Entomological labels

Everything is just right, but, as it were, not in a human way.

Everything is just right, but, as it were, not in a human way.

Well, thank God for that. After all, I wasn't going to make people angry, but I shared with my colleagues in the shop my thoughts, which seem reasonable to me. And he answered objections. Thank you and no need, but it's too painful to take up arms. In general, as they say, "decide for yourself whether to have or not to have," and do not mention it with a vengeance. See you soon.

but I had a case that my last name on the label came across another person, which served me well by getting to know a person and for the material it may not be unambiguous..
Yes, and there were other cases, but now I don't remember exactly what and how.

And yours of course no one came across, You do not write your last name on the labels

Off topic, but still unsubscribe.
Hm Ausonia in Moscow? I don't believe it. She can't be anywhere near Moscow.
Are you confused with Zorka?
I don't believe in scolia either, unless someone brought it from the south and released it.

Several males were taken at the very beginning of the millennium on a ruderal site that had managed to settle down a little. And before that, it definitely wasn't found in that place. But in the last couple of years, the population there is also absent (in general, unsuccessful years for ausonia, it practically disappeared in our country). By the way, this information about Moscow has already been published in the literature. Ausonia comes to us along the banks of rivers, and even more so along the railway track: in particular, along the Kazan (I assume that along the Kursk) railway. If you want , I'll even write my last name.

In general, Ausonia has been marked in the MO since 1974. I caught it myself and just celebrated it regularly since 1990. In other years, it gave two generations and was locally very numerous (for example, along the edges of a resting field overgrown with cruciferous plants, it came across as a background view). North of the center of Moscow, in my opinion, was not marked at all. If several bad years go in a row, it may disappear altogether before the next brood. After all, with Colias crocea, for example, the same story. Sometimes you don't see it in the region for several years in a row, and then again it comes across for several years in a row. And this feature of it on MO has also been noted in the literature.

And to confuse Ausonia with zorka in your old age... Spare my gray hair. Yes, and we do not have a dawn for two generations. The most unique ones in terms of lateness are the end of June or the very beginning of July. And I caught Ausonia at the end of April and at the end of August. I'm not the only one catching it, many people have been catching it for a long time (though not in Moscow). By the way, the departure is very stretched, and generations sometimes overlap so much that the boundary between them can only be established by the degree of skinning of most copies. Back in the mid-1990s, E. M. Antonova (when I was telling her about the Ausonia populations in the Moscow Region) told me about her old suspicions that a double species might be hiding somewhere under Ausonia: one flies first, the second later. But this is not yet known in science, and since ausonia, wherever it may be, always produces two generations under favorable weather conditions, it would be difficult for me to assume such coincidences - that both species march around the planet hand in hand, and nowhere does one start without the other... However, you can also think about the experience that E. M., according to her, set up a very long time ago: the caterpillars of the first generation of ausonia were protected from parasites, birds, etc. However, not a single butterfly emerged in the second generation: all of them waited until spring and then hatched again in the spring. This reinforced her suspicions that the second half of the summer was just another species flying around. But, I repeat, such areal coincidences between the two species do not seem likely to me (and E. M. considered her suspicions nothing more than an assumption, which is still to be checked and verified). In addition, it is known that any captivity (even if it is close to reality) can delay the flight, and in this case, not just a slightly late exit (with the risk of leaving descendants without the necessary plants), but waiting until the next generation in pupae is customary.

As for scolia maculata, the specimen (male) was determined by the weimonists, there are no questions. And there's not much to confuse it with. We were, of course, pleasantly surprised, because this is not Voronezh. Caught also at the beginning of the millennium in Moscow (and not at all on the outskirts, but on an extremely settled area). I know the view, I caught it with a shaft in the south - the Odessa region, the Krasnodar Territory (and there are also many in Krasnodar itself), the Crimea. Previously and after in Moscow and in general in the Moscow Region was not marked by me (as far as I know, and in general by no one). Such things start up because of the favorable two years in a row, then such populations are covered (of course, before global warming affects us more). By the way, due to the warming and privatization of horse stock (and the presence of different sizes of horse farms in the Moscow Region and inside the city of Moscow), the dung fraternity has developed in our region, first of all, the rhinoceros has become more than ordinary, and in fact it is the main feeder for scolias.

