Entomological labels

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20.02.2009 14:54, А.Й.Элез

I'll be brief.
Labels are made up (exactly made up) by me in Corel Draw -nothing more convenient, IMHO, does not exist. Vector formats allow you to do anything with both text and frames. A once-created vector template can be used in any way, at any time, and in any quantity. Just draw one ticket, and then multiply it as you need it, with a couple of keystrokes. Another indisputable advantage is the lack of static (as in the same word) - the text is not tied to the line, it can be moved as you like within the label itself.

Okay, but if you've also worked with this program. I personally have never used Corel Draw for any business (I just haven't had a chance), I would have to take it up specifically. We all use the word. I wonder if you can "move as you like" there by eye, or if there is an option for vertical and horizontal centering of the text array within the label? In the word, everything is centered, and the lines in the paragraph parameters can be assigned any shifts up and down. And can you throw a sample file here?

This post was edited by A. J. Elez - 02/20/2009 14: 56

20.02.2009 18:32, А.Й.Элез

low salary is not a reason for bribes, but a reason to change jobs

yes, to receiving an inheritance from Onassis

: well, what to be trifled with in an era of great opportunities! Let's hit the grant on poverty, poverty on corruption, or proud demob-on unemployment, teeth-on the shelves... You can't find another job, so at least you can run away from this one, and that's fine. And what is interesting - well, all as one so in Russia and do with the temptation of corruption. And no bribes for you. Continuous dismissals on their own. And grateful, well-fed kids at home. And a good mood will never leave you again.

But who measured this "sufficiency"? If they were punished properly, then even three rubles a month would be enough to avoid taking them: I was always better at logging. And to indulge - and at a million a week they will take it. There are no extra ones. I've heard about road taxes (almost any driver you drive up with sometimes says that he never had a chance to solve a problem - not in an accident, but in his own violation - on the road with a ruble; do they all lie?); but about the fact that the person from the bread place quit because of the dubious smell of local bread, I hear much less often. I respect them myself, but not their time. Now they're more likely to go there in a swarm, like flies on a mountain...

I personally, by the way, first encountered the law in connection with insects (not even on the nature protection line, but on quarantine!) somewhere no later than 1970, when everything was still civilized in these cases, without a madhouse, and extortion was out of the question. I encountered at the border, entering the USSR with fees (on mattresses) from Yugoslavia (fees mainly from the Bosnian Alps). A very kind lady in a uniform looked at my collections and said that she would not be so naughty this time, because she saw that they were all dead and dry and would not be divorced on the territory of the USSR; but in general, she says, keep in mind, boy, that it is not necessary to transport them. even dead things are forbidden - quarantine standards; and who will get caught on the control next time - God knows. She explained briefly the meaning of these norms, and then, imagine, she told me some specific names (Russian); I myself was not very good at nomenclature in my childhood, to put it mildly. I still remember that incident with a kind smile. In recent years, I remember quite different cases for similar situations with transportation (except for those when you didn't notice, of course). I try, of course, to console myself with the fact that somewhere else they were satisfied with the grant, and somewhere else with the honor of the uniform, and they didn't take it away, and they didn't rob it, but it doesn't work very well...

And the last name and so on. write, of course, if you see the need for it and if there is enough space.

This post was edited by A. J. Elez - 02/20/2009 19: 38

21.02.2009 0:21, Bad Den

yes, to receiving an inheritance from Onassis: well, what to be trifled with in an era of great opportunities! Let's hit the grant on poverty, poverty on corruption, or proud demob-on unemployment, teeth-on the shelves... You can't find another job, so at least you can run away from this one, and that's fine. And what is interesting - well, all as one so in Russia and do with the temptation of corruption. And no bribes for you. Continuous dismissals on their own. And grateful, well-fed kids at home. And a good mood will never leave you again. But who measured this "sufficiency"?

