last name, if you have the ability to take responsibility for information.. After all, the demand will be from the person whose name is on the label, and if you have seen everything with your own eyes, then why not tell everyone what you know to others.

For me, the main thing is to convey information about the species, not to promote your name.

I agree with that. For me, too. That's why I write on the labels all the same things that I can then remember about the species (more precisely, so far about the instance). Perhaps I write even more fully, because just as time passes, a person remembers less about the capture, and not more than he remembered when he first wrote the label. In my opinion, this is usually for the memory of any person. Meters above sea level are not always remembered. And all that I can remember additionally about the same trip and fishing (with whom, say, we drank in the evening in a booth on the border of the Alps), has nothing to do with the specimen (or even with entomology in general), believe me. And I keep it only in memory, after me will not survive. I write down exactly entomological information in my diary. Actually, these records are then used to make labels - first rough ones for straightening, and then final ones (when the copy is already ready for putting in the box).

I want to say that I fill out the label in such a way that after filling out the label for each instance, I have no additional benefit from this instance and during my lifetime. By filling out the label, I repeat, I personally become absolutely unnecessary as a source of information on the instance. Unless only if you fill out an award list for scientific merit or, conversely, arrest for environmental reasons.

This post was edited by A. J. Elez - 07.02.2009 03: 10

  

About if 2 people together on the field went..
It does not matter who exactly waved the net or noticed a bug on a blade of grass.. If you were there and saw everything with your own eyes, then it is better to write your last name, if you have the ability to take responsibility for information.. After all, the demand will be from the person whose name is on the label, and if you have seen everything with your own eyes, then why not tell everyone what you know to others.

Yes, of course! I'll write my last name, of course. Moreover, the finds were not marked with surnames. We weren't so crazy out there in the clearing that we'd have to waste time trying to personalize our bags. But, therefore, we are already a little bit tired of being strict... The beginning is po-lo-same-but...

And if there is such a situation. The driver caught and brought me Osmoderma barnabita (the species, as you know, is not the most banal). This discovery took place two hours earlier and 150 km away. from me and my monotonous snoring (night fishing in the light affected). So how can I assign (there's no other word for it) myself as an importer, and even document it? And the fact that the label is a document, no one, I think, will argue. A passport, if you will. And at this stage of work, in fact, we are no different from the passport office secretary, for whom only two things are important: accuracy and uniformity. Now imagine a passport officer who, instead of performing her direct duties, goes into philosophical reflections and acts out of her own considerations of"meaningful expediency". Here it is "ruin in the heads" and begins…
And isn't it possible to do this: write the collector in the first place the one who "waved the net", and then the one who "got out of the net". In this case, in my opinion, both reliability and fairness will be observed (and it will not take up much space on the label). In the field, during the collection of material by a large group of entomologists, of course, situations can be more complicated. When it is not clear, in relation to each copy, who "waved" and who "got", then, in extreme cases, you can write down the names of the scavengers in alphabetical order. It is extremely rare that there may be three such records, but it is unlikely that more will be needed, since it is difficult to imagine more than three immediate (exactly immediate!)records at the same time. a participant in the capture of a particular beetle or butterfly. We probably won't need a group of beaters, since we're not hunting tigers after all.

Well, you don't have to push it to the point of absurdity
In this case, we are not interested in bringing the condition to excess accuracy (You will not specify what color the grass was in that place, how many clouds, whether the wind was blowing in your back or in your face, and with what skokostyu you ran when catching ex. This is nafig nobody needs). You can specify the names of collectors who were nearby, but it doesn't make much sense - so everyone will know that you didn't go by yourself, but with whom and where, and they will ask you if necessary. Therefore, it is enough to specify your last name, and best of all, your own if the copy goes to your own collection or is exported to other people's collections on your behalf.

But if the ekz is not caught by you, for 150 km, and even for 20, not in front of you, when you can not give an exact answer, except for " EEEEE.. Uh-huh.. Somewhere there, about 20 km in that direction, well, there seems to be a place there.. Uh-huh..I don't know for sure, of course.." what's the point of putting your own name?

For some, we are accountants, for others, we are philosophers. You can't force a person to do something. You don't write names, so what are you, an accountant or a philosopher?
And we must not forget that each person is a separate state that has its own labeling standards - who has the larger / smaller format, who has more labels, who has how..

  
I think more about how my label can be used by an entomologist, and not by someone for whom digitization is an end in itself. I also have my own databases, organized by both taxonomy and geography. At the same time, I do without systematization by meridians and parallels.

The entomologist's goals and objectives may be completely different, and the data on the label should facilitate his work.
I remember, long ago in Soviet times, there was a topic "about the harm/benefit of calculators in the educational process" It seems that we are arguing about the same thing.... Time will put everything in its place.

This is how things stand with the etiqueting of SCIENTIFIC entomological collections beyond the "hillock". Canadian Standard for Labeling (in English): http://www.biology.ualberta.ca/bsc/briefs/...elstandards.htm .
In attached - it's also in the web archive.
I won't comment on it. I will only say that the coordinates must be specified "there". And why this is necessary, this article is very clearly and in detail written.
By the way, Mikee hit the nail on the head: barcodes on tam labels are already used in practice, in large collections. It looks something like this:
http://www.sel.barc.usda.gov/Diptera/barcodes.htm. (personally, I didn't likeit)).