If you have any more questions about this - we will not anger our colleagues, please leave in another topic and let us know the address.

by the way, the fact that a good find of some scientist was ignored lies not on the fact that his last name is on the label, but on the one who ignored it! This is just their mistake in this case.. and do not blame the names on the labels and those who wrote them!

I have already seen Rutpela maculata signed as Pidonia lurida, and if this information came to me without other data, I would be very interested, but I just want to laugh.. but then it goes to the article, then to another, then to large articles, faunal lists, etc., etc. And if only the data were preserved - such a species in such a place, without accompanying at least the name of the collector,then the error would be passed on.
And there are a lot of such errors! This also applies to definitions and fees.

And in general, many good arguments have already been made in favor of the names on the labels of fees. But you seem to ignore it, and sing the old songs again.

And yours, of course, no one came across, You don't write your last name on the labels

I don't write, and you haven't seen it. Yes, and would write - not the fact that you would get caught. I'm sure you didn't get my unpersonalized ones either. And you write, but I still didn't come across it. And after all, we communicate, nothing. That's your whole argument, you know. You write your last name, as they say, to the Peace Foundation, and we communicate as it is. Since when are labels (and even with the last name) have you become a necessary condition for scientific contacts-online, in direct communication, in the field, at scientific conferences, etc.??

By the way, who comes across my name, often indicate my last name (and this is also mentioned). So it's them who are grateful to me, not me to myself!

You won't be able to catch it again!

Well I threw that line in as a joke

but the rest of the message might not have been ignored
surnames of some people come across others and this is a huge help in finding and clarifying information on those types, it gives huge advantages..
As for you and me , we are special cases, we cannot be judged by ourselves alone.. it is necessary to judge by the practice of many people and many years of experience, what everyone is trying to say.

[quote=A. J. Elez, 13.02.2009 17: 31]

by the way, the fact that a good find of some scientist was ignored lies not on the fact that his last name is on the label, but on the one who ignored it! This is just their mistake in this case.. and do not blame the names on the labels and those who wrote them!

...

And in general, many good arguments have already been made in favor of the names on the labels of fees. But you seem to ignore it, and sing the old songs again.

I wish I had your strength.

I don't "blame" the name on the label. What's the point of talking about some kind of "guilt"? I just gave an example of the fact that the surname does not guarantee anything in terms of developing trust in label data. This is not the case with Agestis alone, it is a general trend, and we did not fall from the moon. The material is almost always trusted or untrusted without reference to the name of the collector (or even its absence) on the label. Such" guilt " in faunistics is a dime a dozen (and this is natural, because faunistics is not the same as the biography of a particular scientist). I have given examples from the history of entomology, and you have not refuted them.

I did not leave any arguments unanswered (although I am later scolded for this for large texts). I "mastered" all of them and analyzed them in detail, only out of a desire to share my own experience and convince people that outdated difficulties are unnecessary. In response to my objections, I only heard repetitions of the original arguments. What do you read, after all, that reproaches me for ignoring other people's arguments? More serious people justly reproach me (though personally, so as not to infringe on the self-esteem of fellow forum members) just to others: that I, instead of stopping convincing someone who is deaf to arguments, spend my energy answering the same thing several times to those who could not" assimilate " the previous posts, who have a desire to object before reading the object of objections.

I have no complaints, however, and I am grateful to all my colleagues. Regardless of your own position, it is important to know what other opinions there are and whether many people think one way or another. The main result is that when I turn away, each of the opponents, including the most brilliant ones, will think about this question in one way or another in private - not for the sake of getting my grandfather through at the Komsomol meeting, but for the sake of the cause. This is already for the good. And the first reactions to ration offers are often hostile, especially in public. I have one good friend (not an entomologist), so he always reacts negatively to any of my ideas; at the same time, he is a complete like-minded person. So I usually calmly accept his first reaction and repeat my thought a week later. After a week, it turns out that everything there has settled down by itself (but as if without me, but with your own mind), and the person accepts the idea (if, of course, it deserves it). So we need an incubation period, we still need to think calmly for everyone, an instant reaction to new things is rarely justified and scientifically valuable.