We are talking here about a conscious choice - if you want to have as much money as Abramovich, do the same as Roman Arkadyevich. If you want to teach at a university, teach it, it's a conscious choice (it's not a big secret how much a teacher gets). And complaining and justifying bribery with a low salary is nonsense. If you don't like the salary, change your job. If I don't have enough money for gas, I just don't pay for it.
Of course, you can hope to receive an inheritance from Onassis, but you should be aware of one simple thing: Onassis (and not only him) personally does not owe you anything and you personally nah Onassis... not needed (not only for Onassis, though). This leads to such a simple conclusion - you don't need to get money, but EARN IT.

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21.02.2009 0:32, mikee

I have been working at the university for the last ten years, and in a position that, judging by numerous press reports, is most conducive to bribery, and I can confidently refute your assumptions about the growth of corruption. The number of bribe takers, at least in my particular university, is infinitely small compared to honest teachers. Often, problems are created artificially, and they are presented in such a way that you start to believe if you don't know the whole story from the inside. And you probably didn't have any luck with the universities where you worked

Either the university is not very high-tech or everyone is quiet from each other.

Unfortunately, the problem of extortion in universities is quite high, although I admit that not everywhere. Alas, I personally encountered the example of my own children.

21.02.2009 0:56, А.Й.Элез

We are talking here about a conscious choice - if you want to have as much money as Abramovich, do the same as Roman Arkadyevich. If you want to teach at a university, teach it, it's a conscious choice (it's not a big secret how much a teacher gets). And complaining and justifying bribery with a low salary is nonsense. If you don't like the salary, change your job. If I don't have enough money for gas, I just don't pay for it.
Of course, you can hope to receive an inheritance from Onassis, but you should be aware of one simple thing: Onassis (and not only him) personally does not owe you anything and you personally nah Onassis... not needed (not only for Onassis, though). This leads to such a simple conclusion - you don't need to get money, but EARN IT.

It's not for me. What's there to prove? Or did you think I was telling you my credo? No. On this forum, as I see it, when you speak allegorically or joke, you should not forget to hang emoticons by the dozen. You accepted Vaughn and Onassis as my opinion, and not as a parody of the opponent's opinion. I'm not on my own, I'm reacting to someone else's earlier words; you may not have read them yet.

I simply stated that the economic situation cannot but affect people's behavior and that it is completely naive to think that it doesn't matter what it is. Does this deserve to be objected to? Much depends on the individual, but still it does not matter what conditions he is in. In some conditions, some behaviors are easier to follow, while others are harder to follow. If it were otherwise, and the situation in society, no one would ever change. It's hard to swim in hydrochloric acid.

Yes, a lot depends on the individual. One person does not change his job even with a small salary (but at least this is recognized, he is already forced to pay taxes for feeding, which will not improve his professional qualities as much as if he were on a business trip at a scientific conference or just studying in the library at that time), and the other person will experience difficulties even with a large salary. the need for criminal income. But the share of both is not a constant independent of the social situation. In one situation, they steal more, in another less. This will be determined statistically by the following factors: social structure, standard of living, the degree of importance of money for the social status of an individual, the quality of legal control, the range of punitive measures, prevention, etc. There are special works on the social prerequisites of crime, and, as you can see, their authors do not dilute the everyday wisdom that in any situation you can not steal, that it is a matter of conscious choice. This is something that is clear to the baby, but the question is in which conditions this "conscious choice" is more often made in favor of theft, and in which less often. And why.

So no one "justified" anything, "complained" or moralized at all. It was a sociological factorial explanation, completely elementary, all other things being equal. Personally, I am just as disgusted as you are, believe me, by anyone who justifies his usury with a small salary (like the famous Nekrasov character), but I am no less disgusted by anyone who pursues an economic and ideological policy that statistically inevitably pushes people to usury, morally corrupting them. Are you satisfied with this position?

A different interpretation of my position, by God, surprises and upsets me. Especially in the topic about labels.