File/s:



 Canadian_Label_Data_Standards.zip

size: 113.1 k
number of downloads: 448

Then the RippeR. You, like everyone else, are free to make labels as you see fit, the business of the owner. I just expressed my opinion and tried to justify it. I absolutely do not need to impose anything on anyone, and even more so to invade someone's "personal internal statehood". And if you are interested in the label now only in the natural science aspect that answers the questions "where, when and how" this or that specimen was collected, then this means that there is no point in answering the question "by whom", because the label should already contain complete bioinformation, and, therefore, you should be searched for there is no longer any need to ask a question about an instance. Let's say that you still have some clarifying questions, such as about the weather, wind speed, and your running speed (possible questions will be of this order). It is good if you were found and you were able to give answers to such important questions without forgetting anything after many years. This is now, and then? When this option does not become available, then specifying the last name (and first name, of course, the same), if you follow your logic, will lose all meaning (there will still be no one to ask). But you don't take into account that every collector's item also has a historical value, from the very moment it was collected and then began to "live its own life", traveling from hand to hand, from collection to collection. That is why a copy of the cabbage patch from the collection of K. Linnaeus and mine, or, excuse me, yours, are not at all the same. We can't know what will happen next, and the neighbor's boy who brought you a geotube in his fist should be reflected in the label, if only because we don't know who this guy will become in the future (not necessarily in the entomological field!). If we do not do this, we risk not only sinning against the truth, but also depriving the copy of its historical significance (not to mention its commercial value). You don't have to worry about promoting your name, but why deprive the collected copy of what it is originally inherent in and what distinguishes it from its swarming, jumping and flying counterparts.

I've already answered these questions. But I guess I'll have to repeat it.

On the label, do not place absolutely all the complete information, except that only with coordinates.
If someone looks at the ecz, looks at the label and sees there-yes there.. and he will think "Oh damn, but I can go there and catch the species that interests me", But the data on the label will not be quite enough. because you can't fit everything. and then he can contact the collector, who can describe everything in detail, including small things such as the behavior of these insects in that place. how many times you need to sit down. rotate around an axis, etc.
After the death of this person, there is still a legacy from his stories, from his fellow travelers, from the history of a person. Thus, after finding out this or that information, you can learn more about the collection points. Since people die, but information about them remains, and as long as there are followers, students, students of students, friends, students of friends, etc., then it remains possible to find out about this or that place. about this or that type, only knowing approximately where the ekz is collected and by whom.. And you can also find out by name how good the collector was, which also gives some advantages, for example, about how carefully you need to search - after all, the species can become extinct. change the location, or maybe just hide well. It is also important to know the name in order to determine the accuracy of the information on the label. especially if the species is rare or commercial.. You can read the most detailed label, go to that place, and it turns out that this is complete bullshit, and the author specifically changed the label a little so that the view sells better or something similar.. Yes, and natural mistakes are often unavoidable-ochepyatka and all that.. I wrote to a person. clarified it and all that..
And also imagine this, an ex is caught by a person in a place where this person has never been.. What does it mean? It is possible that the copy is stolen or the label is shoddy, and others may suffer from this..

Everything has a historical value. but this is only for those. who values historical value.. But there are different aspects here.. Imagine a species in the Linnaeus collection that was still poorly studied and was not named, or it was named much later than Linnaeus.. And someone will surf its collections and see that the view is signed by Linnaeus with a non-existent name! So it turns out that the species has long been known, but just the description of the species is lost somewhere.. What then? This is the main entomological historical value.. The other one doesn't interest me. and those who are interested, they have the right to do as they please.

And if the boy brings a beetle in his fist, it will be marked on the label.. even if he can't say anything intelligible about this copy later, it will be valuable information about the copy.

Well, we came to almost the same thing, albeit through different verbal formulations.

Oh, I remember how once 3 years ago I was told by a souvenir and tropic dealer that labels are completely unnecessary, like Palearctic beetles...it is necessary to buy tropical ones from me - this is the whole world's head

Now I regret that I spent pennies on some cones without labels

This post was edited by Liparus - 07.02.2009 23: 50

sellers will say something else to sell the product Once I also looked at the butterflies in the frames with a peek, but now I want to spit on the quality, poor definition, lack of labels.

Oh, I remember how once 3 years ago I was told by a souvenir and tropic dealer that labels are completely unnecessary, like Palearctic beetles...it is necessary to buy tropical ones from me - this is the whole world's head

Now I regret that I spent pennies on some cones without labels

The situation is similar.Mistakes of "young" years.Now they're lying around in a closet somewhere, dusted with dust.

 
This is how things stand with the etiqueting of SCIENTIFIC entomological collections beyond the "hillock". Canadian Standard for Labeling (in English): http://www.biology.ualberta.ca/bsc/briefs/...elstandards.htm .
In attached - it's also in the web archive.
I won't comment on it. I will only say that the coordinates must be specified "there". And why this is necessary, this article is very clearly and in detail written.
By the way, Mikee hit the nail on the head: barcodes on tam labels are already used in practice, in large collections. It looks something like this:
http://www.sel.barc.usda.gov/Diptera/barcodes.htm. (personally, I didn't likeit)).

Well, you don't have to push it to the point of absurdity

The Swedes came up with a different solution, more modern and simple.

 
If someone does not do something ,if someone does something, if the majority does something or does not do it-even if they are unkind, but this is not a criterion for correctness. Therefore, the fact that someone somehow makes an argument is not.

  

Barcodes are why.They sell them in stores, like made in China.

Barcodes are why.

For ease of processing.