Jaundice (Colias)

Here is a series I took on November 10 in the vicinity of Budapest. What do you say?[attachmentid()=187357]

3-rather also crocus - but it is necessary to cook. For the first time in comparison with the reference individuals of neighboring species. If the ductus is the thinnest and sclerotized by half and slightly more-erate (but I have not yet seen such saturated orange females, they are lighter in my case). If wider and sclerotized by 30-40% - croceus. If it is even wider and the sclerotization is short, barely escapes from under 7 sternite, then myrmidon. It can also be dark and completely indistinguishable from croceus.

1. Enlighten... once there was a discussion about collecting lepidoptera for genetics and it was announced... that they say you can not starve butterflies for such studies with ethyl acetate!?? Is this so?

2. And how can we explain that we have for example in PO in the month of August in a sandy pine forest (there is one interesting point-although in others they come across but less often...) on the broom tree, there are so many transitional forms in female myrmidons (just miracles!).... from white, yellow, and orange... to greenish ones... Although the first generation and males and females of the usual color... !??

This post was edited by Penzyak - 15.11.2013 15: 04

1. Enlighten... once there was a discussion about collecting lepidoptera for genetics and it was announced... that they say you can not starve butterflies for such studies with ethyl acetate!?? Is this so?

2. And how can we explain that we have for example in PO in the month of August in a sandy pine forest (there is one interesting point-although in others they come across but less often...) on the broom tree, there are so many transitional forms in female myrmidons (just miracles!).... from white, yellow, and orange... to greenish ones... Although the first generation and males and females of the usual color... !??

1. you can starve with anything. You can use ethyl acetate quickly, you can use sprt slowly...
2.I didn't understand anything. But no one yet pokzal broom as a factor vidoobrazoaniya. It is more plausible to think that in your area there are lines that are sick with bacteria, and there are healthy ones.

1. you can starve with anything. You can use ethyl acetate quickly, you can use sprt slowly...
2.I didn't understand anything. But no one yet pokzal broom as a factor vidoobrazoaniya. It is more plausible to think that in your area there are lines that are sick with bacteria, and there are healthy ones.

can you check the mat-l for bacteria? COI zeroing in the palaeno group is very similar to what Jiggins did.

This post was edited by sergenicko - 11/15/2013 16: 40

can you check the mat-l for bacteria? COI zeroing in the palaeno group is very similar to what Jiggins did.

Yes, there are excellent markers of the presence of wolbachia. And Kristofi is the most "beautiful" species, showing that some of its mtDNA lines originated at the dawn of the evolution of jaundice. And agree-kristoffi is the only type of jaundice, which morphology can not be confused with something else. By the way, you just wrote me an email with doubts about this type.

Kokkandika is generally the most nonsense! According to mtDNA, its position is completely unclear. This is a bunch of heterogeneous lines. Despite the fact that the Mongolian "tamerlane" is identical to the Swedish and South Siberian tiha, it does not show any similarity with kokkandika.

But the problem is that molecular scientists have studied males as the most affordable and cheap to purchase. Females, on the other hand, have DNA lines that are not found in males. In short, the DNA of males in egg yolks reflects the phylogeny of their parasites rather than themselves.

This post was edited by ayc - 15.11.2013 17: 11

2.I didn't understand anything. But no one yet pokzal broom as a factor vidoobrazoaniya. It is more plausible to think that in your area there are lines that are sick with bacteria, and there are healthy ones.

- what exactly does broom have to do with it? It seems that myrmidon at all (in the European part of the Russian Federation I think exactly) develops on broom Russian. I'm talking about the strange" forms "of the second generation of female myrmidons in the pine forest - in the meadow steppe, such "colorful" specimens came across to me very little!??

2.I didn't understand anything. But no one yet pokzal broom as a factor vidoobrazoaniya. It is more plausible to think that in your area there are lines that are sick with bacteria, and there are healthy ones.

- what exactly does broom have to do with it? It seems that myrmidon at all (in the European part of the Russian Federation I think exactly) develops on broom Russian. I'm talking about the strange" forms "of the second generation of female myrmidons in the pine forest - in the meadow steppe, such "colorful" specimens came across to me very little!??

Show us how colorful they are in the photo. or send them for molecular execution...

By the way, like crocea-erate. In North America there is philodice and eurytheme. Both of these "reliable" species differ only in redness of color. And in terms of DNA, it's the same thing - like erate and crocea! That is, the same picture, but on a different continent!

By the way, like crocea-erate. In North America there is philodice and eurytheme. Both of these "reliable" species differ only in redness of color. And in terms of DNA, it's the same thing - like erate and crocea! That is, the same picture, but on a different continent!

but in terms of COI, phulodice and eurytheme seem to differ by about 1.5%. but we do not distinguish Asian tizoa, heos and palaeno by this feature - I did not hear if other molek were searched for between them. differences.

Show us how colorful they are in the photo

http://babochki-kavkaza.ru/index.php/pieri...myrmidone-.html
Not so colorful, but something similar.

but in terms of COI, phulodice and eurytheme seem to differ by about 1.5%. but we do not distinguish Asian tizoa, heos and palaeno by this feature - I did not hear if other molek were searched for between them. differences.

Sergey, I begged you not to comment on your research for at least a couple of months On COI phylodice and eurytheme - they are identical.
By the way, I was doubted by these two species after I caught about 300 butterflies in a day in a meadow in New York State and then spent a year trying to spread them on phylodice and eurytheme. The situation reminded me a lot of Erata and Crocea.

This post was edited by ayc - 15.11.2013 17: 44

Well, I'll try to take a picture and post the series next week. We have a banal myrmidon look - it is not clear why in some areas it is considered rare...