I'm an old retrograde myself, very cautious about the new: this can be confirmed by the proponents of using GPS data on the label who argued with me. And, believe me, at one time-thirty years ago or more - I also thought carefully (just about everything that my colleagues have been talking about here in recent days) before going against the established pattern in the question of the name on the label, and not just being lazy or drinking in order to scientifically devalue my own work...

well, yes, as always, it seems to one that they do not hear it, to the other that they do not hear it
But it was nice to reflect and I thought a lot of interesting things for myself and read other people's interesting thoughts )

  
Uv. Elez, please indicate at least the area of Moscow where you collect ausonium. I'm not asking you to name a specific point, because if you would like to, you can name it.
The phrase about a ruderal section that has managed to settle down a little doesn't say anything.
And I am confused by the phrase about the "center of Moscow" - does it mean the center itself or, I hope, the breadth of the center of Moscow?

So after all, the area if I wanted to, I would call it! But why "collect"? Several males were taken in one day, and that was all. Not only did I not catch more fish, but they did not exist-either earlier or later, since then ausonia sharply went to zero in general in the region. But if it weren't for the weather conditions in the following years, there would be a lot of it in the city now, everything went to that. The district of Moscow is Kuntsevsky (in the classical division), and so is the Western AO. There are a lot of very wooded places: huge parks for kilometers, the Setun floodplain also for kilometers, wastelands, meadows. I believe that ausonia can be found in other places (there are biotopically similar places in Moscow).

The center of Moscow is mentioned in relation to north-south, i.e., of course, it should be understood as a given latitude. But only within the framework of the Ministry of Defense, I can't vouch for anything else (perhaps it is found in the Vladimir Opole).

I can tell you the exact date and place only for the sake of a scientific publication (I'm tired of giving away merits out loud). But, if you want, you can cooperate in a personal way for the trip (within the framework of the Ministry of Defense) or at least contact me personally (not on the forum), at least through t. Vasilenko (if you need, of course, not just to know, but to collect material). But there will be no guarantees, of course. Its populations roam (one year there is a lot in one place, in another year - in another, and in the old one there is almost none or not at all). In an average-good year, it is caught well in some places by May 5; I am usually absent at this time, returning to Moscow only after Victory Day, but even then it is not too late to catch it (especially since females do not fly out as early as males). Somewhere in the Moscow region it was possible to catch it just on the city asphalt.

However, if we are violating the topic, I highly recommend not discussing it here anymore, but if necessary, go to the appropriate section.

This post was edited by A. J. Elez - 02/13/2009 18: 45

Sorry I didn't get more detailed coordinates from you. CJSC, so CJSC. I'm from those steppes myself. about 13-15 years ago, alexis, dispar and many others flew almost in my yard. Then the lawns were mowed down.
In Krylatskoye there are quite good glades, and not
only do I not know where something has been preserved along the Setuni floodplain? If only vacant lots in the district of Dorogobuzhskaya Street.
But I don't agree with the words that "give away merits out loud". Why in the middle of nowhere? At least people will say "thank you". Yes, maybe not the most ordinary MOTO, but not an avtokrator, after all. The same Pontia edusa is not common every year.
Only the impression arises: "I, here, caught in Moscow, and where-I will not say, guess for yourself"

  
I have already seen Rutpela maculata signed as Pidonia lurida, and if this information came to me without other data, I would be very interested, but I just want to laugh.. but then it goes to the article, then to another, then to large articles, faunal lists, etc., etc. And if only the data were preserved - such a species in such a place, without accompanying at least the name of the collector,then the error would be passed on.
And there are a lot of such errors! This also applies to definitions and fees.