21.02.2009 1:05, А.Й.Элез

Either the university is not very high-tech or everyone is quiet from each other. Unfortunately, the problem of extortion in universities is quite high, although I admit that not everywhere. Alas, I personally encountered the example of my own children.

I agree with everything except choosing a smiley

face instead

.

I worked many years ago in a small university (exactly, as you put it, a bribe-taker), there was no need to change my job for the time being (I was not going to decompose and worked quietly), but in my memory (and I worked there, due to personal everyday circumstances, for only a year and a half) three people were exposed, plus one friend of the most important whistleblower quit on the day of the prankster's arrest. The prankster received a term (the other two got off: one with dismissal on their own, the other with fright due to the lack of official status and the lack of proof of "intent to commit a terrorist act"). A friend of his who had left like a bullet, who was well-known in the same capacity, but never caught the right one, came back to me not so long ago, when I saw a book in the book trade that was published for the anniversary of a major scientist and teacher and consisted of articles about his merits in science and teaching.

This is se la vie, as they say. The same applies to any service that has important administrative rights for people and the technical ability to conduct face-to-face blackmail. Yes, there are honest people everywhere, but these days they are just more likely than the scoundrels to face the problem of getting fired in a good way.

In our field work, we are directly affected by seven services or departments (at least I have not encountered many of them). By the way, for me personally, there are no special environmental services among them, I haven't had any experience with them yet, and I don't even really know what they are in institutional terms.

Oh, by the way: long live the labels!

This post was edited by A. J. Elez - 02/21/2009 01: 47

21.02.2009 1:51, А.Й.Элез

Ah, are you still writing? Well then I'm coming to you
A. Y.Elez writes: "I've heard about extortion on the roads (almost any driver with whom you drive up along the way sometimes says that he has never had a chance to solve a problem - not in an accident, but in his own violation - on the road with a ruble;"

You won't believe it, it happens that they silently issue a fine. This is just a remark from the audience, not an invitation to continue the discussion.

Yes, but that's why I said "almost anyone".

However, the fine is also taken in rubles, but, of course, I was not talking about fines, you understood correctly. (This is just a remark to the audience, not a continuation of the discussion).

If you have time, please explain to me the GPS incident I mentioned earlier. Can instrument data really be distorted by interference, etc. The question is not idle for me, since progress is moving somewhere, and I have already been on the route with GPS in my hands (although not in my hands, but still the device was used).

This post was edited by A. J. Elez - 02/21/2009 02: 45

21.02.2009 3:08, mikee

Back to T. < b>Mikee</b>. Yes, you are a poisonous person, but you know the specifics and they also corrected me on the case. That is why I will tell you (and if you can think for yourself and explain to me if you can) a case that happened last summer in one of the former socialist countries of Europe. One of my friends (she has nothing to do with entomology at all and had no idea what the tables were dancing on the forum for several days) told me a story the day before yesterday, which I immediately decided to save for you personally. She went to this country, and there her local colleagues from some university took her for a walk in nature. A small group of friends was led by a certain owner and admirer of a device that you understood, on which he marked the points of passage, then simply found out where the group was located, i.e. which village was on the right, which on the left, etc. As a result, when everyone got lost completely and got out completely tired in the wrong place, he began to explain this by saying that the Americans were currently conducting exercises here, and that's why all the readings of the device were marked with the letter "Grisha"...

For what I bought - for what I sell. I don't have any other details. In your opinion, really extraneous factors (and now there are a lot of such factors in any forest, and there are a lot of people flying in the near sky and in space, everyone seems to live on a TV tower) could easily interfere with the establishment of coordinates? Or did the guy just move the arrows, and it was not that, but those satellites that must necessarily be visible 3 and which might not be available then? And if the latter is the case, then do we have the opportunity to know already when determining the coordinates whether the device currently has enough satellites overhead and whether unwanted interference affects its tsifir? In a word-to know whether we will get the truth from the device at this moment or God knows what? And, if the latter, how to eliminate the influence of these interferences? After all, for example, radio interference, as far as I remember from the magazine "Radio" 40 years ago (from the material about hooligans on the air), can calmly bring planes to an accident, disrupting their communication. Your opinion? Unfortunately, I don't have any other details about the incident. But maybe there will still be some versions? By the way, so do other colleagues.

