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Spreading insects

Community and Forum → Entomological collections → Spreading insects

Helene, 14.04.2006 15:31

Mdyayaya... Thinking about the "depository" - about a thousand butterflies on mattresses and in bags (I didn't have time to process all the material twice before the start of the next season, so I accumulated it), I remember with nostalgia the times when spreading butterflies was fun rolleyes.gifjust three or four years ago... You spread your own - you remember the circumstances under which they were collected, not your own-you are curious to open your wings: what is it inside?.. Rrrromantics. tongue.gif
And as time pressure has come - I understand why laboratory assistants are paid for this. And I don't understand why they pay so little... weep.gif lol.gif

Comments

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14.04.2006 16:21, Nilson

But for me, spreading butterflies is always hard work (mostly small ones). It's so cool to do beetles after them: I stuck a dozen needles in a piece of styrofoam, and not to you trembling fingers, pierced naughty wings!
Likes: 1

14.04.2006 16:24, RippeR

Yes, yes.. When once a week I went on a hike, there is a lot of time to spread out the pleasure.. And when every day, even cool views are somehow lazy. smile.gif
Likes: 1

14.04.2006 16:29, Helene

And when every day, even cool views are somehow lazy. smile.gif

Not even laziness, but hard work. Routine. Yes ischo and responsible: you can screw up the same eek.gifCool view to screw up-it's like?!

14.04.2006 17:18, Nilson

I've had the Caucasian fees for three years now (some very bright interesting Polyommatus), so I still haven't got my hands on it - I'm afraid to spoil smile.gifit

14.04.2006 17:27, Helene

I've had the Caucasian fees for three years now (some very bright interesting Polyommatus), so I still haven't got my hands on it - I'm afraid to spoil it smile.gif

I understand...
And my main headache is micro. Working with them is time-consuming, mess up as a non-fig to do. And the responsibility is maximum, because this is for a large scientific work of my institute.

14.04.2006 22:20, RippeR

Here in winter, something to straighten your hands itch, you want to go to nature, and there is only snow around. In the summer, if something is new and good, then sometimes this view goes to the rasp first, and the banals sometimes even remain lying and dry up.. Good views this year were brought down, but I didn't spread any of them, because I wanted to get everything from a friend for a month, but I still haven't received it.

15.04.2006 16:01, Dracus

Yes, after the blacksmiths and beetles, I didn't really want to spread butterflies even after the New Year... As a result, the majority remained in bags. But it will still be necessary to straighten it out sometime... I'll have to save my nerves until then smile.gif

15.04.2006 18:13, Pavel Morozov

And for me - a great lesson. My nerves are just calming down. However, after such 40-50 pyadennits-eyes a little in a heap. cool.gif

15.04.2006 18:25, Bad Den

It is necessary to change the object of spreading - so that there is rest.
As my grandfather used to say: "Tired of chopping wood? Go, have a rest - shoot the poles "

15.04.2006 21:49, RippeR

That's for sure.. It is necessary to straighten 3-5 pieces a day, then there will be no fatigue, and if you also straighten the casher types, you will think every day: Well, why only 5! smile.gif

17.04.2006 6:41, Tyomochkin

smile.gif smile.gif But still, if you make a collection for yourself, then you can suffer. And you can also take a break from this" fine art " in winter! smile.gif smile.gif

17.04.2006 9:56, PVOzerski

Oh, everyone forgets about the massacre of the "blacksmiths". And then you have to define frown.gifit . In locusts of the genus Stenobothrus, the classification by subgenus is based on the venation of the hind wing in the defining tables - but no normal person would think that such nondescript wings should be spread out before putting the animal in a box. And quickly soak the opportunity is not always there.