It seems that this particular piece I "ignored"? I just answered other questions, but if necessary...
What's there to talk about? Lots of errors! So after all, you never know where it is. The passport service insures itself against them by entering not only the surname and initials in the passport, but also the date and place of birth in order not to confuse the two A. P. Sidorovs. A photo is something else. This is to make sure that the passport is yours, and not someone else's. Registration( residence permit), stamp of marriage registration and indication of children is also another matter, this is to specify your rights and obligations. But in general, all this works to clarify the identification of the individual. And then there are fake passports. So the full guarantee is a baby elephant in the color of your dreams, of course. But the passport is wide and thick, and at least you can write a lot of things in it...

Of course, what doesn't happen, sometimes the last name will help, sometimes something else will. And sometimes the last name doesn't help. Especially if it's frequent. "Only an insurance policy can provide a full guarantee" (O. Bender). Therefore, I do not expect a full guarantee from the label, I write there the information on the instance that everyone has always considered directly necessary. And the additional information that can be really useful for verifying the main information (it happens all the time), you still can't fully drive it into the label. Yes, and a living person with a surname sometimes also lies like a fisherman - give examples or do we do without? We've all experienced this in our lives. It is necessary to take the material into scientific circulation in time and clarify doubtful points in hot pursuit, and if it did not work out-doubtful and mark it as doubtful, improbable - as improbable, no matter who caught it and who determined it before you. So they do in the literature; I have already mentioned the case of the "Caucasian" Phoebus (read about it by Nekrutenko), with the" Crimean steppe " apollo (see his own). By the way, for most of our collections, in the end, you need to be interested not in our tastes, but in the tastes of Kozheed Ivanich... Who knows how to draw, colleagues, draw the coat of arms of the forum: a leather eater sits, eats material and says: no, those with surnames will taste better... This coat of arms will adequately crown the controversy.

This post was edited by A. J. Elez - 02/13/2009 19: 54

Sorry I didn't get more detailed coordinates from you. CJSC, so CJSC. I'm from those steppes myself. about 13-15 years ago, alexis, dispar and many others flew almost in my yard. Then the lawns were mowed down.
In Krylatskoye there are quite good glades, and not
only do I not know where something has been preserved along the Setuni floodplain? If only vacant lots in the district of Dorogobuzhskaya Street.
But I don't agree with the words that "give away merits out loud". Why in the middle of nowhere? At least people will say "thank you". Yes, maybe not the most ordinary MOTO, but not an avtokrator, after all. The same Pontia edusa is not common every year.
Only the impression arises: "I, here, caught in Moscow, and where-I will not say, guess for yourself"

Why? For publication, I'll give you information without talking; but this is a matter of scientific priority in population detection. People have repeatedly said thank you to me, and then in the literature appeared as the primary source of information about the population without the slightest hint of my role. And they can spell my last name very well, by the way. And it wasn't the lack of personal labels that hindered them, but something else, which we'll keep quiet about. It would be better to indicate the original source of information, and I would say all these thanks to them, than vice versa.

And on the principle of "guess for yourself" , I myself lived all my life: I found, say, in the early 1990s polyxena in the Lipetsk region (it still lives in that very place) according to such an indication in the literature, which makes it easier to find a needle lost on the road from Moscow to Honduras. This was before the Internet and certainly before our forum. In the literature, specific points could not be found at all, everything was achieved by feet and careful examination of the map. This is not a short-term work, however. So in the print edition, let me mention it-as much as you want. It's not a net, you can't cut it down with an axe. I myself take my friends to my points without any questions all my life, without any problems. I've never turned down good people. But why does the general public need a point where it is no longer necessary to fish, from which only historical and faunal proc? For purely scientific information? Sorry. It belongs on the pages of specialized publications, not on the web or in the newspaper ads. My main specialty is in the humanities; well, life has taught me more than once how stupid it is to present new scientific data that has not yet been published in public. Then it turns out, when you're about to publish them, or at least voice them again, that you stole the clever thoughts from Aunt Dusi, who already published them a week earlier and even kicked you casually, instead of thanking you for what she stole from you. And then we have to keep silent on this topic at all. Believe me, it is difficult for those who have experienced this directly not to take it into account in the future. Alas!