I apologize in advance and hope to be forgiven for:
- long post (difficult topic);
- digression from the topic of this topic.
But this is not the first time the question has been raised and is accompanied by numerous links to stories and publications in the press about real cases. Therefore, it requires clarification. So, briefly, about 40 minutes

General provisions:
1. all satellite navigation systems for global coverage and round-the-clock navigation must have at least 24 satellites with highly elongated elliptical orbits and with a large eccentricity (The Earth is not at all in the center of the ellipse, so the time of visibility of the satellite from a specific point is most of the time of one satellite revolution).
2. Ground stations for receiving and controlling groupings are attached to satellites. The coordinates of the stations are known with VERY high accuracy.
3. oddly enough, but all this economy is mainly tied not to the earth's "ball", but to astronomical objects of the starry sky and the true vertical (direction to the center of the Earth). How this is done is not important here.
4. all this economy is connected to each other by radio channels (digital) and is synchronized with VERY high accuracy in time. Precision atomic clocks are available both at ground stations and on every satellite.
5. all this together is the basis for a mathematical model that allows you to build with high accuracy the same imaginary coordinate grid of meridians and parallels, rigidly tied to Greenwich Mean Time (in fact, no matter what, everything is recalculated).
6. the satellite signal contains information about its position and orbit parameters, as well as a countdown.
7. The receiver that we use for navigation receives signals from satellites and calculates the true coordinates of the point where the receiver is located based on their coordinates and the time difference (the time of transmission of the signal from each satellite depends on its distance to our point). True in the sense of an ideal coordinate grid. The more satellites you can see, the more accurate the result is. A minimum of 3 satellites are needed for acceptable accuracy. To get the height - 4. To determine North-South-East-West , we need our receiver to move. In other words, all this is just math

Practical notes:
1. American GPS-multichannel. The most accurate channels are military, which is why it was created. The accuracy of determining the true coordinates is less than a meter. A public civilian channel gives an accuracy of 5-15 meters (specially roughened relative to the military). The military channel is received by receivers other than those that are publicly available.
2. sources of errors in the system:
- inaccuracy in knowing the parameters of orbits, out-of-sync of different clock instances, inaccuracy in the orientation of satellites, etc.
- fluctuations in the movement of satellites. They, by the way, dangle in orbit along all three axes and rotate under the influence of various natural forces.
- inaccuracy of calculations in the receiver.
In practice, if the receiver is stationary, then its position will not be a point on the screen, but will be a certain broken line with a deviation of up to those very 5-15 meters, since the calculation result changes with each count.
Practical problems of the first kind (related to the system itself):
1. If necessary, the US can disable the civilian GPS channel. There are two such cases known in the literature: the war in Yugoslavia and Iraq. In both cases, the shutdown was local, only for this area. You should not expect this at any time, because the commercial value of navigation is too high.
2. low number of visible satellites. It is related to the local conditions: mountains, tall buildings. The solution is to look for a place nearby where the satellites will be better visible. There's nothing you can do about it.
3. weak and / or distorted signal from satellites. It is associated with cloud cover (especially during thunderstorms - the air is ionized), vegetation cover (trees overhead), reflection of signals from houses or rocks. Solution-the latest generation of receivers can work stably even in these conditions (SIRF III chip)
4. signal jamming or strong interference. The solution is to stay away from sources of interference. According to literature sources, GPS is successfully jammed by an open microwave oven