17.04.2006 12:02, Helene

And for me - a great lesson. My nerves are just calming down. However, after such 40-50 pyadennits-eyes a little in a heap. cool.gif

I can share the joy tongue.gifof the Pyadenitsa torment will not, and daytime-easily! lol.gif

17.04.2006 12:03, Helene

Oh, everyone forgets about the massacre of the "blacksmiths". And then you have to define frown.gifit . In locusts of the genus Stenobothrus, the classification by subgenus is based on the venation of the hind wing in the defining tables - but no normal person would think that such nondescript wings should be spread out before putting the animal in a box. And quickly soak the opportunity is not always there.

Or maybe post rules here? How to straighten someone, how to dissect in general (some people are generally treated with alcohol)?
Just here the topic about techniques is open.

17.04.2006 14:54, RippeR

Come on, blacksmiths are pretty easy to soak, especially in winter. Threw the blacksmith in a box of water and on the battery, in a few hours you can straighten..
And they themselves do not seem to be hard to straighten out, they are good to dry and convenient in butterfly straighteners..

17.04.2006 15:08, Helene

Come on, blacksmiths are pretty easy to soak, especially in winter. Threw the blacksmith in a box of water and on the battery, in a few hours you can straighten..
And they themselves do not seem to be hard to straighten out, they are good to dry and convenient in butterfly straighteners..

They darken frown.gif frown.gif frown.gif

17.04.2006 16:20, RippeR

Well, a flag in their claws! Still, this is not the case with everyone, many remain normal.. and the darkened ones are not much disfigured by this.

17.04.2006 16:56, Helene

Well, a flag in their claws! Still, this is not the case with everyone, many remain normal.. and the darkened ones are not much disfigured by this.

Some-very much. For example, green wingless plants (isophia, pecilimons, barbitistes)... Beyond recognition. frown.gif

18.04.2006 11:56, Dmitry Vlasov

And no one tried to freeze the material in the summer, and then spread it out...
At least one operation (soaking) is not needed.
I do this with beetles, no problems if you do not push the material.

18.04.2006 12:31, Nilson

My main problem is not in spreading a large number of specimens that need to be preserved after capture, whether you want or not, but in spreading butterflies brought from hikes and expeditions. It is not possible to straighten it immediately, but it is absolutely impossible to freeze it there. The method is generally good. People even buy extra refrigerators smile.giffor themselves

18.04.2006 13:15, Helene

I finally don't understand why to freeze them. Still thawed not quite as fresh (tested on the experience of a friend who freezes).
Soaking by itself is not such a time-consuming process. But there is no risk of "podtushivaniya", dry material can be stored for years without any problems, while it is easy to open the mattress at any time (you never know why-show someone, pull something out and give it...).
I put it on mattresses and spread it out in the winter.
And many people do not mount beetles at all (except for their own collection), so they are stored on cotton wool. They also have signs that are usually visible.

18.04.2006 15:13, RippeR

It is better not to store butterflies on mattresses, but in bags - there is less threat of skin eaters.
And rearranging beetles is a trivial matter.. Of course, to achieve perfect straightening, you will have to suffer a little, it is important to soak it well (in warm water! and it is better to put it on something that will maintain the temperature.)
I don't like the idea of freezing at all. And another thing: if the trip is not very long(within 5-10 days), you can carefully press on the abdomen of butterflies, so that they do not completely die, and then they will get home fresh, I checked it myself, and received fresh specimens 7 days after capture..

19.04.2006 11:06, Dmitry Vlasov

To RippeR
It seems that you have never re-spread beetles in large quantities. I would like to look at the "trifling" spreading of dry specimens of abscesses . myagkotelok and other evil spirits with rather soft and warped integuments.
On cotton wool, beetles often die from leatherworms. Even I, who have a good knowledge of the biology of leatherworms and control measures, regularly suffer from them... And in the freezer they lie to themselves and lie, they do not ask to eat.
On fairly long excursions, I still use this method of preservation. I throw dead beetles, bedbugs, even flies and eels in 70-80% alcohol to preserve them in the future. Upon returning from it, I take it out, dry it on a filter and freeze it. And after a couple of days, I defrost and start to spread out the most necessary copies... What is surprising, if you straighten out immediately from alcohol, insects "harden", it is difficult to straighten out and can be damaged. And after such a freeze, "rigor mortis" disappears and the beetles are flexible, as soon as they are out of the stain. but for butterflies, this is the way. of course, not applicable.