Edusa in the city of Moscow is not stable in terms of numbers, but it is quite common or at least just a few it can be considered almost always; however, it is very local. Moscow-at least climatically-is slightly more stable than the Moscow region; in the Moscow region, edusa's population fluctuation rate is really much higher every year, and you won't find any in the region.

If you personally have a desire to explore my points in CJSC with a net in your hands, you are welcome. Let's do it together and without much clanging. I've never been a redneck.

Digress The last name of the importer often plays a big role in describing new taxa. The article-description puts special emphasis on this. Often, a new species or even genus is called by the name that appears on the label. Even if they don't know this person personally or they suddenly died.

Digress The last name of the importer often plays a big role in describing new taxa. The article-description puts special emphasis on this. Often, a new species or even genus is called by the name that appears on the label. Even if they don't know this person personally or they suddenly died.

This is absolutely true. But if I catch something serious, then as long as I'm alive and keep the material (and I didn't foolishly pass the standard series of things that haven't been described yet to a friend!), let them refer, we will be very happy. And in the next world, I will somehow survive the inattention of the public. Who cares - let them indicate if there is enough space on the label. I explained my thoughts, but I pointed out that everyone is free to take into account the motive you have given at their own discretion. These days, I repeat, it's time to put the material into circulation faster, rather than wait until the trapper dies, and then forty years later remember that they forgot to describe his discovery and perpetuate his name. Although, I repeat, in some cases your motive works, and those who expect only posthumous fame, of course, should put a surname. I agree with all this for what seems to be the hundredth time.

PS And if you collect a collection at the level of classics, then it will be saved directly in your own boxes in one of the best museums in the country or in the world, and everything in your cabinets will be listed as Yours by default. Sort of like books in a library, which just needs to put its stamp on a maximum of two pages, and not on each one. Tsvetaeva's material can be nameless, and still in the Moscow State University Zoo Museum it will not get lost among others. Similarly, for example, the Rubakinsky fund in Leninka is stored in a separate cipher, in one single fund. The fact that N. A. Rubakin's ex-libris is not on every book and is almost never present in periodicals does not threaten anyone, since his entire library is registered on the same tier in a separate fund.

Sorry I didn't get more detailed coordinates from you.

Well, look at post 277, where the information on ausonia is very specific.

Ha-haaaaa!
That's what I thought!
Honestly, I haven't even seen URL-277.
Yes, this is almost the only place with a meadow in the floodplain of the Setun River inside the MKAD

This post was edited by Morozzz - 02/14/2009 00: 10

But if I catch something serious, then as long as I'm alive and keep the material (and I didn't foolishly pass the standard series of things that haven't been described yet to a friend!), let them refer, we will be very happy.

You may not know that you've caught something serious. For example, it can be a small bug from your freezer.

But if I catch something serious, then as long as I'm alive and keep the material (and I didn't foolishly pass the standard series of things that haven't been described yet to a friend!), let them refer, we will be very happy.

You may not know that you've caught something serious. For example, it can be a small bug from your freezer.

Moo can be...

Ha-haaaaa!

Exactly.

That's what I thought!

Oh, right?

Honestly, I haven't even seen URL-277.

I don't doubt it.

Yes, this is almost the only place with a meadow in the floodplain of the Setun River inside the MKAD

