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Jaundice (Colias)

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19.01.2015 10:06, Diogen

This means that we have another far-fetched problem in taxonomy, which obviously needs to be solved by molecular methods.

19.01.2015 10:17, sergenicko

This means that we have another far-fetched problem in taxonomy, which obviously needs to be solved by molecular methods.


I'm still waiting for Chichvarkhin to share his results with the public. In general, the conspecificity of our butterflies with American ones is often problematic - they like to attribute Eurasian species to themselves. I don't really know about the yolks, but their Erebia pawloskii molecular structure is hardly conspecific with ours.

19.01.2015 11:07, Diogen

I'm still waiting for Chichvarkhin to share his results with the public. In general, the conspecificity of our butterflies with American ones is often problematic - they like to attribute Eurasian species to themselves. I don't really know about the yolks, but their Erebia pawloskii molecular structure is hardly conspecific with ours.



As practice shows, one tablet in most cases is simply not enough. We also need morphology - and in the traditional genital key, which has shown its high efficiency for more than a century of use.

19.01.2015 11:31, sergeySVK

Gentlemen - specialists in jaundice, please tell me.
According to the latest trends, what subspecies of C. palaeno flies in the Moscow region (Central Russia) and further to the Urals ?

19.01.2015 11:37, sergenicko

As practice shows, one tablet in most cases is simply not enough. We also need morphology - and in the traditional genital key, which has shown its high efficiency for more than a century of use.


Sure. In young genera (such as Colias), the molecular distances between hypothetically specific taxa are minimal. Among the Colias, as far as I remember, the hyale group (within which the Siberian hyales are located between chiala and alfakariensis), some marginal groups, and "all the others" that form a mess are distinguished by molecular mechanics, partly due to incorrect definitions. As for the paleno, as I recall, there is a big difference between the American "Chippewas" and the Eurasian "paleno" - noticeably larger than between the paleno and other EA species of this group. I do not know what place the Chukchi ones occupy. There is also a completely separate North American group inside COlias.

This post was edited by sergenicko - 30.01.2015 12: 14

30.01.2015 11:03, Геннадий Шембергер

Colias hyale - alfacariensis.

This post was edited by Gennady Shemberger - 11.02.2015 15: 10

Pictures:
picture: DSCN1459.JPG
DSCN1459.JPG — (278.87к)

Likes: 16

14.02.2015 21:13, DavBaz

Greetings from Afghanistan!
Colias shahfuladi -Afghanistan, Hindukush, Band-i-Amir, 3300 m

This post was edited by DavBaz - 14.02.2015 21: 15

Pictures:
picture: _________________.JPG
_________________.JPG — (296.27к)

Likes: 7

14.02.2015 21:49, AGG

Greetings from Afghanistan!

hegase!!! and the year of capture?

14.02.2015 22:18, DavBaz

hegase!!! and the year of capture?


By label 1977

12.08.2015 17:51, alex242

Colias thisoa (Ménétriès, 1832) ssp. aeolides (Grum-Grshimailo, 1890)

Kazakhstan, Dzungarian Alatau, Kora River. Burhan-Bulak waterfall area. ~2120 m. a.s.l.
11.VII.2015
♂ picture: Colias_thisoa_1M0.jpg
♀ picture: Colias_thisoa_1F0.jpg

This post was edited by alex242-12.08.2015 17: 52
Likes: 14

13.08.2015 12:29, sergeySVK

Colias palaeno from the Prioksko-Terrasny Nature Reserve. June 11, 2015.

Pictures:
picture: DSC03303.JPG
DSC03303.JPG — (106.62к)

Likes: 11

28.08.2015 19:34, Nick444444

Is it Colias myrmidone confused.gif???

Pictures:
picture: IMG_8371.jpg
IMG_8371.jpg — (114.92к)

picture: IMG_8386.jpg
IMG_8386.jpg — (75.15к)

Likes: 1

28.08.2015 20:47, okoem

Is it Colias myrmidone confused.gif???

Where's the label?

28.08.2015 20:53, Nick444444

Where's the label?

Sorry, I caught it today, Kharkiv region, Bezlyudovka (28,08,15)

This post was edited by Nick444444 - 28.08.2015 20: 54

28.08.2015 20:54, Nick444444

Where's the label?

Broom trees also grow near the place of capture.

