Learn geography!

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04.09.2013 14:41, Seneka

My map is good, but not full of information.

The completeness of the names and boundaries correspond to those used by researchers in the 19th century. From this, we can conclude which region was meant. It is unlikely that he meant the plains and the eastern part, he would probably have written " province "or"district". The south-eastern mountain part remains. Put on the map well-trodden routes at that time or the route of the Staudinger expedition (Through the Altai to Mongolia - he had long expeditions, it is unlikely that he went on the same road twice). If quite hypothetically, then if the species now has a limited range, then it is unlikely that it was ubiquitous in the 19th century, and it is unlikely that it changed biotopic preferences. Discard all areas with uncharacteristic biotopes for that period. We'll get the most likely area of capture.

This post was edited by Seneka - 04.09.2013 14: 48

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06.09.2013 7:57, Yakovlev

The completeness of the names and boundaries correspond to those used by researchers in the 19th century. From this, we can conclude which region was meant. It is unlikely that he meant the plains and the eastern part, he would probably have written " province "or"district". The south-eastern mountain part remains. Put on the map well-trodden routes at that time or the route of the Staudinger expedition (Through the Altai to Mongolia - he had long expeditions, it is unlikely that he went on the same road twice). If quite hypothetically, then if the species now has a limited range, then it is unlikely that it was ubiquitous in the 19th century, and it is unlikely that it changed biotopic preferences. Discard all areas with uncharacteristic biotopes for that period. We'll get the most likely area of capture.

Staudinger wasn't in the Altai, if anything. He spent more and more time in dresden

06.09.2013 11:18, barko

The completeness of the names and boundaries correspond to those used by researchers in the 19th century. From this, we can conclude which region was meant. It is unlikely that he meant the plains and the eastern part, he would probably have written " province "or"district". The south-eastern mountain part remains. Put on the map well-trodden routes at that time or the route of the Staudinger expedition (Through the Altai to Mongolia - he had long expeditions, it is unlikely that he went on the same road twice). If quite hypothetically, then if the species now has a limited range, then it is unlikely that it was ubiquitous in the 19th century, and it is unlikely that it changed biotopic preferences. Discard all areas with uncharacteristic biotopes for that period. We'll get the most likely area of capture.

How was this possible in those days? We got to Mongolia from China, I think there were roads there.

06.09.2013 13:38, Yakovlev

if Albert Kindermann collected, then this is not the territory of the Russian Federation, but the territory of Kazakhstan-more precisely, the ROC. of the small village of Ust-Bukhtarminsk, where poor Kindermann happened not only to visit, but even to spend the winter. Kindermann localities are mostly described in the works of Julius Lederer on Altai. There are descriptions of a considerable number of species. Our article with Volynkin on the complexities of interpretation of some Kindermann taxa is currently being reviewed by reviewers in one of the journals. Staudinger's material was supplied by many, hundreds if not thousands of individuals. It should be understood that Kindermann sold all his material, or rather the vast majority of it (I mean Altai, and not his other trips) to Yu. To Lederer. The Lederer types are perfectly preserved in Berlin and are available to everyone. Some of Kindermann's collections in the Altai were described later, for example, by Staudinger. In general, it is not so difficult to calculate people who caught in ancient times anywhere in the world - although there are exceptions. For Altai, these are Pallas (and his collectors), Kindermann, Haberhauer, the elder Yakobson, Sushkin, Chetverikov, Berezovsky, Sapozhnikov, and various amateur Tomsk comrades

This post was edited by Yakovlev - 06.09.2013 13: 40

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06.09.2013 16:30, barko

if Albert Kindermann collected, then this is not the territory of the Russian Federation, but the territory of Kazakhstan-more precisely, the ROC. of the small village of Ust-Bukhtarminsk, where poor Kindermann happened not only to visit, but even to spend the winter. Kindermann localities are mostly described in the works of Julius Lederer on Altai. There are descriptions of a considerable number of species. Our article with Volynkin on the complexities of interpretation of some Kindermann taxa is currently being reviewed by reviewers in one of the journals. Staudinger's material was supplied by many, hundreds if not thousands of individuals. It should be understood that Kindermann sold all his material, or rather the vast majority of it (I mean Altai, and not his other trips) to Yu. To Lederer. The Lederer types are perfectly preserved in Berlin and are available to everyone. Some of Kindermann's collections in the Altai were described later, for example, by Staudinger. In general, it is not so difficult to calculate people who caught in ancient times anywhere in the world - although there are exceptions. For Altai, these are Pallas (and his collectors), Kindermann, Haberhauer, the elder Yakobson, Sushkin, Chetverikov, Berezovsky, Sapozhnikov, and various amateur Tomsk comrades

Roma, thank you for the information. Yes, Kinderman's materials got to Lederer, but that was much later. I need his period of communication with Freer. when Kindermann moved from Bohemia to Hungary in 1820. In my case, we are talking about the collection of Kinderaman in the Altai produced in the very beginning of the 40s or earlier. Please give me a link to Lederer's work, or best of all, the work itself. Are scoops mentioned in your work with Anton?

This post was edited by barko - 06.09.2013 17: 09

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