As if not so. There are a lot of meadows there, there are also vacant lots, there are also partially forested meadows, there are meadows with the remains of gardens and vegetable gardens, there are forests of various types, and there are many other things. There are even cattails with cattails. There are reeds (although I don't really need them...). There is, by the way, a sedimentation zone-both along the sandy slope and along the settled spots. Apollo on the corresponding page of the forum are placed exactly those that were first fed on clean-up from there, and then on clean-up from the far suburbs. Yes, in the Kuntsevsky district on the Setuni floodplain, by the way, the light did not converge in a wedge either. But in the floodplain as a whole, they were caught or simply noted (from more or less interesting ones for the metropolis): fatheads - flocciferus, pigeons-alexis (and not only there), argiades (and not only there), w-album, betulae, dispar (and not only there), virgaureae (and not only there), alciphron, satyr lycaon (and not only there), whiteflies-edusa (and not only there), ausonia and Leptidea (according to the latest data, it seems not sinapis, but reali), nymphalids-polychloros (and not only there), xanthomelas (and not only there), ilia (and not only there), lathonia, selene, etc. Of course, Catocala (nupta, fraxini, fulminea), hawkmoth ocellatus, populi, stellatarum (II gen.) were recorded or caught in these parts and nearby, I don't really know, but at least eight species of dragonflies.

In any case, I'm glad that we found the point as indicated, without GPS data. And then I can throw: on Ausonia, say (it's not there anyway!):
55°43 '14.81" C; 37°29'29.81" B. This is already accurate to one step of a gopher. By the way, twenty meters to the south begins the habitat of the crake, which screams there every summer. I can also throw GPS coordinates, and there is also a video recording with sound (however, the crake only flashes there, startled, draping, and for a long time you can only hear his song over the meadow).

Good luck!

This post was edited by A. J. Elez - 02/14/2009 05: 22

What's Chase like? what is A. Christie? Replicas of this thread are read with great interest (by me, anyway)… But once the amount of pleasure received turns into the quality of the desire to speak out...
About the label language. Yes, - on any! translatable to human-readable.
BUT ...
In the 164th post (a long time ago, however, it was - almost a month ago; but about the last indisputable judgments – a little later), Cerega, defending the English language, admits incorrectness when it gives the status of "international" - only English. And in post 168-again, but in a different way: "Korean, Chinese, and Japanese, as well as Russian, are not languages of international importance at least now."
Russian (as well as Spanish, Arabic, French, and a number of others) has the same status (at least according to the UN version) - international. If you don't agree, write gen.to the UN Secretary-General. "I'm not going to write labels in all the languages of the world. And here Japanese or Chinese, " says Cerega. What does English have to do with it? Have you been to France long, Cerega? There, learning English.yaz in a secondary school, they do not speak (read, write) it in principle. Ask in the store (option , - from a passerby, etc.) something in English, they will throw up their hands in response: "I don't understand-they say..." Approximately the same situation in the French part of Belgium.
And let's see more broadly. Once upon a time, French was spoken everywhere (with the exception of the "Zakanal islands"), including in Russia. But in Russia, in order to please the ruling "stratum", they said (and wrote in academic journals! publications) also in German (Latin as the language of writing the article, and not the designation of species, it should be noted, was used even at the beginning of the XX century. when writing articles without any persuasion). Is it possible to imagine that in England the Statistical (Entomological, Geological, etc.) Royal Society publishes its "Reports" on it? the language? Rhetoric?- you may ask. Well, exactly. In Russia, the Academy of Sciences published its "Reports" in German. Butlerov (he was a chemist, if Che was a chemist) "took a walk" on this (almost) occasion "in full growth" with an article – "The Russian or only the Imperial Academy of Sciences in St. Petersburg" (1882!).
Pick up the first issues of the Entomological Review. There are three different articles by the same author in three different languages in one issue. God! How opportunistic and modern it is (I mean the notorious"multipolarity"). And you, Cerega, are all English, yes English… In fact, you probably use English as " yaz. mezhdunar. do you mean" American "(feel the difference?)? Spanish, by the way, is spoken by about the same number of people in the world as broken English. Of course, if you want to get an ottudov grant... well, that's a completely different matter.
Although you, Cerega, are not going to learn Chinese (Korean. Japanese), still-hao! and write" be simpler " in Russian, even labels...
In… It turned out almost as long as A. Y. Elez's...

and I'm tired of reading everything in this topic completely and writing something else.. So I'll just flood
bebebe :Р

Niasilil?