28.08.2015 22:01, Сергей-Д

I thought about hyale.
In many places I saw an abundance of broom without myrmidon (
Likes: 1

28.08.2015 22:10, Nick444444

I thought about hyale.
In many places I saw an abundance of broom without myrmidon (

I've seen the males, but I haven't seen the females. So what is hyale then confused.gif?

28.08.2015 22:13, Nick444444

I thought about hyale.
In many places I saw an abundance of broom without myrmidon (

Pointer to the white form of the female http://molbiol.ru/forums/index.php?showtopic=214195&st=50 (post 82), so I thought it was myrmidone smile.gif/

28.08.2015 23:10, Kharkovbut

I've seen the males, but I haven't seen the females. So what is hyale then confused.gif?
Who is" she", hyale or myrmidone? I.e. whose males did you register there?

C. myrmidone from those parts is historically known, but I did not register it there in the "historical" period, and I also do not know about the finds of other entomologists.

In the picture imho not myrmidon. Most likely, the same C. hyale.
Likes: 1

28.08.2015 23:29, DYNASTES

 

In the picture imho not myrmidon. Most likely, the same C. hyale.


I agree about C. hyale.

Colias myrmidone is quite a local species, especially in the southern and eastern parts of its range in Ukraine

29.08.2015 10:43, hugoUN

Please tell me if the yolks are correctly identified. All caught Novorossia, DPR, Shakhtyorsk.
1-C. crocea (08.2015)
2-C. crocea (05.2015)
3.4-C. alfacariensis (05.2015 caught mating)
5- C.alfacariensis (08.2015)

01.09.2015 10:22, Liparus

Solias myrmidone from Kharkiv region.

21.V.2015
NE Ukraine,Kharkov reg.,near Udyanskaya ZDS. Stantion. 49°53'6.35" N, 36°14'53.78"E

Pictures:
picture: DSCF3741.JPG
DSCF3741.JPG — (296.42к)

Likes: 5

01.09.2015 10:26, Liparus

 
.. I also don't know about the findings of other entomologists.

How unknown? I told you back in May that I caught myrmidone on Bezlyudovka, namely between Udyanskaya station and Bezlyudovka village (closer to Bezlyudovka)!

01.09.2015 12:13, Nick444444

  Solias myrmidone from Kharkiv region.

21.V.2015
NE Ukraine,Kharkov reg.,near Udyanskaya ZDS. Stantion. 49°53'6.35" N, 36°14'53.78"E

Under would still rolleyes.gifbe .

01.09.2015 13:35, vasiliy-feoktistov

I don't remember: maybe I've already posted myrmidone...
Sorry if I repeat myself mol.gif
But I think it is necessary to lay out for the benefit of the case smile.gif
Male and two female forms of Colias myrmidone (Esper, 1781) from the same locality in the Vladimir region.
Geography: Russia, Vladimir region, Petushinsky district, okr., der. Starye Omutischi leg. Feoktistov V. I.
Collection dates in the body of a photograph.
picture: 1.jpg
The view here in Meshchera is very ordinary and therefore there are no problems with it

This post was edited by vasiliy-feoktistov - 01.09.2015 13: 36
Likes: 12

01.09.2015 20:02, Kharkovbut

How unknown? I told you back in May that I caught myrmidone on Bezlyudovka, namely between Udyanskaya station and Bezlyudovka village (closer to Bezlyudovka)!
I remember you saying that you had doubts about the definition. You were going to show me a butterfly or a picture of it. Since you didn't show it to me soon after, I thought that maybe the result was that it wasn't Myrmidon.

But now everything is clear. Very good find, congratulations! The last reliable finds before that, as far as I know, belong to the 80s.

It would be interesting to find the population. Judging by the appearance of this male, as well as the rare occurrence in these fairly well-trodden areas, the population may be somewhere else...
Likes: 1

01.09.2015 20:03, Kharkovbut

I don't remember: maybe I've already posted myrmidone...
Sorry if I repeat myself mol.gif
But I think it is necessary to lay out for the benefit of the case smile.gif
Why does the male have such a thick belly? smile.gif Did you eat well? smile.gif

01.09.2015 20:20, vasiliy-feoktistov

 
It would be interesting to find the population. Judging by the appearance of this male, as well as the rare occurrence in these fairly well-trodden areas, the population may be somewhere else...

We have like: there is broom-there is myrmidon. And if there is no broom, there is no myrmidon smile.gif
In short: where the broom grows there and you need to look: it should be.
Migrations like the species is not famous in contrast to crocea.