19.04.2006 13:12, Nilson

To Ripper
Many here, of course, sin by killing insects (forced, I believe), but still, it is worth killing quickly and, how to say, "painlessly". Of course, a damaged copy is worse than a collector's copy and a straightened one, but it is not very ethical to keep an insect half-dead for a week. Just my opinion.
Likes: 2

19.04.2006 15:11, RippeR

Elizar:
I spread the insects immediately, even if in large quantities, sparing no effort. If there is nothing new or interesting in the material, then I just leave them to sleep on mattresses.. Who likes to freeze, let him do it, for me this method is not preferable.. On long trips, you can kill beetles in the stain with ethyl acetate, so that they take a few hours to wash, then in a closed box, so as not to be very spacious. Beetles so do not dry out from 15 days and above, on arrival you can safely spread. Throwing beetles in alcohol is bad, because they lose color partially or completely, and it doesn't matter at all (especially if the insects are shaggy). In short, I shared my methods and opinions (as it seems to me), and decide for yourself who is suitable.
Nilson:
Psolednim case I will look at ethics, morals and so on. What is appropriate for a smart decision, I will choose, and not what will be suitable for society. Society is also very divided, here many factors play a role-squeamishness, weak nerves, etc., so if everyone pays attention and looks at their morals, then you should go not to entomologists, but to preachers, pastors, priests, etc.areas. I am interested in your opinion: which act is more immoral, which is against morality, or which is against reason and truth!?

19.04.2006 15:32, Nilson

to Ripper
would love to talk about this topic, but again zafolyat smile.gif

to In general
And why, in fact, there are problems with spreading beetles? The only thing I have encountered when working with large species is the beginning of decomposition even before they are really wet. Small dry types and glue on triangles, without straightening.

19.04.2006 16:04, Dmitry Vlasov

To Nilson
, there are usually no problems with spreading beetles, just the " butterfly people "opposed themselves to the"bug people". They say we have "plowing", and you have so, entertainment...
Well, people began to look for difficulties to complain, and at the same time exchange techniques.
But in general
, I do not impose my own method of composing material, I just came to a conclusion over the years.that it's more convenient for me.
And at the expense of losing color in alcohol, but if you throw it alive... Those who change color, such as ladybirds, should be killed in a different way.
PLEASE DO NOT READ ANY ANIMAL RIGHTS ACTIVISTS!!!
It is necessary to kill with dry heat. In a bubble in the ashes of a fire, boiling water or just a flame. Just need a skill, because beetles can "boil" and swell beyond recognition.

19.04.2006 16:29, Nilson

Americans generally almost always recommend killing beetles in rubbing alcohol. The color of cows almost does not change even with a fairly long storage in alcohol, if they are allowed to dry a little with their hips raised before spreading.

From personal experience - butterflies are always better straightened out if they are frozen in ethyl acetate, and not by squeezing. Therefore, my heterocera, which still have to be thrown into the stain due to shagginess, often deal better than the day ones killed in the net.

19.04.2006 23:12, RippeR

I collect both some and others and others, so I will say that it is really more time-consuming and requires more accuracy, dexterity, etc. process-it is the spreading of butterflies. Beetles are easier to spread, and if they are frozen in ethyl acetate, then it's generally easy, although you have to spend time on long-whiskered ones and some others.
Why bother with alcohol, when there is such a good gift of fate, and it seems even cheaper as ethyl acetate!? Moreover, ethyl acetate is also beneficial for subsequent re-straightening (it softens faster, it is easier to straighten)
Injecting ethyl acetate to butterflies is not bad, but it is inconvenient for daytime flights, for night flights there is almost no other choice, and if you spread it on foam, it is disastrous for the straightener.. So it's not always convenient

20.04.2006 7:43, Dmitry Vlasov

To RippeR
Alcohol is simply easier to get, especially since in Russia alcohol-containing liquids (80%) are sold in many places. And in alcohol (but already 96%) it is NECESSARY to starve beetles if they are supposed to be tested for DNA.