Sergey, I begged you not to comment on your research for at least a couple of months On COI phylodice and eurytheme - they are identical.
By the way, I was doubted by these two species after I caught about 300 butterflies in a day in a meadow in New York State and then spent a year trying to spread them on phylodice and eurytheme. The situation reminded me a lot of Erata and Crocea.

This is not my research, and if you have more precise information, thank you. But one color does not mean anything - there are populations of erata (remote from croceus) in which both colors co-exist. If philodice and eurytheme have no other differences. other than color, why are they considered different types?

Well, I'll try to take a picture and post the series next week. We have a banal myrmidon look - it is not clear why in some areas it is considered rare...

well, what can you do... It doesn't exist in the Urals, nor in Western Europe... and yes, its existence "out of the blue" is a bit of a mystery. Not for me, anyway.

Anton, indeed, eurytheme and philodice do not differ in COI, sorry for the haste. But a certain vitabunda is also no different from them.

well, what can you do... It doesn't exist in the Urals, nor in Western Europe... and yes, its existence "out of the blue" is a bit of a mystery. Not for me, anyway.

Beyond the Urals there are - in the south of the Tyumen and Kurgan regions.

Sergey, forget it-Viscotti is no different from Romanovi for these authors. Yankee-S.

Beyond the Urals there are - in the south of the Tyumen and Kurgan regions.

Well, even if it climbs a little... An interesting area of endemism is obtained.

3-rather also crocus - but it is necessary to cook. For the first time in comparison with the reference individuals of neighboring species. If the ductus is the thinnest and sclerotized by half and slightly more-erate (but I have not yet seen such saturated orange females, they are lighter in my case). If wider and sclerotized by 30-40% - croceus. If it is even wider and the sclerotization is short, barely escapes from under 7 sternite, then myrmidon. It can also be dark and completely indistinguishable from croceus.

I'll definitely cook it.

I'll definitely cook it.

Cooked it ?

Cooked it ?

Coming soon

But no, gene drift is drift. Drift ("offset") This is "the phenomenon of non-directional changes in the frequencies of allelic gene variants in a population due to random statistical reasons." This is exactly what happens in refugiums - in human history, by the way, too, when a "bottleneck" is formed. By definition, gene drift does not occur between populations - it occurs in one isolated population.

Please help me identify the egg yolk

Pictures:

IMAG0198.jpg — (172.9к)


IMAG0197.jpg — (178.35к)

Please help me identify the egg yolk

Colias staudingeri, female.

Who has what opinion is C. tyche or C. nastes?

Collected from: Chukotka Autonomous Okrug, Chukotka District, Lorino village area.
19 and 27.06.2013

Pictures:

DSC07614.JPG — (305.75к)


DSC07615.JPG — (302.1к)


DSC07616.JPG — (328.59к)


DSC07617.JPG — (285.83к)

It seems to be quiet. But it might turn out to be something third or fourth.

Yes, so I wanted to listen to the opinions of different people, but so far silence...

Yes, so I wanted to listen to the opinions of different people, but so far silence...

It looks like tyche. The problem is whether the types of tyche and nastes are different.

Yes, so I wanted to listen to the opinions of different people, but so far silence...

It is unlikely that anyone will argue that this is not tyche, but nastes. The problem is that no one really knows how many species are hidden under these two names-1, 2 or 12

It is unlikely that anyone will argue that this is not tyche, but nastes. The problem is that no one really knows how many species are hidden under these two names-1, 2 or 12

Still confusing are the homonymous American ones, which are usually not quite the same as ours (for example, among the erebians pawloskii).

Yes, so I wanted to listen to the opinions of different people, but so far silence...

Sergey, there was no time to answer. Yes, your pictures show C. tyche kolosovae.

C. nastes dezhnevi from Lorinsky looks like this:


Or so:

One female was cooked. In my opinion, this is not croceus. What are your opinions?

[attachmentid()=189203]
[attachmentid()=189204]

This post was edited by barko - 12/23/2013 16: 54

It is almost identical in appearance to Crocea.
Typical for the Volgograd region late autumn female erata.

One female was cooked. In my opinion, this is not croceus. What are your opinions?

Typical genitalia of a myrmidon (ductus!). Other darkened females are indistinguishable from crocea in appearance, including the spotting of the underparts of PC.

Typical genitalia of a myrmidon (ductus!). Other darkened females are indistinguishable from crocea in appearance, including the spotting of the underparts of the PC.

This is great news. It is believed that myrmidon disappeared from central Hungary for a long time, and in the vicinity of Budapest it was last seen several decades ago.

I continue the topic of Chukchi egg yolks.
I put out two more pairs, maybe there is somewhere nastes viewed, or again both pairs are quiet?

Pictures:

DSC07716.jpg — (297.65к)


DSC07717.jpg — (287.07к)

not... the beautiful ones are so quiet. The underparts are so yellow. The photo of the PG clearly shows the difference in color: nastes does not have such yellowness.

This is great news. It is believed that myrmidon disappeared from central Hungary for a long time, and in the vicinity of Budapest it was last seen several decades ago.

.. and send me her leg, please. According to COI, Myrmidon is easily distinguished from Erata.

... and send me her leg, please. According to COI, Myrmidon is easily distinguished from Erata.

Address?

Sergey, there was no time to answer. Yes, your pictures show C. tyche kolosovae.

C. nastes dezhnevi from Lorinsky looks like this:


Or so:

If you look closely at the photo, in my opinion, the first nastes, I agree, is a darker and more contrasting pattern, and the second is as quiet as all my exposed ones, lighter and less contrasting.