. It is important to understand that interference can distort the signal so that it is not recognized by the receiver, but it cannot make an error in determining the coordinates, since the signal is digital and encoded!
Interim summary:
- you can forget about all these problems in practice. If only there were enough satellites in the field of view and remember about 5-15 meters. The receiver and the GPS system itself are constantly being improved;
- all of the above does not depend on maps in any way! In difficult and unfamiliar terrain, you can successfully follow your own trail using the built-in trace back function in the receiver. And you will know the cardinal directions reliably, and the distance traveled, and the speed of movement. Only on the terrain will not be guided

About maps and orientation:
Why do orientation errors occur when using GPS? The problem is with the maps used. Here are the reasons:
1. All maps uploaded to the GPS receiver are a flat projection of the non-planar surface of the Earth. This distorts the picture relative to the true coordinates.
2. The Earth is not a sphere, but a so-called geoid. There are many systems for describing this complex geometric body. Accordingly, the geoid bindings to the true coordinates also differ. And maps are compiled in a specific system (in Russia, the Pulkovo-1942(1) and Pulkovo-1942(2) systems are used). Add item 1 here, and if you incorrectly set the geoid system for a specific map in your receiver, then the error on the ground can be measured in hundreds (!) meters. In any case, it's easy to pass by the spring or just get lost. Simply put, when uploading a map to the receiver, the receiver still needs to be configured correctly for this map! The receiver converts the geoid description systems to true coordinates by itself using the formulas.
3. Prepare a map for the GPS receiver. It's not easy to store the scanned image in memory, but also to link it. For binding, either the coordinates of some points that are marked in advance (on the general staff map, these are the center and corners of the map), or the coordinates of points taken by the receiver itself on the ground are used. In the first case, it is important to enter all the binding parameters correctly. In the second case, it is also important to correctly select the same points on the terrain and map. If you confuse two mountains , you will miss by many meters. Purchased electronic cards are also prepared by people who can make mistakes. Here is an article on the eu topic:
http://rnd.cnews.ru/tech/reviews/index_sci...08/03/11/291557
4. maps quickly lose their relevance as a result of natural phenomena and human activity. That's why you can't navigate more or less reliably by using all objects on the map. All the time I drive by car along" non-existent " (on the map) roads

And GPS has nothing to do with it, no one has canceled my head to assess reality. In practice, you must first check whether the terrain matches the point on the screen, and then move.

Okay, that's probably it. I hope this is enough. And don't shoot the piano player, he can play ka

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21.02.2009 13:52, А.Й.Элез

See T. Mikee! Thank you for your detailed answer. A lot of things have already dawned on me, and I'm still thinking about something else. It's a good thing they didn't cut it, otherwise they would have had to ask again a hundred times for each item.

Here are some very specific practical questions (I will number them to make it easier to answer). Don't shoot the reader, he reads as well as he can.

1. If "interference can distort the signal so that it is not recognized by the receiver, but can not make an error in determining the coordinates, because the signal is digital and encoded", then, therefore, the guy about whom I gave the example, the coordinates could not be erroneous (and they are some on the device was definitely there, the subsequent fiasco was a surprise for him), it was just bad with the card binding? Did I understand correctly?

2. The map reflects real objects with varying degrees of detail (and accuracy in their relative positions, orientation, etc.). But since faunalism (and sometimes fees, because you can't go further from Greenwich on foot with the device in your hands, following the numbers) will require that if only GPS coordinates are given, they should be translated into the names of map features, what exactly do we need to guarantee the identity of the point? I realized that (you already wrote earlier) there should be the same, and unchanged, system. Is that enough, or is something else necessary? For now, I will ignore the tragic question about the current small detail, say, Google Earth, focused primarily on human settlements, and then not very meticulously. Do I need to specify for the party receiving your data which map (so that the corners of the sheets match, etc.) should be used? After all, sometimes I have coordinates because I had a device with me and detected the point, and sometimes I just found it (as on Setuni) this point, knowing the place with my eyes and toponymy, immediately went to Google Earth and found out the coordinates there.

