Lycaenidae

But the Pakistani one.

By the way, an excellent example of the topic raised above about color convergence between representatives of different subfamilies: from below, L. kasyapa is a spitting image of Tomares fedtschenkoi (if you don't go into details).

Boris Vitalievich, are you really against the fact that the trends of pattern changes are linked to the general evolution of taxa?

I've been thinking and working on this issue for a very long time. And I came to the conclusion that yes, against. Here is a cladogram created for several genes (both mitochondrial, nuclear, protein-coding, and protein-non-coding). And it turns out that both the Eliot system is bursting at all seams, and linking the trend of changing the pattern with the overall evolution. But the genitals are generally on top. See the Cupidopsis site with its pattern of a typical Cupidina. Look at the genitalia and place in the cladogram (here in the black triangle there are more than 70 taxa of the subfamily from virtually all "sections"). In terms of genitalia and place in the molecular tree, Cupidopsis is located within Theclinae, it is further from Polyommatinae than Lycaeninae and is very close to Miletinae (Spalgis). But the wing pattern is typical for the subtribe Cupidina - and one of the youngest in the subfamily Polyommatinae. And there's no way to explain mimicry - there's nothing like it in Africa. There can only be one explanation - there are several patterns of the pattern sewn into the genome that occurred very, very long ago. And they are implemented regardless of the place of the taxon in the system, for reasons that are not yet clear. And instead of the evolution of the pattern, we can only observe the collapse of systems built on its basis.

This post was edited by bora - 13.12.2014 09: 27

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A strange argument. Pigeons all have the same general wing pattern, and Eliot's pigeon system is based mainly on venation and genitalia. Golubyanki is such a young group that so far only the trends of its future transformations have been outlined in the Krylov drawing, and even then-implicitly, with a huge number of exceptions and inclusions. The use of the wing pattern in this group is productive only at the elementary level, at the super-elementary level its use is already fundamentally wrong : -) .

A strange argument. Pigeons all have the same general wing pattern, and Eliot's pigeon system is based mainly on venation and genitalia. Golubyanki is such a young group that so far only the trends of its future transformations have been outlined in the Krylov drawing, and even then-implicitly, with a huge number of exceptions and inclusions. The use of the wing pattern in this group is productive only at the elementary level, but at the super-elementary level, its use is already fundamentally wrong :-).

And I'm saying the same thing, that the pattern in pigeons is practically not applicable to the system and general evolution.
At the same time, Eliot's system is also quite inadequate. Many of its "sections "are shuffled by composition, combined and make" outliers " to other subfamilies.
By the way, the role of genitals in his system is depressingly small, so only - " Male genitals with abnormal dorsal appendages." Mostly it has aromatic scales, dark stripes below the vein 12, hairy eyes and a mace of antennae. In this context, I am referring to the subfamily Polyommatinae.

This post was edited by bora-12/13/2014 09: 45

Pigeons all have the same general wing pattern plan

That's really it. I'd overlooked that earlier.

Photo © Zdenek Fric

This post was edited by bora - 13.12.2014 15: 20

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There are exceptions everywhere.

There are exceptions everywhere.

And that's true. Complete exceptions.

Photo © Zdenek Fric

This post was edited by bora - 13.12.2014 15: 20

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Your research confirms the idea of parallelism in the variability of animals and plants and fully fits into the main conclusions of Nikolai Ivanovich Vavilov:

"1. Species and genera that are genetically similar are characterized by similar series of hereditary variability with such correctness that, knowing a number of forms within one species, it is possible to predict the presence of parallel forms in other species and genera. The closer the genera and Linneons are genetically located in the general system, the more complete the similarity in the series of their variability.

2. Whole plant families are generally characterized by a certain cycle of variability that runs through all the genera and species that make up the family."

"1. Species and genera that are genetically similar are characterized by similar series of hereditary variability with such correctness that, knowing a number of forms within one species, it is possible to predict the presence of parallel forms in other species and genera. The closer the genera and Linneons are genetically located in the general system, the more complete the similarity in the series of their variability.

Absolutely true! So, relying on the wing pattern, we are very likely to find the place of a particular taxon in the wrong subfamily / tribe / subtribe.

I am puzzling over the definition of Turkish butterflies.
Is this Polyommatus corydonius?
In the Caucasus, this particular color option is not seen. Butterflies are more blue with a faded color of the underparts and white solid fringe.

Can't this be eros? Something similar in my opinion.

I am puzzling over the definition of Turkish butterflies.
Is this Polyommatus corydonius?
In the Caucasus, this particular color option is not seen. Butterflies are more blue with a faded color of the underparts and white solid fringe.

Are they like this?
This is from KCR, Klukhor gorge, 1950 m

Pictures:

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Are they like this?
This is from KCR, Klukhor gorge, 1950 m

Well no. They are different, icon-like, unlike the light Caucasian ones.

By the way, in the Lesser Caucasus I did not see butterflies with white underparts, which are quite common in the Greater Caucasus from Anapa to Samur.
And in the book on Butterflies of Turkey, too, there is no such color option.

This post was edited by Valentinus - 12/13/2014 19: 08

Well no. They are different, icon-like, unlike the light Caucasian ones.

Maybe this one?

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The underside is similar, but the top... The image clearly shows the marginal spots on the upper wings. Mine don't have that. And the range does not cover the north-eastern highlands.

Yes, it looks like ossmar.

