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Lepidoptera recognition identifier

Community and ForumWebsite news and updatesLepidoptera recognition identifier

Peter Khramov, 09.09.2014 22:54

First timid steps for fly to the moon.
So the first phase starts with spread specimens and, say, upperside angle shots. The recognition identifier should compare different shots of lepidoptera and ascertain quite well (more or less) if specimens are alike and how much.
For the beginning a set of photos needed to train this software and check its efficiency.
E.g., let's take a species and a few pics of spread specimens upperside view. Then take a couple of species alike and some corresponding images. Then less alike. And absolutely different. In the end we get a dozen or two of various images, different and alike. Then we can start training the software.
Sure there are some species completely identic in appearance, or subspecies which are more different from nominative species than totally different species, and so on. Obviously no magic here. Anyway, this is at least worth trying.
Any thoughts on that, what species to take for a start and pics of which species, different and alike, to use?

All the rest posts on: for your information, new features

Comments

10.09.2014 7:55, Alexander Belousov

It is a good and necessary idea, support! I think we must start with the blues! And how to be a test photo - someone on a white disclaims battened up wings and powerful shadow below. Some chose a neutral gray background, I prefer black. Nodo prog will point to it not to "distracted".Probably will need the correct scheme (or preferred) raspravki for different types. Furthermore, how to be with the wrong color correction? But in any case, for many people, like me - lovers, the program will find at least the way in which to look further!

10.09.2014 12:58, Vasiliy Feoktistov

The idea is necessary. Once I started like: http://molbiol.ru/forums/index.php?showtopic=507513
By the way, there you can inspire us some information.
Later, be sure to add: in my head already a heap namёtok only once before all hands are not getting through.

10.09.2014 13:23, Vasiliy Feoktistov

Let me start by our obvious:
Nymphalis xanthomelasvsNymphalis polychloros(Nymphalidae)
Catocala sponsavsCatocala promissa(Erebidae)
Pheosia tremulavsPheosia gnoma(Notodontidae)
Clostera curtulavsClostera anachoreta(Notodontidae)
This is just an example of the first 4 "without thinking" I do not know is whether the transfer-on .....

10.09.2014 13:33, Vasiliy Feoktistov

NB: to distinguish N. xanthomelas and N. polychloros there is a sign "color leg", but it does not work if the butterfly shot from above (as well as most of the photographers and prefers to shoot).
Continuation of the list should be ......

10.09.2014 13:45, Peter Khramov

Thank you for your feedback. Again. Need a one kind of plus a few varying degrees of similarity to it. All - top view (hello copper-butterfly, yeah). For a start, good to have all been on a homogeneous background. Correction - is unimportant.

10.09.2014 14:02, Vasiliy Feoktistov

While in the head did not come: tired scary. To think in this case it is necessary later. This is me on my own :)

10.09.2014 14:10, Alexandr Zhakov

I do not believe in magic wands, but a fantasy come true :) I think there may be a very minimal robot (in number of species). But dashing the trouble started. From the materials of the site that does not happen. I suggest to try with images from the disc on the day of Eastern Europe.

10.09.2014 14:40, Peter Khramov

If the website content can't be used, no sense to try :--) it's not about the number of species. Alexandr, you think bookish, if there's no data enough then we get a limited selection of species (based on location or taxon or whatever else) which is not necessary here. Think wider, guys! The software should learn to determine the coefficient of the likeness between specimens in different pics (first in similar angle shots). Lots of many things could be got of this sole thing!
1. The software will be determine likeness between images on the website. The more images we got, the better the result.
2. The software will show specimens most alike or different. Or any other else after it calculates all the coefficients.
3. Results will be joined to catalogue selections. E.g., we add a pic and note that was Nymphalidae shot in Spain in July. No need to limit yourselves with only one feature.
That will be awesome. But only if coefficients will be calculated more or less adequately for which we need this very first set of images.
Once again: guys, there are really few limits if the website's well-organized (as against books). "Recognition identifier" doesn't mean at all it admits pics only and doesn't handle any other additional info.

10.09.2014 18:05, Shamil Murtazin

Peter!
First and foremost, the question arises, what are we, the neural network will build and teach her? Probably not.
Then, I think, the most important features of any mark which must be determined. If the configuration of the wings, venation (by the way, for the program may be easier to explain it than a man) and the pattern of the wing.I was just out of ignorance of the algorithm on which it's planned.
By type of - I do not see much of a difference that it is to define.
As a rule acted very much the same ph no shipping - more than three copies straightened in a form not found. This wayCatocala nupta, but there are other similar species.I have one unfolding, even a photo section for the collection did. I can download if necessary.
I suggestSaturnia pavonia: a well distinguished by color pattern, is "something which" unbundling geography.

11.09.2014 2:35, Peter Khramov

First, look at how it can work on algorithms to identify similar images, because it will be possible to draw conclusions about the future development.

11.09.2014 8:35, Alexander Belousov

There are in fact finished the program, he used it long -davno called something like - antiduplikator. The comparison is the location of the image pixels and the search for identical or very similar. When you are betrayed the Old about the size, format, compression, both the pictures and immediately offered to remove the worst option. I chased her through the various cliparts.

11.09.2014 13:26, Vasiliy Feoktistov

Re-read. Fresh view: Utopia (
For example: how to reliably distinguish this program, the two generally similar form:
Pheosia tremulaandPheosia gnoma?
Especially today made a picture and places in which they distinguish between my eyes marked with red crosses:

11.09.2014 14:48, Peter Khramov

Regarding the final bend - per-pixel comparison of the floor, of course, not exactly. But not the essence. Basil, a utopia - what? 100% true definition of a butterfly on the image on the machine for a second? Yes, a utopia. And?

11.09.2014 14:57, Vasiliy Feoktistov

Yes it is, I mean, she recognizes it :) Especially if the pictures of nature, or lёtany copies. ? In my opinion, really better to do, well, something like a gallery, or what? With such napodobii pictures here or where indicated by 99.9% right here are the differences here. Compare has eyes that still do not belong to the car :)

11.09.2014 16:34, Peter Khramov

Basil, you're serious or pretending? That I can not believe, seriously ...

11.09.2014 16:50, Vasiliy Feoktistov

Yes, I did "joker" is difficult to understand me .... :) Well, well good luck in this endeavor. And as collector materials provided :)

11.09.2014 23:53, Peter Khramov

Vasily, as for kidding, I meant you could appreciate benefit of this quite a tool used together with others on the website which is not some magic medicine. No one says it's possible to ID species with only wingspan info but it's real to reduce selection of species 10 times less (sometimes even more). Same with IDs by pic.

12.09.2014 17:41, Shamil Murtazin

Petr, as for pics I offered above.
As for the very algorithm, ready to chat about that in details after the recognition engine is defined.
The subject gonna be interesting. So you do integrate that and we'll get it better aftertime ;)

12.09.2014 19:52, Peter Khramov

So we'll do.

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