3. It is related to point 2. I understand the same place, at least in relation to faunistics, not as the same longitude and latitude (this is secondary and good if it works correctly), but primarily as the same map feature. The rest is subordinate, not an end in itself. It is important that the butterfly was caught not at such a degree, but on such a mountain, and the degree is good because it helps to find this mountain quickly and accurately. Not an abstract place, but a concrete place with concrete material content, so to speak. But in practice, there are a whole bunch of subtle (in the literal sense of the word) cases. Often (especially somewhere in the south of Tajikistan, where new roads were laid at all, sometimes, as I was told, initially from space, since no surveyor with a theodolite can pass through those mountains), there are no places where it would be physically possible to catch insects except for a thread of road or river. The road is located between steep cliffs that can only be reached by jumping off a satellite. In fact , it is the same here when you take copies along the road or railway track, where a maximum of ten steps to the left or right is a forest or peat bog, where it is simply ridiculous to indicate the edusa whitewash. And on a piece of iron-as much as you want. In this case, wouldn't it be necessary to add one way or another what was caught, for example, on the Moscow - Kazan railway track at such and such a kilometer, because the error along the length of the road, even in a kilometer, is not as biotopically cardinal as the error sideways by several meters?

The same applies to the place of convergence of various biotopes, and in this situation it is not enough to indicate the conditions of capture on an additional label, this is possible, but it is also important to somehow make it clear on the main label that these conditions (say, a settled meadow) were located at the time of collection at such a cartographic object. and not at the other (which are sometimes located rarely on the ground, and sometimes much more closely than on Google Earth, but on domestic printed maps are present: for example, small rivers, ponds, septic tanks, MTFs, etc., and on the military - even very often specified trigonometric points). I will not multiply examples, but believe me, there are a lot of them in my life. And, so that in the future, due to a penny discrepancy in the coordinate reference of the original and/or subsequent maps, the same edusa is not registered in a dead ram or swampy alder, will it not be necessary to mark the point on the label in one way or another in the usual way? But if so, then?..

Sorry for the long questions, but if it's unclear, it's better to clarify. If possible, please let us know your opinion.

This post was edited by A. J. Elez - 03/28/2009 20: 09

21.02.2009 22:51, mikee

See T. Mikee! Thank you for your detailed answer. A lot of things have already dawned on me, and I'm still thinking about something else. It's a good thing they didn't cut it, otherwise they would have had to ask again a hundred times for each item.

Here are some very specific practical questions (I will number them to make it easier to answer). Don't shoot the reader, he reads as well as he can.

1. If "interference can distort the signal so that it is not recognized by the receiver, but can not make an error in determining the coordinates, because the signal is digital and encoded", then, therefore, the guy about whom I gave the example, the coordinates could not be erroneous (and they are some on the device was definitely there, the subsequent fiasco was a surprise for him), it was just bad with the card binding? Did I understand correctly?

I'll try it point by point. Coordinates that Yandex. Navigator shows (just numeric values!) - they are absolute, they do not depend on any map. Nonabsolute point on the map that is currently on the screen. It all depends on the map. Naturally, I won't even assume from the verbal description what happened there - either the map binding was incorrect, or the conversion system was set incorrectly. Let me explain about signals: if the signal is weak or distorted, it is simply ignored by the GPS receiver. I.e., a specific satellite is not taken into account.

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22.02.2009 1:42, mikee

2. The map reflects real objects with varying degrees of detail (and accuracy in their relative positions, orientation, etc.). But since faunalism (and sometimes fees, because you can't go further from Greenwich on foot with the device in your hands, following the numbers) will require that if only GPS coordinates are given, they should be translated into the names of map features, what exactly do we need to guarantee the identity of the point? I realized that (you already wrote earlier) there should be the same, and unchanged, system. Is that enough, or is something else necessary? For now, I will ignore the tragic question about the current small detail, say, Google Earth, focused primarily on human settlements, and then not very meticulously. Do I need to specify for the party receiving your data which map (so that the corners of the sheets match, etc.) should be used? After all, sometimes I have coordinates because I had a device with me and detected the point, and sometimes I just found it (as on Setuni) this point, knowing the place with my eyes and toponymy, immediately went to Google Earth and found out the coordinates there.