I am puzzling over the definition of Turkish butterflies.
Is this Polyommatus corydonius?
In the Caucasus, this particular color option is not seen. Butterflies are more blue with a faded color of the underparts and white solid fringe.

As for me - the form of bellargus. Something similar flies in Van among the darker common bellargus, and with an almost monotonous fringe, butterflies are also found. You definitely do not have a corydonius - there is no characteristic "fluffy" androconial field on the top of the peak.
And ossmar doesn't go that far east, and it doesn't look like it.



This post was edited by lepidopterolog - 12/14/2014 23: 41

A huge icarus-like pigeon described from Hakkari as Polyommatus buzulmavi Carbonell, [1992]. If someone suddenly has a first description, by the way , I'll be happy to read it.
SE Turkey, Hakkâri Prov., Zap valley, 3 km S Hakkâri, 1200 m, 30.V.2014

As for me - the form of bellargus. Something similar flies in Van among the darker common bellargus, and with an almost monotonous fringe, butterflies are also found. You definitely do not have a corydonius - there is no characteristic "fluffy" androconial field on the top of the peak.
And ossmar doesn't go that far west, and it doesn't look like it.

You may be right. Along with them, the brighter, typical bellargus also flew, but these do not have the bright upper color that is so characteristic of the Caucasian P. bellargus.

You may be right. The brighter, more typical bellargus species also flew with them, but they do not have the bright top color that is so characteristic of the Caucasian P. bellargus.

All sorts come across, here is a fairly light one from Armenia.

Subspecies of Plebejus cyane (Eversmann, 1837) are very well traced by the color of the upper and lower wings. In my opinion, the most beautiful South Ural nominative Plebejus cyane cyane.
On the left are the Altai villages of Shebalino, on the right are the South Ural villages from the Orenburg Region.
Where one is from South-West Kazakhstan

More photos of Polyommatus damocles on the right and Polyommatus damone on the left from one point in the Orenburg region.

P.vicrama

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The largest specimen of a male amanda in my collection from the Caucasus is 33 mm in span (the length of the leading edge of the wing is 18 mm).
The one that was in the picture - 36 mm (20mm, respectively).
Who has more?

Returning to the subject of Amanda, yesterday in ZINA, A. L. Lvovsky told me that there is no point in looking at the funds, since he has already measured everything for a long time, and this is reflected on pages 90 and 93 of the book "Bulavous Lepidoptera". Europe". T. mod., front edge length 13-20, wingspan-25-39.

Aricia nicias from the Southern Urals.

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Aricia nicias from the Southern Urals.

Sergey, why are you showing us so much styrofoam?
Your hands are golden...

I crop each frame, but it's one thing to place a large butterfly in the frame, and another thing to place a small one. For a small butterfly, many defects will be visible at once at high magnification. This is purely my opinion.

In the Vashlovansky Nature Reserve, I collected three copies of Tomares romanovi.
I straightened a couple of them.
Look how strange they are. There are no distinctive bright red spots on top.
And spots below on the lower wings of the male with orange scales.
From there Y. P. Nekrutenko described the subspecies - T. romanovi cachetinus, but these butterflies are very different from the description and types.
Has anyone seen this coloring option?

From above, it doesn't look too much like Tomares at all. By the way, the same" mottled " pattern is sometimes found in Hyponephele (I mean mottled on a red field). I've always wondered where it comes from.

Sometimes Tomares has this,some have less, others have more. we have Tomares nogelii (Zaporizhia, Kherson region) from the complete absence of orange scales, to more than 50% orange, there are also such.

It happens with Nogels, I agree, but I haven't seen it with other Tomares.
Probably the same law of homologous series still applies, and this form of coloring can appear in all tomares.

Crimean nogels do not have this, they are all very orange

Yes, I'm not talking about spots (they are variable), but about mottling. Take a closer look at the photo: there is a gray grid pattern (mottled) on the orange margins.

Since no one writes anything serious, I suggest you arrange a small survey on the topic:
My most favorite pigeon.

I chose two:

Polyommatus corydonius.
North Caucasus, Bolshoy Zelenchuk, Chehrak settlement.
6.06.2014 First generation. Male.


Polyommatus dorylas.
North Caucasus, okr. Izgotovnaya stanitsa.
30.05.2014. Female

My favorite type (except fengaris-I love them all):

Stas and in your photos is that the city of marakandikus and not from Nizhny Novgorod whether the pictures???


Голубянка эрос - Polyommatus eros Ochsenheimer, [1808]
(boisduvalii auct., nec (Herrich-Schäffer, [1844]); spp. silvester Korb et Bolshakov, 2011, nom. n. pro orientalis Krzywicki, 1983).
Until recently, one of the most mysterious and poorly studied pigeons of the Penza region...

This post was edited by Penzyak - 22.01.2015 11: 09

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Nizhny Novgorod, yeah. But not maracandicus - this is a regular argus.

Are there any photos of Nizhny Novgorod maracandicus trees and their biotopes?

Biotopes-yes. There are no live butterflies. Collectible items only if photographed.

Another extremely beautiful pigeon of the Caucasus - Kretania sephyrus.
A very variable species, prone to the formation of local ecological and genetic races.

North Caucasus, Daut gorge.
7. 06. 2006

The absolute record for the description of new taxa in the Caucasus among pigeons belongs to Polyommatus coridonius - 8!
Here taxonomists surpassed even poor Parnassians.
The works of Pavel Gorbunov and Boris Stradomsky, who combined "new species" into synonyms, are deeply respected.