It seems to me that the most balanced judgment about the content of the label was expressed
by RippeR (post233) "you can write on the label as much as possible, the main thing is to write the most important thing. You can add a number to each label, and in a separate notebook you can write at least 3 pages of reports for each label."
Indeed, there are a lot of replicas about the "collection point" (it is necessary – not necessary; it is necessary, of course, but with what degree of accuracy? and what is the role of modern technology here? what will happen tomorrow with these technologies? data?). RippeR (if you'll excuse my interpretation) says: "write the most important thing."
And that it is the "most important" should tell the collector his own sense of proportion and "tact" (it seems to me that the tradition of composing the content of labels will not contradict this). Everything else is in the comments (let's say in a notebook). What are the disadvantages of such a label? And methods in general? I don't see…
By the way, does it make sense to note the degree of" excitement " of the Sun? - yes (often, this is no less important than pointing to the C or Y slope of a hill, mountain, hill, or ridge), but the magnetic background? - yes, radiation background? - Yes. And that's all (if possible) - in the notebook as comments (when needed, and who needs it, then the "notebook" - information will be in demand). So, why is everything looped at the "collection point"?

"Pounding water in a mortar" is rarely productive. But it's still interesting to talk.

omar:
the chatter rate in this thread exceeds my reading speed

the speed of chatter in this topic exceeds my reading speed

Don't worry. It is impossible to read everything even for interesting questions. But when at the same time the speed of composing answers to what is not read does not decrease one iota...

So, why is everything looped at the "collection point"?

Here you either have to go over everything from the beginning, or I will briefly say: not because of the point itself, but because of how to indicate it on the label. There seems to have been no substantive disagreement about the point as such. But, of course, in entomology, it is the place and date that are considered the main information about the specimen (despite the fact that it is recognized, especially today, the importance of a lot of other information, and no one here argued with this either). It is the question of the method of indicating the location that has caused some discussion here. Probably all possible points of view were expressed in it, so now you can only repeat yourself, which is hardly necessary.

All the characteristics that you have given, in my opinion, are really important from a scientific point of view. Yes, probably, and not only them. It's just that the participants in the discussion did not cover the issues that they did not raise; but they did not deny their significance at all. By the way, as far as I remember, no one offered to encode information with a number on the label, the meaningful decoding of which is in the notebook. In entomological labeling, encrypted labels are strictly prohibited (see K. K. Fasulati's classic manual on this), and this is not an idle prohibition: the label should be scientifically informative in itself and should not run the risk of being meaningless (and making the copy scientifically insignificant) due to the accidental loss of the cipher pad, which would actually play a role in this there is a notebook of field records with the numbers of finds and information on them. Otherwise, I repeat, I completely agree with you.

This post was edited by A. J. Elez - 02/16/2009 04: 04

 
In any case, I'm glad that we found the point as indicated, without GPS data. And then I can throw: on Ausonia, say (it's not there anyway!):
55°43 '14.81" C; 37°29'29.81" B. This is already accurate to one step of a gopher. By the way, twenty meters to the south begins the habitat of the crake, which screams there every summer. I can also throw GPS coordinates, and there is also a video recording with sound (however, the crake only flashes there, startled, draping, and for a long time you can only hear his song over the meadow).

So, what was the argument about? Now you give the coordinates yourself and confirm that the accuracy is "up to the gopher step". And here is the dot itself. And what else do you need to write in the label, in addition to coordinates and clarifying information about the place?

As the Ripper would say : "screw labels", the main thing is that the site has earned, and we are happy again.

  So, what was the argument about? Now you give the coordinates yourself and confirm that the accuracy is "up to the gopher step". And here is the dot itself. And what else do you need to write in the label, in addition to coordinates and clarifying information about the place?

How about What? And talk?

It was me

How about What? And talk?

Pour it out!

Pour it out!

Yes, already filled

Yes, it's already filled

Then a glass for the health of entomologists, honestly, this moment!

"Bartender! Cognac mug!!!"

Well, well... now kaaak will come Bolivar, as everyone will pour ! It won't seem too small...

I'm back and that's the main thing!!