There are a lot of questions at this point, and I'll try to answer them, even if not in order:
1. High-resolution images are available for the entire surface of the Earth. Google Earth gives different details in different parts of the World, depending on the frequency of user requests. Therefore, the surrounding areas of cities and resorts are displayed with maximum accuracy (up to meters). Just full coverage of the entire surface with maximum resolution - a wild amount of information. But gradually, Google solves this problem. Thank them so much for this!
2. Now with coordinates. The question is very interesting in practical terms. You need to understand that the coordinates given by the GPS receiver are perfect (within the accuracy of the system itself). And then it all depends on the map we use, which we put these coordinates on to link to a specific area. Let's look at the example. We have already seen the point of capturing Ausonia in Google Earth (see my post above). We now take the most accurate map available - General Staff square 050k--n37-003-4--(1985), downloaded from http://maps.poehali.org/formatted/050k--n3...ype=050k&zoom=4. There is also a ready-made file for binding to the coordinate grid (for use in Yandex. Navigator). The resolution of this map is 500m/1cm, which is 50 times worse than Google for the same area. We are looking for the specified point (55°43 '14.81" S; There are a lot of questions at this point, I will try to answer, even if not in order:
1. Google Earth gives different details in different parts of the World, depending on the frequency of user requests. Therefore, the surrounding areas of cities and resorts are displayed with maximum accuracy (up to meters). Just full coverage of the entire surface with maximum resolution - a wild amount of information. But gradually, Google solves this problem. Thank them so much for this!
2. Now with coordinates. The question is very interesting in practical terms. You need to understand that the coordinates given by the GPS receiver are perfect (within the accuracy of the system itself). And then it all depends on the map we use, which we put these coordinates on to link to a specific area. Let's look at the example. We have already seen the point of capturing Ausonia in Google Earth (see my post above). We now take the most accurate map available - General Staff square 050k--n37-003-4--(1985), downloaded from http://maps.poehali.org/formatted/050k--n3...ype=050k&zoom=4. There is also a ready-made file for binding to the coordinate grid (for use in Yandex. Navigator). The resolution of this map is 500m/1cm, which is 50 times worse than Google for the same area. We are looking for the specified point (55°43 '14.81"S; navigator, and the map serves only as an additional tool for rough orientation.
- if you link the map to the terrain yourself using the GPS navigator, and do not take a ready-made reference to points on the map, then all intentional shift distortions will be eliminated and the difference between Google Earth and the map used is minimized.
- any map used in yandex. Navigator should be checked for a specific area before using it.

PS. Sometimes files are not downloaded from the specified links the first time. In this case, you just need to wait 20 seconds and re-enter the code. It's just a fee for a "free" service

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24.02.2009 20:41, bahurin

stop arguing about gps. GPS itself on the territory of Russia gives an accuracy of 10-50 meters. On the European territory of 10-20 meters in Siberia 30-50 meters (Americans twist in Siberia, in Europe can not). all the glitches with your navigators are caused by problems with maps that are strongly linked to reality based on approximately the same satellite images. There is also an error in the city due to houses. There can be no error in the field.If you write down the exact coordinates, not the point on Google Earth, but the latitude-longitude coordinates, then you can always return to the same place with an accuracy of 20 meters, regardless of what is drawn on the map.

For all those who doubt, I will also say that the latitude-longitude coordinates are the SAME for ALL navigation systems: GPS, GLONASS, GALLILEO, etc. The same coordinates on maps and globes. It's like a calendar they all use one, otherwise ships would wander in the oceans, planes would land there if the coordinate systems were different. I think that this coordinate system will continue for another 100-200 years.