20.04.2006 13:52, Helene

2 RippeR: This is the first time I've heard that insects are injected with ethyl acetate. At the Institute, we inject ammonia - including daytime butterflies. If the needle is thin and the hands are not crooked-no problem. The softness of dry material, by the way, also contributes.

About kozheedov, mattresses and bags.

With unmounted material, the leather-eating issue is very easily solved by sealing. I still understand when it comes to collectible boxes - you have to specifically buy garbage bags, and you have to tie and untie the ukanets. But I make mattresses the size of a small mailbox (about 20x30) - a convenient container for transportation (in the field), and for storage (fits in a standard package from the supermarket-only a new one is needed, obviously without holes). And lie to yourself.
And to hope for bags as protection is a vain thing, if they want to, they will get through (except to seal it tightly).

About beetles.

In principle, on the mattress they are therefore stored without straightening: for the sake of compactness with ease of access. And not just beetles. Here are butterflies - an inconvenient group, you have to spread them all (except for those that are for recoil).

About bioethics.

I will probably open such a topic in the general forum "Entomology". Actually, I've been going smile.giffor a long time

20.04.2006 18:34, RippeR

Helene:
maybe not many people do this, the main thing here is an experiment! In these ways, new things are learned. And as for the softness of the material, I can bet that any alcohol makes ethyl acetate in this case smile.gif

If you do everything the same as with mattresses, only put them in bags, it will turn out much better (if of course kozheedy still get there..). Tested by about 40 years of experience of my friend smile.gif

20.04.2006 21:33, Pavel Morozov

From kozheedov material can be saved in the freezer.

21.04.2006 7:23, RippeR

Isn't it strange to hear this from Morozzz lol.gif
Likes: 1

21.04.2006 15:31, Helene

Helene:
maybe not many people do this, the main thing here is an experiment! In these ways, new things are learned. And as for the softness of the material, I can bet that any alcohol makes ethyl acetate in this case smile.gif

Not any alcohol, but ammonia! Which is an ammonia solution! lol.gif When it gets into the tissues, a chemical reaction instantly occurs - protein denaturation. Lethality rate is 100%. By the way, if you accidentally put ammonia in your finger-it will be about the same (local necrosis), most likely you will have to go to the clinic, to the surgeon eek.gif
Ethyl acetate acts on them like anesthesia - they gradually fall asleep in the stain. If it gets directly into the tissues in the form of a liquid, it should act more sharply, but the mechanism is the same. In addition, ethyl acetate has the property of leaking and dissolving fat. Just a little extra injected - and you can fatten the prey? eek.gif
So with ethyl acetate as a lethal injection agent you didn't convince wink.gifme

22.04.2006 0:43, RippeR

In general, there is no difference, except that the smell of ethyl acetate is better, and it is easier to work - there is one substance for everyone..

22.04.2006 19:55, Pavel Morozov

Look, I didn't think you'd get that kind of pun with a freezer. Sometimes, in the country, for example, if there is no suitable poison, then I freeze the material in the freezer. tongue.gif

22.04.2006 21:40, Bad Den

It is good to stab nocturnal butterflies with ammonia-they do not have time to get frayed in the stain. Only use insulin syringes, they have a thinner and sharper needle.

23.04.2006 2:45, Shofffer

Sometimes, in the country, for example, if there is no suitable poison, then I freeze the material in the freezer. tongue.gif

Well, I also use the freezer for soaking.

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