Why does the male have such a thick belly? smile.gif Did you eat well? smile.gif

God knows he smile.gifmight have eaten too much smile.gif

This post was edited by vasiliy-feoktistov - 01.09.2015 20: 21

01.09.2015 20:29, Kharkovbut

no broom , no myrmidon smile.gif
That much is clear... I would even say trivial. smile.gif

there is broom-there is myrmidon.
But this inverse theorem seems to be wrong in our region. smile.gif

01.09.2015 21:02, Гена

We (the north-west of the Khmelnitsky region) have broom, not much, in separate bushes, but still occurs, but myrmidon is very rare. About 15 years ago I saw a couple of specimens from these places in the collection, since 2002 I have been here at least a couple of times a season, now I live here constantly, and only this spring I finally collected a single male.
Likes: 1

01.09.2015 21:33, Kharkovbut

We (the north-west of the Khmelnitsky region) have broom, not much, in separate bushes, but still occurs, but myrmidon is very rare. About 15 years ago I saw a couple of specimens from these places in the collection, since 2002 I have been here at least a couple of times a season, now I live here constantly, and only this spring I finally collected a single male.
That's about it, it seems, and we have about the same. This is strange... Really low population density? Or are there still dense populations somewhere (relatively close), from which specimens periodically fly back and forth?

01.09.2015 22:53, Nick444444

That's about it, it seems, and we have about the same. This is strange... Really low population density? Or are there still dense populations somewhere (relatively close), from which specimens periodically fly back and forth?

Passed today in search of mormidona populations. In the west, you can no longer search, the population may be north to Prednoslovaya and east from Bezlyudovka, where I haven't been yet.

01.09.2015 22:55, Nick444444

east of Bezlyudovka, where I haven't been yet.

In the area of railway tracks (on a hill) near the village. I think there you should look wink.giffor .

02.09.2015 8:41, Pavel Morozov

I absolutely agree. The presence of broom-does not necessarily be myrmidon. And for the Moscow region, this is very suitable.
How many times have I seen a broom thicket directly on a fairly large area? Neither in May-June, nor in July-August was myrmidon there. But what can I say, how long ago did you meet myrmidon in a good amount (if at all) in the vicinity and in the PTZ itself?
Once I was advised a place near Kirzhach, where they had previously flown, with words, dozens (platform 158 km). The result is the only fresh male on August 9.

But then on the Nerskaya!

So "discover America" - the presence of a forage plant is a necessary condition, but not at all guaranteed.

02.09.2015 9:27, vasiliy-feoktistov

Well, I don't know who has how. But I know three points in Meshchera with a decent distance from each other where the view is present in good numbers.
1) The well-known "mirmidozyatnik" on Nerskaya Street.
2) The vicinity of the VILLAGE of Beloomut.
3) My land in Omutischi. Where I go constantly since 2012 and where it is stable.
However, these points are united by a couple of factors in addition to broom:
1) All three are located in Meshchera.
2) All three have coniferous forest and sand.
Maybe this is also the reason for the occurrence of myrmidons there? I don't know....

02.09.2015 19:39, Гена

The area is almost full of pine forests on the sands, but as I already wrote, only one specimen was found in 14 seasons.

02.10.2015 17:53, Liparus

Collected in September in the Kharkiv region. yolks about 100 pieces dry on razravilki!
I'll post a photo later...There are Crocea and erate and their hybrids. Caught an orange-colored erate male that mated with a yellow erate female and caught a yellow crocea that mated with a yellow erate female...There were also only a few erate with a border like huale's...In general, as they dry - I'll reset the photo!

02.10.2015 18:06, Liparus

A selection of Crimean egg yolks from different locations. Either crocea or erate... confused.gif

What I meant about hybrids was such as these:

This post was edited by Liparus - 02.10.2015 18: 07

Pictures:
picture: post_11610_1264528039.jpg
post_11610_1264528039.jpg — (119.68к)

02.10.2015 19:42, okoem

Caught an orange-colored erate male that mated with a yellow erate female and caught a yellow crocea that mated with a yellow erate female...

Arthur, how do you tell a female erate from a female crocea?

02.10.2015 19:51, Liparus

Arthur, how do you tell a female erate from a female crocea?

The females were yellow.Or are they different in their spots?

I do not know whether white and orange females belong to crocea or erata.

This post was edited by Liparus - 02.10.2015 19: 53

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