Somewhere I met suggestions to write in words something like 5 steps from a large oak tree in the direction of such and such... I think that writing "xxx.xx'xx" is easier than such tricky quests ))).

This post was edited by bahurin - 02/24/2009 20: 54

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24.02.2009 23:36, А.Й.Элез

stop arguing about gps. GPS itself on the territory of Russia gives an accuracy of 10-50 meters. On the European territory of 10-20 meters in Siberia 30-50 meters (Americans twist in Siberia, in Europe can not). all the glitches with your navigators are caused by problems with maps that are strongly linked to reality based on approximately the same satellite images. There is also an error in the city due to houses. There can be no error in the field.If you write down the exact coordinates, not the point on Google Earth, but the latitude-longitude coordinates, then you can always return to the same place with an accuracy of 20 meters, regardless of what is drawn on the map.

For all those who doubt, I will also say that the latitude-longitude coordinates are the SAME for ALL navigation systems: GPS, GLONASS, GALLILEO, etc. The same coordinates on maps and globes. It's like a calendar they all use one, otherwise ships would wander in the oceans, planes would land there if the coordinate systems were different. I think that this coordinate system will continue for another 100-200 years.

Somewhere I met suggestions to write in words something like 5 steps from a large oak tree in the direction of such and such... I think that writing "xxx.xx'xx" is easier than such tricky quests ))).

The main advantages of GPS have already been professionally evaluated here, which were not questioned by the panelists; these assessments are generally consistent with your point of view. In my opinion, there were no" doubters " about the unity of the coordinate system (latitude - longitude) among us either.

But it is hardly enough to respond to the messages immediately preceding yours with the "big oak" example. Regardless of the position regarding the indication of GPS coordinates on the label, no one here suggested using oak trees instead of relatively stable cartographic objects, which are recorded even during their lifetime only on extremely approximate satellite images on the same Google Earth. (On the contrary, we talked about the need to rely on reliable map features, cardinal directions, angles, and distances.) If you have come across such an idea somewhere outside of our forum, I think that everyone here will share your just indignation.

The point about the simplicity of specifying digital coordinates on the label (in comparison with specifying extremely accurate reference to cartographic objects) was also made here, but the point about the simplicity of directly obtaining cartographic information from the label (in comparison with the need to translate digital "quests" into cartographic information) was also made. In short, the colleagues discussed making life easier not only for the writer, but also for the reader (and those who use the label in their faunal work).

But the combination of altitude indications for a given point with latitude-longitude ones for a completely different one, the instantaneous "jump" over a long distance, as well as the need to first overcome, perhaps, tens of kilometers of taiga to receive a signal (but in a completely different place), can hardly be written off on the map. Judging by the discussion, there are experts in these cases among the participants; they may be able to clarify the problem. It actually concerns the question of navigation as such, although indirectly-and the question of labels.

This post was edited by A. J. Elez - 02/25/2009 09: 11

26.02.2009 20:59, bahurin

No need to go far for specialists. I am an engineer, I work in a company that develops special-purpose devices, including those using navigation. So here it is:
1. Jumping over a long distance when moving can occur. Older receiver models often had this sin. The fact is that there are no direct methods for solving the navigation problem (calculating coordinates) no, and everyone uses approximate methods that don't always converge to the desired point. The height has nothing to do with it. Navigation receivers measure altitude as accurately as coordinates. Recently, methods have been developed to eliminate this disease, but they are not always used in simple models.
2. In the forest (in the taiga) navigation receivers work. Trees do not make significant attenuations to the signal (but they do make very little interference in the city by an order of magnitude more). The receiver may not work in ravines or gorges, in short, because of the landscape, this is true. Possible signal loss in the forest during rain when the trees get wet.

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